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Physical, digital or streaming?


Physical, Digital or streaming?   

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  1. 1. Physical digital or streaming?


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I've been leaning more towards digital lately. Most of the games I play these days are the smaller ones that are digital only. And I don't have to wake the cat to get up and change discs when I want to play something different. It's also nice with the Switch to not have to carry around a bunch of game cards if I ever decide to actually take it somewhere.

 

I'm not sure I spend enough time playing modern games for a streaming service to be worthwhile, unless the price point was pretty low. You know how your ten or so most recently played games show up on the PS4 home screen? I haven't played some of the games that show up on mine in nearly two years.

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On 7/8/2019 at 8:06 PM, Galactus said:

I can't believe there is actually someone on AA ripping on Linux. 

Yeah, well I actually used Linux and liked it.  It's not the OS I have a problem with (It's great especially for batch processing) but the ideology that comes long with the FOSS philosophy.  Again nothing wrong with FOSS itself but with the way the neckbeards with anything that's not "free".  It's just a computer platform, not a bloody religion.

 

TBH, I cared a lot about that stuff in my 20's but then had to grow the F' up because of more important things in life besides petty online arguments.

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3 hours ago, MrMaddog said:

TBH, I cared a lot about that stuff in my 20's but then had to grow the F' up because of more important things in life besides petty online arguments.

 

It was near feverous religion-like experience for me in and just prior to the dot-com era. Everything ABSOLUTELY had to be my way with my OS of choice. Everything else was inferior & retarded or didn't exist.

 

Today it is much different. I use the OS that supports the needs I have and programs that I choose to use. That means iOS for mobile handheld and tablet. And Windows on desktop. It could just as easily be anything else depending upon what the platform offers.

 

Well it is in a way. I use Amiga Workbench 1.2 and 1.3, DOS 3.3 and ProDOS, and AtariDOS when doing classic computing, if that counts.

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The Chicken Little arguement against digital is amusing.  I've been on PC digital (starting with Steam) since 2005 and console digital (starting with XBox Live) since 2010.  I've not lost access to any games I've bought digitally.

 

I know there's a handful of games that have been pulled digitally (out of the many thousands you can choose from), but the ones I know of were digital only, so yeah...

 

Now, losing access to the ability to play games-as-service games because the developer shuts down the servers, that's maybe something to be concerned about.  But that affects physical and digital copies equally.

 

If you like buying and collecting physical, that's awesome, there are plenty of advantages to that.  But the sky is not falling, last I checked.

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13 minutes ago, Agamon said:

The Chicken Little arguement against digital is amusing.  I've been on PC digital (starting with Steam) since 2005 and console digital (starting with XBox Live) since 2010.  I've not lost access to any games I've bought digitally.

I wonder if the people who are the most concerned about this are not big game buyers? A plague of digital locusts could eat up half of my collection accumulation hoard and I probably wouldn't even notice for a while. Once someone gets over the "oh no what happens if I put money into something and lose control over it" feeling, the rest will follow, at least in my experience. For me, it took Apple putting (music and movies) purchases in the cloud so I didn't have to back everything up religiously or burn it all to discs. By the time the iOS11 64-bitpocalypse happened, I embraced the idea that if something isn't getting developer support, it's pretty much dead anyway. That's How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Digital. 

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Yeah, for me personally, games are an experience, like meals or travelling.  I don't need to hold something in my hand when I finish it to feel fullfilled. Millage may vary, I understand the collector mentality, I used to collect comics when I was younger.

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Aren't there already some digital gaming services that have shut down and people lost their content?  Personally I like physical content, but mainly because the content providers are greedy and are loving the fact that they can sell digital games for the same price as physical media, with the end user having considerably fewer rights as far as what they can do with that content.  This goes for movies, music, and software as well.  I'm quite perturbed that many companies have gone to a yearly software license for applications (at least on computers, not so much on phones yet). 

 

At least with physical media, I can sell the game to someone else when I'm done with it. Or simply give it to someone, even.  I don't expect physical media to be around much longer, it's definitely in the publishers' best interests to do away with physical media as quickly as they can.

 

 ..Al

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Physical for me, for three reasons:

1. Console ecosystems vanish quickly after the next generation comes out, making downloading/playing a game you bought difficult or impossible.

2. Digital releases are the same price as physical. That $60 came about because of the PHYSICAL cost of making the game... I refuse to pay that for digital copies.

3. Generally, you don't really own digital releases. All it takes is the store pulling it and you are SOL.

That said, I do buy stuff on Steam and iOS. Mainly because those platforms are not linked to aging hardware.

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34 minutes ago, Albert said:

I don't expect physical media to be around much longer, it's definitely in the publishers' best interests to do away with physical media as quickly as they can.

I think many of us on this forum are old enough to remember when things shifted from "seeing a movie" to "buying a movie." I was a big collector/hoarder of DVDs when they first came out, because at last, we could own nice perfect durable copies of films. No super-overpriced, flimsy VHS tape, and certainly not the very expensive original film stock, but arguably something even better -- almost instant random access to anywhere in the video! 

 

Even before that, catching something on TV meant appointment viewing, or an expensive, somewhat-complicated VCR setting ritual. 

 

Having access to all that on demand is pretty awesome, even if entertainment and software companies want to make a buck off of us coming and going. But once someone has an entitlement (in this case, "owning" a piece of physical media, even if it says ONLY A LICENSE all over it), it's super hard to take it away!

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There is no chicken little on consoles and handheld devices for old games, that's fact, hard painful cold fact.  The PC though no, thank Steam in how they handled it (and GoG too) they just keep the updates cranking so as a new OS comes out or a new incompatible X or Y part they run fixes, patches and tweaks live to the games, or as a blown up DOT on GoG so you can re-download your fresh installer to get around that.  They've been online over a decade and OS's have changed much in that time yet the stuff works.

 

Now look at and I'll pick on Nintendo as it's easy, the pre-NNID network that the Wii and DSi used.  Good luck getting your games back, good luck buying more games on that, or getting updates (at least by the intended above board means) as it's dead and shut tight, even those who had points and forgot had their money invalidated when they wiped those too not all that long ago.  The demon is there, and it's beyond gaming, remember the court case ironically about Orwells 1984 for the Amazon Kindle?  They lose the license, and then send a pulse out to every Kindle at the time attached to wifi to ERASE the book you paid for, which they got sued for and lost too.

 

Using Steam as a prop to insult those worried about the issue is a crap argument because shut outs have happened, even I'm a victim of it as I had back in the PSP days an old pre-android/ios phone that had a few Sony games on there, derivatives of PSP stuff (Loco Roco Mobile being one) and when Sony chose to no longer support the game, despite the network being active for another year or so after, I was told I couldn't re-download what I paid for, nor could I get a refund either, so effectively my 'purchase' was gone as was what I supposedly paid for.  A good reason at least why you see me go on about digital as rentals, because damnit, they are.  You're renting time.

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Re Wii -- is that so very different from the scarcity of certain physical games? My Wii is working just fine, and if/when it dies, I'll play pir8 versions on my PC if I still care about them (which is a little less likely with every year that passes). I was perfectly happy to pay $20 for Xenoblade Chronicles from the digital store instead of $150 to some ebay scalper for a spinning disc. 

 

Your telling of the Amazon 1984 isn't the whole truth. Amazon didn't have the rights to the thing they were distributing. It's not like they "lost" the license. They refunded everyone's money, and apologized saying it would never happen again. Yes there was a lawsuit, and they gave everyone the choice of getting their ebook back, or $30. There couldn't be a more perfect book title for this to happen to, though. 

 

The older I get, the more I feel like I'm just living on borrowed time. Nothing is "permanent," least of all electronic 1s and 0s, no matter what media it's written on. 

 

Painful, cold fact, or Chicken Little? Obviously it causes you more pain than it does for others.

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I've had my copy of Civ 4 for 14 years, I don't want to know what the overdue fees are on that rental...

 

Like I said, I know there are a hadful of examples that this has happened, but that's out of literally thousands of games.  Statisitically, you're probably more likely to get hit by a car crossing the street than lose a digital game (from a non-shady supplier).

 

It's always possible, sure, but it's also possible that my physical copy is lost or damaged and I lose that, too...

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4 hours ago, Lord Thag said:

2. Digital releases are the same price as physical. That $60 came about because of the PHYSICAL cost of making the game... I refuse to pay that for digital copies.

Manufacturing a CD/DVD/BluRay costs next to nothing, especially taken as part of the cost of a piece of software. Most of the cost of a game (at least a big AAA game) is paying the salaries of the hundreds of people who spent a year or more developing it (and the executives who took credit for it).

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I'm for physical, but for sheer ease, digital is the way to go. The thing is this: give me an assurance that no matter what, if I erase my games, that the publisher provide me with my games again. Database, receipts on either end, soooo many ways to do it yet so far  who does?  

 

And as always, they can manufacture some physical copied for those who want them...collectors, essentially.

 

And streaming can be for the people who could not care less about the debate entirely.

 

The only people who truly lose out are retro games resellers. And that's shitty, but oh well.  Everything eventually moves on.

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11 minutes ago, KaeruYojimbo said:

Manufacturing a CD/DVD/BluRay costs next to nothing, especially taken as part of the cost of a piece of software. Most of the cost of a game (at least a big AAA game) is paying the salaries of the hundreds of people who spent a year or more developing it (and the executives who took credit for it).

It's still a significant cost that they aren't incurring with digital distribution.  It's not as simple as just slapping the movie onto a DVD or Blu-Ray.  These discs have to be authored, artists and designers will need to be involved for the menus, artwork, packaging, there's typically extra content put together for the disc, and so forth.  Yeah, the discs aren't expensive to produce once all that work is done, but it's not nothing.  Then you have warehousing and physical distribution as well, which are additional costs not incurred with digital media. 

 

 ..Al

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1 hour ago, Albert said:

It's still a significant cost that they aren't incurring with digital distribution.  It's not as simple as just slapping the movie onto a DVD or Blu-Ray.  These discs have to be authored, artists and designers will need to be involved for the menus, artwork, packaging, there's typically extra content put together for the disc, and so forth.  Yeah, the discs aren't expensive to produce once all that work is done, but it's not nothing.  Then you have warehousing and physical distribution as well, which are additional costs not incurred with digital media. 

 

 ..Al

I was focusing on games, not movies. But I admit, I oversimplified. I don't work in the industry, and I freely admit that I'm mostly talking out of my ass. The post I originally quoted emphasized the "PHYSICAL cost of making the game" as being the reason a new release on disc costs $60 and the point I was trying to make is that most of that cost is what has to happen to get the game to the point where it can be sold, costs that are the same regardless of whether that game is sold as a physical or digital copy.

 

EDIT: As I think about it more, retailer markup is also a piece of that $60 price tag, but I don't know if a console's online store is any different than Wal-Mart or Gamestop to a third party developer.

 

One day I'll learn my lesson and just keep my mouth shut when I don't know what I'm talking about.

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A mixture of both here. I like having the physical media as i am a tactile person (plus i like the deals where it is much cheaper new than the digital release), but i find i'm more inclined to play something more if i haven't got to get up off my arse and put it in the console, i'm also lazy. So i usually end up also buying the digital version when it goes on sale.

 

Streaming games? nah. Also we don't really have any streaming games services in Australia.

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If I have the option, I'll go physical. It's nice to hold something in your hands and not just have your physical money disappear into digital content. Besides that there are usually limitations on digital copies, like only being able to have them on so many different platforms, requiring an internet connection despite already having the full game, etc. Even if those aren't an issue, the simple fact that console companies keep trying to kill off the second-hand games market is a sore spot for me. I like being able to trade disks with others, something digital copies deprive us of.
If I don't have the option, digital is fine. I own several digital games because the physical version was simply too difficult or too expensive to acquire. It's also the most reasonable way to share indie/homebrew games (my games.niche website is all digital only for this reason, no cost for media overhead). I was tempted to select "don't care" because if digital is the cheapest/easiest/only way to get a game, it's perfectly fine.
Streaming? I think you'll have a hard time finding anyone who's excited to stream games, unless they work for google stadia. One possible reason is that streaming a game makes it feel like you don't own it at all, but that's just speculation.

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7 hours ago, KaeruYojimbo said:

..costs that are the same regardless of whether that game is sold as a physical or digital copy.

 

EDIT: As I think about it more, retailer markup is also a piece of that $60 price tag, but I don't know if a console's online store is any different than Wal-Mart or Gamestop to a third party developer.

 

I would guess that digital on-line stores have some sort of IT cost associated with servers and storage and whatnot. They just don't assemble themselves in gramma's basement from your leftover gaming hardware.

 

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Both you (Agamon and Flojo) are just making jokes and ignoring the issue because you personally do not care and would rather ignore the reality and legal aspect of it, that's fine.  But to get snarking and disrespectful about it shows you don't take things serious and shouldn't be taken seriously either.


Albert there asked about any drawbacks, specifically asking about lost content from shut downs, so I pointed them out.  They are valid problems and they did in fact happen.  I also was clear in saying for a legal means for continued use as well, but 'tee hee' I'll pirate it was the response.  Yeah, that's fine and all, hell I probably would do that too, but it's still a shut out legally speaking at least whether you want to dismiss and mock that point it doesn't change it.

 

Sure is true a real copy of the game could get stolen/go missing, but since there are more out there that can be legally bought on the second hand market (price obviously could be an issue in our toxic environment now) the choice is there, and with digital, unless someone decides to resurrect the dead legally (like GoG does plenty for PC) is not the case.  I've had my talkie boxed set of Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis since 1992 when it came out, so yeah I'm not blocked from using it, there are means I can use (dos box) or get it pre-set from GoG so I get that Civ4 comment, it works.

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13 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Both you (Agamon and Flojo) are just making jokes and ignoring the issue because you personally do not care and would rather ignore the reality and legal aspect of it, that's fine.  But to get snarking and disrespectful about it shows you don't take things serious and shouldn't be taken seriously either.

Disrespectful to whom?

 

Again, serious question: what is to be gained by complaining about the loss of old business models? I used to shark around physical bargain bins for old games at places like Blockbuster and Toys R Us. The stores are gone now, and I can get that stuff elsewhere, thanks to improvements in distribution. I've adapted my behavior and I get my entertainment from sources that provide me entertainment, which also happens to support the people who make the stuff I enjoy. 

 

What manner of "preservation" do people expect for modern games? Full archives of ROM sets like we see for cartridge systems? Maybe that will be possible as storage capacity and network speeds increase. Maybe not ... it's not as if the old publishers wanted or expected that to happen with cartridge and CD games. 

 

Whining about change in forums won't change the facts. If you're aging out of the target audience that consumes a lot of this stuff, you're not going to make a big difference by not buying stuff anyway. I don't really care if you don't take me seriously, but to put yourself on a pedestal as having the only valid opinion is delusional. 

 

I have the same "talkie" Indy Atlantis game in multiple formats, and it's one of my favorite games. When I go back to revisit it every increasingly-less-often, I click on the GOG version I bought a few years ago, I don't bust out a disk and a vintage OS. Are you going to tell me I'm wrong for doing that? 

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I'll calling you wrong for repeatedly attacking people who don't agree with you that physical media still has true value and is the safer format.  That Loco Roco example I used, it lasted all of a year or a little bit more before I had it taken when my phone failed and was replaced and Sony decided they didn't want it around anymore.  I also have both the PSP Loco Roco games, they're now over a decade old and I won't have those taken from me because of the change of the winds.  That is a fair argument to make irregardless if someone feels that instant click easy access digital is superior and easier to manage.  Ease and less wasted space has a price of a rental prospect whether someone cares to enjoy that reality or not.  So people like myself and others who prefer physical have valid arguments that go beyond to clinging to last generation stuff as things can get jerked at any time.  I gave examples, another would be when not long after hitting the Wii VC the TMNT titles got revoked and never replaced as Ubisoft snaked the game license from Konami.  Sure if you bought it already then you were fine until they killed their network, which falls to that older argument I wrote, but it also cut off future legal access since to those titles.  This isn't an aging issue when relevant games being sold in a current generation if not the same year or couple of years from release get pulled.

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  • 2 weeks later...

If I'm buying (paying money that is) it's going to be physical. No problem with digital, but as you don't technically own anything (and many services repeatedly and regularly throw that fact in your face) I just see little reason to pay.

 

Streaming simply doesn't work, and I don't see that happening in a reasonable timeline to be relevant to me.

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