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What years would you say generally cover retro gaming for home consoles??

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2 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

It just occurred to me that PS2 could be a tipping point for another reason -- hard drives (or similar large onboard storage device). PS2 was the inflection point for that technology. You could buy an add-on for the PS2 for Final Fantasy XI (and pretty much nothing else). 

 

No other games console before that had a large capacity storage device. Just about every games console that came afterwards had one. 

 

Let's say "large" = 500MB or more

Well put. You could also include the fact that the PS2 was the first system that you could play online with.

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2 minutes ago, bigfriendly said:

Well put. You could also include the fact that the PS2 was the first system that you could play online with.

 

Maybe PS2 was the first with an Ethernet adapter (though I think that was Dreamcast). 

There were modem services for Atari 2600, Sega Genesis, Super Nintendo, Sega Saturn, and Sega Dreamcast, and possibly others I can't remember. 

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dreamcast was online before ps2 was on sale, but in general anything that gen onward is not retro to me, heck they were still making brand new games for the thing up till 2014ish and you could buy new games at walmart a few years ago

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

It just occurred to me that PS2 could be a tipping point for another reason -- hard drives (or similar large onboard storage device). PS2 was the inflection point for that technology. You could buy an add-on for the PS2 for Final Fantasy XI (and pretty much nothing else). 

 

No other games console before that had a large capacity storage device. Just about every games console that came afterwards had one. 

 

Let's say "large" = 500MB or more

As I was reading this, that was my line of thinking. I think there is something to be said for there being a tipping point when systems started including a HD (at least as an option), USB ports, more and more off the shelf PC parts, etc. Okay, the GC is a bit of an odd ball, but at least it was built around and AMD/PPC architecture. The PS2 has weird chips, but it can take a HD and has USB ports. The original Xbox was mostly built from off the shelf PC parts, and if I am recalling things correctly, the controller port are just custom USB ports.

 

I could easily go with the four categories that KaeruYojimbo spelled out in an earlier post, and some further break down by HoshiChiri as merit too.

 

The Dreamcast is a bit hard to pin down. It was the first console that I could remember were 3D starting looking decent, and it was the first with built in online capabilities (while rare, there was a broadband adapter for it that could be used in place of the modem).

 

"Tipping point" is a grey area though, and there are reasons that several alternatives could be justified. In ten years, a tipping point might be the end of physical media, though I think up and coming efforts to stream games on a more regular basis is going to be pretty rough around the edges, and we might see physical media for big games for awhile.

Edited by cybercylon
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We’re (mostly) all old sumbitches seeing pictures in the clouds here in this thread, and there’s nothing wrong with that, but really it’s just a lot more simple than most of us want to accept: “Retro” is whatever someone has nostalgia for.

 

I work with folks from their mid-20’s through their late 70’s. We chat a lot while we work. A lot folks older than me like to collect the dolls, board games or whatever they had and enjoyed as kids. They work on the same cars or old radios or whatever that they worked on as teenagers. They run ham radio like their dads did and which they did as teenagers. The fix old tractors, collect gumball machines or whatever. At the other end of the scale, one of my bosses is mid/late 30’s and he obsessively collects boxed Sega Saturn and Dreamcast stuff because that’s what he grew up with. The younger ones all start talking about how much they love old XBox games they had as kids (and boy doesn’t *THAT* shit make me feel old!).

 

So yeah, it’s pretty obvious if you step back and stop personalizing it for yourself that objectively, people pine for what they had and loved during formative periods (usually childhood or early adulthood). That is and what will always feel “retro” to him or her. 

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4 hours ago, HoshiChiri said:

Mostly agreed here- multiple eras break things up better. Although I personally add an extra era in from 1977-1983/1985 (depending on how American you wanna break it down). The arrival of the NES had a notable effect on the gaming landscape, plus it's also the beginning of composite input & D-pad controllers being standard on basically everything. I guess you'd call it the neo-classic era? I typically call the 70's stuff vintage, and the 83/85 on is classic/neo-classic/modern. I usually start Modern closer to 2005 too- it lines up better with the online storefront, which is when online play really took off.

You have a point, but I lean towards considering Pre-Crash and Post-Crash (or Classic and Neo-Classic or whatever we want to call them) as subdivisions of the same era. There are some upgrades and changes in the way the industry is run, but by-and-large consoles all still load games from a ROM cartridge, display 2-D graphics using sprites and tiles, lack any significant built-in storage or system software and are used exclusively for playing video games. I put the beginning of the Modern age at 2000 because I don't see online play as the major determiner of what makes a game console "modern." I'd say that 3-D graphics and multimedia capabilities are more of a factor in that.

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I like the year 2000 cutoff.  That's about when consoles started going more toward the multi-media end of things.  Systems before then, for the most part, were for playing games.  Systems after that, for the most part, were about playing games AND all the other stuff.  There are people who, 90% of the time they are on their Xbox One, it is on Netflix.  At that point, is it still a game system?

 

But anyway, pre-2000 is retro for me.  Post-2000 is modern.  Pretty much in line with the "What have you actually played" threads.  😃

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Posted (edited)

I think we're ready to get past the "retro or modern" labelling, previous poster has tried to split it into categories, I think something a little more broad reaching and long lasting could be something like this:

 

Antique: Early pinball, redemption games, pre-WW2 arcade games etc. While not video games as such, and certainly not home systems they represent anything that is considerably rare and old enough to be a specialist purchase. You probably have to go to an expert to get these restored/repaired - or be a strong enthusiast yourself.

Vintage: Electromechanical arcade machines in the 60's and 70's, and anything that uses RF signal. My logic is this: As a child I knew about tuning in stations to get systems to work, it was just something I needed to do to get it to work, kids these days don't need this, they'd have to have "special" knowledge to get a system working. Vintage systems and machines is not the purchase of the casual user, if you are buying this kind of stuff, you want to keep / play it out of a genuine interest or collection building.

Retro: My logic for using this word is below. This is for the NES, Master System, Mega Drive, SNES, PS1 and the Turbografx - these have (or about to have) mini/classic versions which is intended as nostalgia. Most people who buy the original consoles too at this point do it for nostalgia (I've sold plenty of consoles to people who aren't collectors, but rather people around my age who wants to play the old games again in the way they remember). Although Saturn / N64 doesn't have classic versions, I think they still fit into this category.

Pre-Modern: I find it hard to label what PS2 and Dreamcast should be in, its a common problem I think so this category is for them.

Modern: Last gen and current gen, PS3 and 360 still have some services so I think they should be still counted in this.

 

My logic on the wording is this:

 

Antique: Usually left for things that is a 100 years old, its not always so strictly applied. Video games is not 100 years old yet, but early arcade and pinball machines are - and they exist as precursors to the home systems. On wikipedia it is described as: "is an item perceived as having value because of its aesthetic or historical significance" and " is usually an item that is collected or desirable because of its age, beauty, rarity, condition, utility, personal emotional connection, and/or other unique features. It is an object that represents a previous era or time period in human history."

 

Vintage: Immediately after wikipedia's definition of antique it has: "Vintage and collectible are used to describe items that are old, but do not meet the 100-year criteria.". The use of the word vintage for objects is relatively modern, and there is debate about how old something should be before it classifies. Most say at least 20 years, which would easily match the kind of consoles that I included. I think Vintage also helps to suggest that there is some degree of interest / knowledge that is now deemed specialised. Remember, we're all getting older!

 

Retro: The use of the word retro now has many uses, but in most other forms outside video games retro usually means a quite specific style, or use. I think we need to get out of the use of the word retro to mean a broad range of non-modern games as there is certainly a variety and history we can now explore. Retro in the designer / interior world tends to mean anything from 1950's to 1980's, but its more than that - its the idea of it being functional and chosen by design in a modern period. Take the guy in the UK who lives in the 1940s styled house and hosts school trips - he lives retro despite the fact he could clearly have a flatscreen tv, a microwave and wifi. He chooses not to. Similarly, nostalgia is flooding the market with mini/classic machines. This isn't particularly for the collector or enthusiast, we feel its too limited with "only" 20-40-60-100 games, but rather for the casual players or prior gamers who say things like "oh man do you remember sonic the hedgehog!!!".

 

Pre-Modern: Ahaha, I think this is pretty much the "whatever is left" category. I think I too struggled with the PS2 period, it was quite instrumental time for the gaming industry, not just the PS2 but the other consoles too. Dreamcast had functional internet use, PS2 had DVD playback, X Box had... whatever it had and Gamecube had loads of accessories. I think Wii probably fits here too now, as its services is now completely dead.

 

Modern: The average user has these, they double up as home entertainment machines. In fact, like mine, they are probably used MORE for watching TV than playing games. PS3 is a cheap blu ray player, X Box One's is for kids playing fortnite, which ever console you have, you or someone else in the house probably use YouTube or amazon or netflix on it.

Edited by Mikebloke

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Retro - Built in or Cartridge

Modern  - CD or Direct Download

 

For years

Retro: <2000

Modern: 2000 +

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On 7/3/2019 at 11:00 AM, KaeruYojimbo said:

1972-1976: Pre-Classic (Odyssey, dedicated consoles)

1977-1994: Classic (games on cartridge, 2-D graphics)

1995-1999: Transitional (move to discs and 3-D graphics)

2000-Now: Modern (multimedia consoles, online play)

 

In another few years what's considered "modern" will change and games from 2000-2XXX will be looked back at as "Pre-Immersive" or something by all the kids with their VR goggles.

That's pretty much close to how I classify gaming eras...

 

1st generation is Vintage with games like Pong which can't be emulated normally and usually require more than one player.

 

2nd generation is Classic with the Pre-Crash systems (as definied by the r.g.v.c. newsgroup in the 90's).  In fact the Crash is also a major barrier between generations (X & Y) who started with 8-bit games.

 

3rd and 4th generation is Retro a.k.a. the Post-Crash era (8 & 16 bit) and is the most popular period on the Internet.

 

The 5th generation is Transitional because while we had rudimentary 3D games on the Playstation & N64, there were still good 2D games on the Saturn & Jaguar.

 

The Modern era would be 6th gernation and onward because that's when all the games had accerlated 3D graphics and current game genres well established.  The only difference between the generations is the game resoultions (480p, 720p, 1080p and 4K).

 

 

 

 

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21 hours ago, MrMaddog said:

That's pretty much close to how I classify gaming eras...

 

This is a good solution; the biggest problem with organizing or classifying systems by year is the longevity of some systems, e.g. the 2600 was first released in 1977 and it received at least minimal support through the early-1990s. Chronologically, it crossed several generations and it was (at least technically) competing in the marketplace with everything from the the Studio II and Channel F through the Genesis and the SNES.  

 

I really like the phrase "Transitional" to describe the Playstation (and similar systems); they are not really Retro, but they are certainly not Modern, either.  

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