Atari 8-Bit Graphics Capabilities

[Synthpopalooza]

There was also this render of a sample screen from Rainbow Islands.  In this case we have a 14 color Antic 4 mode.  The flickering was not real bad here apparently.

 

 

[+CharlieChaplin]

The pics are named RGB9, because they use Gr. 9 (not 11), one picture should use 16 red tones (R), the next 16 green tones (G) and the last one 16 blue tones (B). The problem I see, why the pics look so bad on PAL machines is that Jeff Potter (JP) used a fixed NTSC colour palette for both Apacview and Jview (and several of his other picture converters). If I remember correctly, the A8 has in its NTSC palette two red tones (in 8 or 16 luminances), whereas PAL has 1 brown tone and one red tone at that place (in 8 or 16 luminances). So, if JP used the NTSC red tone in his Apacview or Jview palette that's actually a brown tone on PAL, this would explain why the RGB pictures look so bad on PAL (no red available). Unsure, why the RGB15 pics look so much better in comparison, since they should have the same (palette) problem as the RGB9 pics...

 

In Apacview JP used an external palette (named Apacdat.OBJ on my image, length 33 sectors), in ILBMRead he also used an external palette (named IFFdat.OBJ on my image, same palette, length 33 sectors), but it seems that the palette is internal in JView and Colrview. Would be nice to get these converters with PAL palettes or a program that checks if a PAL or NTSC system is there and then sets the appropriate palette, but I know that will never happen (only in my dreams), so I have to live with it. Attached are some of the Graphic converters I used in the past, including Apacview, Jview, Colrview and several others...

 

And errm, allthough the uploaded A8 RGB pictures look quite pale, the original pictures were not pale at all, quite the opposite, they were very colourful and had rich colours (Nintendo-style). Maybe I can find them again and post some examples... 

 

grtools.zip

Edited July 22, 2019 by CharlieChaplin

[PixelCrunch]

Sorry for the massive Necro, but I’m in need of another answer…

How many video layers does the Atari 8-Bit Series have? How many layers of graphics can there be on the GTIA chip? (Example: the NES has just one background layer.).

[zzip]

20 hours ago, PixelCrunch said:

Sorry for the massive Necro, but I’m in need of another answer…

How many video layers does the Atari 8-Bit Series have? How many layers of graphics can there be on the GTIA chip? (Example: the NES has just one background layer.).

on the 8-bit, you have the background, and each Player/Missile kind of exists as its own layer.  but they are small sprites.

[+MrFish]

1 hour ago, zzip said:

...but they are small sprites.

 

Depends on the width you choose.

 

And the height is the entire height of the screen, which I wouldn't call small.

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by MrFish

[zzip]

Just now, MrFish said:

 

Depends on the width you choose.

 

True,  but still 8-bits wide (and as tall as the screen),  just depends on how wide you want those bits to be :)

[+MrFish]

Just now, zzip said:

True,  but still 8-bits wide (and as tall as the screen),  just depends on how wide you want those bits to be

 

Yes, if you need single-width mode, then it's fairly narrow (relatively speaking); but there are many applications where various other widths are useful.

 

[PixelCrunch]

1 hour ago, zzip said:

on the 8-bit, you have the background, and each Player/Missile kind of exists as its own layer.  but they are small sprites.

Are there multiple Background layers?

[+MrFish]

8 minutes ago, zzip said:

True,  but still 8-bits wide (and as tall as the screen),  just depends on how wide you want those bits to be

Technically, you have (8 bits) x 4 players + (2 bits) x 4 missiles; for a total of 8 individual sprites or layers.

 

[+MrFish]

2 minutes ago, PixelCrunch said:

Are there multiple Background layers?

 

To a certain extent, yes; because sprites (pmg's) can exist between the background and foreground (playfield) graphics. So, you could say they're separate layers.

 

[zzip]

9 minutes ago, MrFish said:

Yes, if you need single-width mode, then it's fairly narrow (relatively speaking); but there are many applications where various other widths are useful.

Yes, you can definitely use them to mask off certain areas, highlight others, and add extra color to a screen.   I've seen some cool screens created that way

[zzip]

6 minutes ago, PixelCrunch said:

Are there multiple Background layers?

Not really,  other than using the P/m graphics in certain ways as @MrFish mentions, but they have limited resolution.   Some games have parallax scrolling, but they are using software tricks to achieve that.

[PixelCrunch]

On 8/31/2021 at 1:34 PM, zzip said:

Not really,  other than using the P/m graphics in certain ways as @MrFish mentions, but they have limited resolution.   Some games have parallax scrolling, but they are using software tricks to achieve that.

Software tricks as? The software I'm making concept art for DOES have parallax scrolling!

[Faicuai]

On 8/31/2021 at 1:34 PM, zzip said:

Some games have parallax scrolling, but they are using software tricks to achieve that.

Want to see tastefully-rendered parallax on A8?

 

GUARD (1992)

 

Among the very best and seamless I have seen !

 

(I'm a sucker for parallax in general, especially that where real effort has been put by the programmer / developer !).

 

 

[+MrFish]

7 minutes ago, Faicuai said:

Want to see tastefully-rendered parallax on A8?

 

GUARD (1992)

 

I think @zzip is referring to parallax as it pertains to giving the impression that graphic planes are layered on top of each other, such as in Fimbo and the example below.

 

Parallax Scroll.xex

 

 

[Faicuai]

1 hour ago, MrFish said:

pertains to giving the impression that graphic planes are layered on top of each other,

Yes, of course, but the attached sample suffers from "de-coupled perspective" (e.g. the foregrounds scrolling plane does not seem to relate (all all) to the horizon-scrolling plane... like two separate visual entities.

 

In Guard, there is no layering per-se, but since the scrolling sectors have been so thoughtfully and seamlessly stitched, it provides a 3D-like progression of foreground-to-background of the same perspective. Very-much arcade-like, indeed.

[+MrFish]

18 minutes ago, Faicuai said:

Yes, of course, but the attached sample suffers from "de-coupled perspective" (e.g. the foregrounds scrolling plane does not seem to relate (all all) to the horizon-scrolling plane... like two separate visual entities.

 

It's just a demonstration for the software technique. The graphics are more or less placeholders. Given the appropriate foreground and background, the technique is quite effective, as seen in countless video games.

 

[+MrFish]

21 minutes ago, Faicuai said:

In Guard, there is layering no layering per-se, but since the scrolling sectors have been so thoughtfully and seamlessly stitched, it provides a 3D-like progression of foreground-to-background of the same perspective. Very-much arcade-like, indeed.

 

There's nothing wrong with the technique at all -- as seen in games like moon patrol, etc. I was just pointing out that I don't think it's the particular technique that @zzip had in mind when he was referring to software tricks -- in relation to layers that the initial question was about.

 

This technique certainly looks layered, and even gives the impression that each successive layers is on top of the previous; the only difference is that graphic layers and objects do not pass over each other horizontally in your example.

[number6]

On 7/21/2019 at 5:18 PM, emkay said:

OK.

Actually , I hate those scanlines. The Atari needs only one type of scanlines , if mixing of resolutions is wanted.

 

 

Remember:

 

 

Yes, it's my old friend  You see 3 different modes in one scanline, you see "high resolution" colored text , and standard Modes in one game screen. On a real monitor you won't see any "scanline"... no flicker....

 

As I had chosen to use the PMg for a Pause Mode in that game, and for a simple switch inbetween, no PMg is used in the graphics. So there is a lot potential to add colors and details with ease. 

Not to tell that the display information of the game is 3 times in density...

Machine cycle counting for your inline changes?

 

#6

[Gunstar]

On 7/4/2019 at 4:37 AM, polbit said:

 

Rather than try to argue, I'll just leave this right here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXfq5PDt2aE

 

Apologies accepted.

First, sorry everyone to bump an old thread, but someone liked a post I made and I started reading it again. I had put polbit on ignore and never saw this post, but re-reading the thread I decided to read a few of polbit's due to reactions from others at his posts. I think I left the thread after putting him on ignore so this is all new to me now.

 

Anyway, when I saw this particular post and went to watch the video, I just can't leave well enough alone...and this in response to other's references to AtariBlast! and somehow @polbit imagining that this was a better shooter to put AtariBlast! in it's place, judging by his pre-acceptence of "apologies." LOL!

 

But heck, one is a multi-directional scrolling shooter and one horizontally scrolling...comparing apples to oranges possibly? So I thought I'd follow polbit's lead and post a few links to youtube videos for comparable horizontally or vertically only scrolling shooters on the Atari that I personally think are as good or better...and yes, I've played Armalyte on the C64.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And we must not forget the original scrolling shooter by the people behind AtariBlast!

 

 

[Cecito]

First excuse English. I speak Spanish.
There will be no routine that simulates a 40x24 text mode with 8 or 16 colors per character to be used from programs written in basic like commodore or spectrum.

[Mark loves Stella]

On 6/1/2022 at 1:00 AM, Cecito said:

First excuse English. I speak Spanish.
There will be no routine that simulates a 40x24 text mode with 8 or 16 colors per character to be used from programs written in basic like commodore or spectrum.

You might find this interesting. There are multi color hi res modes. But, they may not work the way you are requesting. 

http://atarionline.pl/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1099&page=1

[Gury]

Using sprites

 

[pps]

17 hours ago, Gury said:

Using sprites

 

Consider using invers chars (for the whole screen) [and change of players colors in DLI] with that, would give another pitch to the colors. 

[drpeter]

On 6/1/2022 at 6:00 AM, Cecito said:

First excuse English. I speak Spanish.
There will be no routine that simulates a 40x24 text mode with 8 or 16 colors per character to be used from programs written in basic like commodore or spectrum.

The answer to your question is 'No'.

There is no way, with any routine, to independently colour the foreground and background of each character on a row, like the CBM 64 or Spectrum can.

There are a number of ways to introduce more than a total of 1 colour with 2 brightnesses to a row of characters, which is the basic Atari hi-res character mode, but none approximate the CBM/Spectrum hi-res character modes.