Record an ATR or XEX to tape / cassette

[xrbrevin]

Hi,

I am aware that you can record ATRs to disk using SIO2PC, a real 1050 drive and sector copier software but can the same be done with tapes?

[baktra]

It is possible.

 

There has been software for copying .xex files from disk to cassettes. One of the oldest examples is the Nudmehi Software Boot Cassette Maker (requires Atari 400/800, but there is a version patched for XL/XE machines around). When it comes to modern ones, there is for example the SITRE system. Both programs will load .xex file from disk to memory and then write it to the cassette together with a small binary file loader.

 

http://atarionline.pl/v01/index.php?ct=utils&sub=5. Magnetofon&tg=Boot Cassette Maker#Boot Cassette Maker

http://www.vitoco.cl/atari/sitre/index.html

 

Software for copying files from one cassette to another cassette, e.g. CASDUP. This is exploitable, because SIO2PC can be used for (limited) cassette emulation.

 

Another possibility is the "studio way", generating signal on PC and recording it to tape using ordinary cassette recorder or tape deck.

[Rybags]

CAS is the tape format and real tapes can be recreated from it.

 

ATR - not really.  Back in the day many early disk games were just single stage boot with no protection or subsequent loading of stages etc so you could just do a raw copy to tape and have it work.  But such cases are a rarity.

 

XEX - usually yes.  An Xex is a binary file usually with multiple load segments.  There's been binary loaders developed that will successfully load most XEX files from tape.  Generally the loader would be a few blocks long then followed by some leader tone then the binary XEX file.

Unsure though if there's any PC-based utilities to directly create tapes from either type.  Generally you'd create a WAV or MP3 then use a media player or PC to record to a cassette.

 

<note> - other reply occcurred while I was typing but I decided not to edit.

[xrbrevin]

thanks both :)

 

3 hours ago, Rybags said:

CAS is the tape format and real tapes can be recreated from it.

do you know if there is there a guide for CAS to real tape?

 

 

[baktra]

On 7/13/2019 at 4:49 PM, xrbrevin said:

thanks both

 

do you know if there is there a guide for CAS to real tape?

 

 

Hello,

 

It depends which way you would like to create the real tape.

 

If it is with PC and an ordinary cassette recorder, then you can read about Turgen System or a8cas. Both programs work similar way. You give them a .cas file, and they will give you a .wav file. Then you connect your ordinary cassette recorder to your PC with a cable, play the .wav file through a media player for PC while recording it with the ordinary cassette recorder. So it is then just matter of cassette recording skills. Success depends on equipment you have on hand. Good tape decks work like a charm, cheaper consumer electronics need some convincing or fine tuning of the process.

 

If you want to use just Atari and data recorder, I don't know of any software for Atari that would record a tape directly from a .CAS file.

 

I considered writing a step-by-step guide several times in the past, but users of tapes are a rare species now, so I always dismissed the idea.

Perhaps it is time I reconsidered again and gave it a try.

 

Just take into account that recording tapes is a tedious job and loading times are just terrible. Atari engineers decided that the standard transfer speed will be 600 bps. Not so bad for 1979, too bad for later years.

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2019 by baktra
Grammar and spelling fixes

[xrbrevin]

hmm, the only tape decks i have are atari ones...

i think i can use the old "Multi-Boot" disk menu utilities. I will have to get the games onto the disk using SIO2PC then add the atari tape deck to the SIO chain and see if it will work.

a job for tomorrow methinks :)

[baktra]

9 hours ago, xrbrevin said:

hmm, the only tape decks i have are atari ones...

i think i can use the old "Multi-Boot" disk menu utilities. I will have to get the games onto the disk using SIO2PC then add the atari tape deck to the SIO chain and see if it will work.

a job for tomorrow methinks

Then we keep fingers for you. Please share with us your solution if you can.

[+CharlieChaplin]

Hmmm,

converting ATR (virtual disk) to real 5,25" disk can be done with dozens of tools (hardware and software), e.g. APE, SIO2PC, 1050toPC, RespeQT / AspeQT, etc. and an appropriate cable (SIO2PC cable, SIO2PC-USB cable, etc.). One can even be so mad, to copy an ATR image (e.g. 90k/130k) as a file onto a 5,25" (180k, A8 formatted) diskette with old PC DOS tools, like Ataridsk, Util, My-Util, etc. and then convert the ATR "file" into an A8 disk with ATR-converter tools on the A8...

 

If you want to convert (virtual tape) CAS files into real tapes, you should use PC tools that convert them into WAV first, then record the WAV onto tape. Alternatively, record the WAV onto CD, place the CD into a CD-player and use a tape-adapter (one end connected to headphones out of the CD-player, the other end placed into a 1010) to playback the CD and get the data into the A8. You can temporarily save the data on diskette (e.g. with a C/D copy program) and when done, remove the tape-adapter from the 1010, load the data from disk and then (again using a C/D copy program) save it onto tape. Of course you can also try to connect two data recorders to the A8, one that has the tape-adapter and receives the data from the CD and a second one that records the data onto tape (never tried that myself).

 

If you try to put the (PC/virtual) CAS file onto an A8 diskette, it will never work! Afaik there exist no converter programs on the A8 to convert such a CAS file into a COM/XEX file or into a real tape. Think you have to convert it on the PC first (either into WAV or maybe into XEX, if such a tool exists, there is XEX2CAS, not sure if there also is CAS2XEX ?) or you must know what bytes (CAS header data, etc.) have to be removed from the CAS file to make it a pure A8 binary file again. The (PC) CAS files do contain some additional header data, like Baudrate, etc. and afaik they all start with the text "FUJI"; you have to remove this additional data first, then you get a binary file that can be recorded (with a C/D copy program) onto A8 tape again, I think (but I am not sure, since I never did this). Iow, the (PC) CAS files do not work on the A8, they have to be converted or patched first... just like ATR's that are put as files onto A8 disks have to be converted first...

 

Afaik, none of the A8 emulators that can use/playback CAS files do output the real/original A8 tape sounds, so you cannot simply record them with an A8 data recorder. Would be nice though to get a converter program, that removes the additional header data of a CAS file automatically, so one could use the binary (ML/boottape or BAS) on the A8 again...

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by CharlieChaplin

[baktra]

7 hours ago, CharlieChaplin said:

(either into WAV or maybe into XEX, if such a tool exists, there is XEX2CAS, not sure if there also is CAS2XEX ?)

There is the Tape Image Extractor function in Turgen System. Allows to extract a .XEX file from a .CAS file. The catch is that it works semi-automatically only on .CAS files that contain a binary loader followed by a .XEX file. In any other case, manual setting of the extraction is needed.

 

Theoretically, it would be possible to write an extractor that would recognize the most common systems for storing .xex files to tape and perform automatic extraction.

 

However, xrbrevin is going to use a disk to tape copier with his data recorder, so this is not that relevant.

 

[xrbrevin]

I managed it. The issue was that i have 2x tape games that only load on the (unlabelled) B-side.

fortunately they loaded in without any 'pause and restart' protection processes so i used the multi-boot disk utilities to transfer them to disk. they then loaded from disk perfectly fine.

then i used multi-boot utilities to transfer them back to the A-side of the tapes. interestingly the tape counter shows the new recording to be shorter, but the games run totally fine...?

here are .ATRs of 3 types of multi-boot disk. its quite useful but uses a non-standard filesystem. they were very popular in the UK but im unsure if they were abroad.

thanks for the guidance!

:)

 

Multiboot [gold].atr Multiboot Menu.atr Multiboot XL.atr