Adriano Arcade Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Did the Atari Jaguar Leave a Lasting Legacy!? Which consoles truly left a lasting legacy? Does the Jaguar deserve respect for really trying to implement 3D graphics, introduce controller in-lays and did action buttons lead the way to VMU's and even portable gaming?! Myself and the rest of the Arcade Attack crew discuss the jag, plus many other consoles in this thought-provoking podcast. Also, if you hate our opinions, please shout at us! Thanks all. Adrian https://www.arcadeattack.co.uk/podcast-july-3-2019/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Since you phrased it as a question, here's my take SNES had 3D graphics Intellivision had controller inlays Action buttons were everywhere before them Jaguar was a "me too" system, the last gasp of a dying company that failed to keep up with changing tastes and trends. I guess I need to listen to your podcast to see what you think. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Interesting, I'll have to watch this tonight, but I think we've covered countless times all the Jaguar failures, including the state of Atari itself and that odd 5th generation timeframe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FujiSkunk Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 There were 3D graphics since Battlezone for the arcade. You can argue how much of that was dedicated hardware (everything is dedicated hardware in an arcade game), but even then, what Flojomojo said is true: the SNES had 3D hardware before the Jaguar did. Also... 5 hours ago, Flojomojo said: Intellivision had controller inlays Heck, Atari's own 5200 had controller inlays before the Jaguar, and a whole smorgasbord of "action" buttons to boot. Like any Atari fan, the Jaguar holds a place in my heart. But it's really hard to argue for any sort of legacy beyond maybe "the console that gave us Tempest 2000". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinballs Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 It's an Atari- that's what prompted me to buy it back in the day, despite all the hardware issues e.g. the massive overhype about being '64 bit' yet having quite simple games considering. The legacy however was really the games that you couldn't find elsewhere e.g. Tempest 2000, Defender 2000 etc etc. Heck I even bought a Nuon essentially just for T3000. It's the software, dudes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 64 bit....nuff said. Quote Did you hear anyone say "Goodbye"? ================================== by *Donald A. Thomas, Jr*. (10/4/96) It's odd to imagine an institution, which was as big and as powerful as Atari once was, to have been shut down in recent days. The real amazement for me is that it was all accomplished without a measurable flinch from within or outside the gaming industry. I can understand that gamers wanted to push Pong out the door early in the timeline. I can appreciate that the classics such as Missile Command and Asteroids do not push 32-bit and 64-bit systems to any technological limits. I know all these things intellectually, but the heart cannot face the truth that the world and the corporate machine known as Atari could not find an amicable way to coexist. On Tuesday, July 30, 1996, Atari Corporation took each and every share of it's company (ATC), wrapped them all in a tight bundle and presented them to JTS Corporation; a maker and distributor of hard disk drives. On Wednesday, the shares were traded under the symbol of JTS. Within a few weeks, the remaining staff of Atari that were not dismissed or did not resign, moved to JTS' headquarters in San Jose, California. The three people were assigned to different areas of the building and all that really remains of the Atari namesake is a Santa Clara warehouse full of unsold Jaguar and Lynx products. It was only as long ago as mid '95 that Atari executives and staff believed things were finally taking a better turn. Wal*Mart had agreed to place Jaguar game systems in 400 of their Superstores across the country. Largely based on this promise of new hope and the opportunities that open when such deals are made, Atari invested heavily in the product and mechanisms required to serve the Wal*Mart chain. But the philosophical beliefs of the Atari decision makers that great products never need advertising or promotions, put the Wal*Mart deal straight into a tailspin. With money tied up in the product on shelves as well as the costs to distribute them to get there, not much was left to saturate any marketplace with advertising. While parents rushed into stores to get their kids Saturns or PlayStations, the few that picked up the Jaguar were chastised by disappointed children on Christmas day. In an effort to salvage the pending Wal*Mart situation, desperate attempts to run infomercials across the country were activated. The programs were professionally produced by experts in the infomercial industry and designed to permit Atari to run slightly different offers in different markets. In spite of the relatively low cost of running infomercials, the cost to produce them and support them is very high. The results were disappointing. Of the few thousand people who actually placed orders, many of them returned their purchases after the Holidays. The kids wanted what they saw on TV during the day! They wanted what their friends had! They wanted what the magazines were raving about! In early 1996, Wal*Mart began returning all remaining inventory of Jaguar products. After reversing an "advertising allowance" Atari was obligated to accept, the net benefit Atari realized was an overflowing warehouse of inventory in semi-crushed boxes and with firmly affixed price and security tags. Unable to find a retailer willing to help distribute the numbers required to stay afloat, Atari virtually discontinued operations and traded any remaining cash to JTS in exchange for a graceful way to exit the industry's back door. Now that JTS has "absorbed" Atari, it really doesn't know what to do with the bulk of machines Atari hoped to sell. It's difficult to liquidate them. Even at liquidation prices, consumers expect a minimal level of support which JTS has no means to offer. The hundreds of calls they receive from consumers that track them down each week are answered to the best ability of one person. Inquiries with regard to licensing Atari classic favorites for other applications such as handheld games are handled by Mr. John Skruch who was with Atari for over 13 years. In spite of Nintendo's claim that their newest game system is the first 64-bit game system on the market, Atari Corporation actually introduced the first 64-bit system just before Christmas in 1993. Since Atari couldn't afford to launch the system nationwide, the system was introduced in the New York and San Francisco markets first. Beating the 32-bit systems to the punch (Saturn/PlayStation), Atari enjoyed moderate success with the Jaguar system and managed to lure shallow promises from third-party companies to support the system. Unfortunately, programmers grossly underestimated the time required to develop 64-bit games. The jump from 8-bit and 16-bit was wider than anticipated. In addition, Atari was already spread thin monetarily, but were required to finance almost every title that was in development. After the initial launch, it took Atari almost a year before an assortment of games began to hit store shelves. Even then, having missed the '94 Holiday Season, many of the planned titles were de-accelerated to minimize problems caused by rushing things too fast. Consumers were not happy and retailers were equally dismayed. The few ads that Atari was able to place in magazines were often stating incorrect release dates because that information changed almost every day although magazines deadline their issues up to 120 days in advance. It was in 1983 that Warner Communications handed Jack Tramiel the reins of Atari. By this time, Atari was often categorized as a household name, but few households wanted to spend much money on new software and the systems were lasting forever. No one needed to buy new ones. That, combined with Warner's obscene spending, amounted to a *daily loss* of over $2 million. Atari was physically spread all over the Silicon Valley with personnel and equipment in literally 80 separate buildings; not considering international offices and manufacturing facilities. Mr. Tramiel took only the home consumer branch of Atari and forced Warner to deal with the arcade division separately. Within a few years, Jack took the company public, introduced an innovative new line of affordable 16-bit computers and released the 7800 video game system. To accomplish these miracles for Atari, Jack implemented his "business is war" policies. While people who publicly quoted his statement often felt that policy meant being extremely aggressive in the marketplace, the meaning actually had closer ties to Tramiel's experience as a concentration camp survivor. Of the 80 buildings in Sunnyvale, Santa Clara and Milpitas, almost every one of them were amputated from Atari's body of liabilities. The people, the work, the heritage, the history were fired or liquidated. Those who survived were unsympathetically required to fill in the gaps and while most tried, few actually found a way to be successfully do what a dozen people before them did. Atop the mountain, Jack pressed with an iron thumb. All Fed/Ex mailings were required to be pre-approved by one of a handful of people. "Unsigned" purchase orders went unpaid regardless of the urgencies that inspired their creation. Employees found themselves spending valuable time trying to find ways around the system to accomplish their jobs. Many of them lost their jobs for bending the rules or never finding a way to make things work. As horrible as it all sounds, it actually was the only way to protect Atari as a company and give it a chance to survive as it did and did very well. Jack's introduction of the 16-bit computer was initially hearty in the United States but it went extremely well in Europe. Europeans were not accustomed to "affordable" technology and although the Atari computers were not IBM compatible, it didn't matter because people could afford them. Jacks' private laugh was that the computers were sold at prices much higher in Europe than Americans were willing to pay. As a result, most of the machines made were being shipped to European destinations to capture the higher margin. This enraged the people in the United States that had been Atari loyalists. While waiting months for stores to take delivery domestically, international magazines were touting ample supplies. Those in the know within the U.S. became dismayed. The remainder never knew Atari was slowly abandoning the value of Atari's name recognition as it became easier and easier to forget some assuming Atari had long filed for bankruptcy. On a technical level, Atari 16-bit computers were designed beyond their time. For less than $1,000, consumers could enjoy "multimedia" before the phrase was ever really widely used. The icon-based working environment proceeded Windows popularity although the essential attributes of the two environments were very similar. MIDI was built-in and became an instant hit in the high-end music industry. Tasks were activated and manipulated with a mouse and the system accepted industry standard peripherals such as printers, modems and diskettes. With all the genius that went into the technology of the machines, very little of equivalent genius went into the promoting and marketing the machines. Mr. Tramiel was the founder of Commodore Business Machines. When he introduced the PET computer in 1977, Jack discovered he didn't have to call a single publication. Instead they all flocked to his door demanding an opportunity to see the product. News magazines. Science Journals. Business newsletters. Newspaper reporters. They were all there with microphone, camera and pen in hand. And they kept coming back. Adding a switch, announcing a new 4K application or signing a new retailer were all big stories the press wanted to handle. Today, a new video game announcement may generate a request from any of the dozens of gaming magazines for a press release, but a lot of costly work has to be done to assure fair or better coverage. Editorial people are literally swamped with technical news. Samples are mailed regularly to their attention. Faxes fly in through the phone lines and e-mail jams up their hard drives. It takes a lot to grab their attention. While Atari retained hopes to be successful with the Jaguar, Atari's marketing people were fighting established standards in the industry with severe handicaps. Since cartridges (the Jaguar was/is primarily a cartridge-based system) were so expensive, editorial people were required to return them before new ones would be sent. Editorial people like to assign review projects. So finding cartridges they sent out was not always easy to do. Additionally, reviewers often love their work because they get to keep what they write about. Regardless, the few magazines willing to cover Atari products were more often turned away because of a lack of programmable cartridges or any number of other indecisive barriers. In-store signs and posters were sometimes created, but many retail chains charge premiums to manufacturers that want to display them. Some direct mail campaigns were implemented, but Atari often could not afford to keep those things being advertised on schedule. Therefore, the advertisements were published and distributed, but the product was not available. Clearly, Jack's experience with the world beating a path to the door of a company making a better mousetrap no longer applied. The world had revolved a few times beneath him and he never noticed. The tactics used to successfully sell Commodore computers were simply antiquated notions from the past. Meanwhile, Sony launches the PlayStation with over $500 million in marketing funds. Today, the PlayStation is considered the most successful next-generation gaming machine throughout the world. Sony bought the market. Tramiel's Atari never learned how to do that. Actually, they never could afford it anyway. After the 1990's got underway, Europe as well as the rest of the world, discovered that IBM-compatible computers were becoming more powerful and more affordable. The world always did want computers at home just like in the office and companies like Dell and Gateway exemplified the industry's trend toward home-based office computers. As a result, companies like Commodore, Atari and Next couldn't compete any longer. While the dedicated user base of each of them felt abandoned by these companies having to leave the computer market, the inevitable prevailed. Commodore jumped ship, Next changed business goals completely and Atari invested what they had left in the Jaguar game system. Even today, Apple is kicking and screaming. As good as Apple was at creating a huge niche for themselves, they focused more heavily on education. When kids grow up and get jobs, they want business machines. IBM was always the business standard. When one examines the history of Atari, an appreciation can grow for how many businesses and people were a part of the game over the years. Chuck E. Cheese Pizza was started by Atari's founder, Mr. Nolan Bushnell. Apple Computer was born in a garage by ex-Atari employees. Activision was founded by Ace Atari programmers. The list goes on and on. But for some pathetic reason Atari's final days came and went with no tribute, no fanfare and no dignified farewells. Why? Where did all the talent go? Where are all the archives? Where are the vaults? Where are the unpublished games and where are the originals of those that were? Why has no company stepped forward to adopt the remaining attributes Atari has to offer? Where are the creditors? What has happened to all the properties and sites? Where are the databases, warranty cards, promotional items, notes on meetings, unanswered mail? Who owns P.O. Box 61657? Who goes to work in Atari's old offices? Where do consumers have their systems fixed? Who is publishing new games? Who still sells Atari products? Why are there still a lot of people talking about Atari on-line? I'm an ex-Atari employee and proud to have been. I'm still an Atari devotee and proud to be. To me, these are questions which all deserve an answer, but who will ask them? The best people to ask these questions are those who have exposure to the public. If you believe Atari left us without saying goodbye, contact Dateline at dateline@nbc.com. If you REALLY believe, then send this article to 10 of your friends in e-mail. AND if YOU REALLY, REALLY believe, mail a few to newspapers or other news programs. A letter in your own words would be great! I'd spend money for a thorough retrospect on Atari. Wouldn't you? Wouldn't it at least be nice to say "Goodbye"? --Don Thomas 75300.1267@compuserve.com 209/239-3898 Permission is granted to freely reprint this article in it's entirety provided the author is duly credited. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper_Eye Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I loved Jaguar from the moment I bought my first one as a teenager. It's been over 20 years and I still love it today. With that said the answer to the question posed is no. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 2 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 @high voltage ... I totally forgot about that post. That was making the rounds on Usenet and BBSes back then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Consoles were doing 3D long before the Jaguar. The stock Mega Drive had a number of polygon 3D titles (including a number of ST and Amiga ports) before the SVP chip based Virtua Racing and the SNES SFX chip games. You can go back as far as the Commodore C64GS and Battle Command for the crude and early attempts. The Jaguar controller was just a surplus design from an earlier failed Atari platform, so I have never viewed it as something designed from ground up,for the Jaguar. It and the overlays were attempts by Atari to get developers to bring more complex titles to the platform as things like flight sims has previously always struggled on.console when developers tried to map controls designed for keyboards onto a limited button controller set up. I would never hate on your opinions, the very fact your encouraging adult discussion should be appauluded. It's just the subject material has been covered so many times over the years now,it's hard to bring anything fresh to the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 17 hours ago, Adriano Arcade said: Which consoles truly left a lasting legacy? Does the Jaguar deserve respect for really trying to implement 3D graphics, introduce controller in-lays and did action buttons lead the way to VMU's and even portable gaming?! 1. Define "lasting legacy"? What I do know is that the existence of the console allowed a doorway into the industry for various developers. For instance, High Voltage Software and Rebellion, two studios that are still around today, got their console start on the Jaguar. Various projects that began or appeared on the Jaguar also continued on far past the console's life as well. Examples: Alien Versus Predator, Rayman, Jeff Minter's updated Tempest formula and his light machine tech. 2. Does the Jaguar deserve "respect"? Well, mild appreciation for anyone even remotely interested in consoles of this era, at the very least. The system's 3D capabilities were a large improvement over what we saw with the Super NES and Genesis, the controllers did try something unique for that era and the software library did end up with some interesting gems. I think when you really look at it, it's easy to appreciate what it tried to bring to the table. However, the fact is technology was moving at an extremely rapid pace in the 1990s and some platforms just weren't going to make the cut (Jaguar, 3DO, Neo-Geo CD, etc). It doesn't mean they can't be appreciated today. 3. Did controller in-lays lead the way to VMU's and portable gaming? Definitely not. The Dreamcast VMU was more likely a response to the popularity of Tamagotchi units in the mid '90s. Even Sony had their own variation on the VMU concept with their own PocketStation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 The Jaguar's most lasting legacy is that it was the last Atari game console. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adriano Arcade Posted July 17, 2019 Author Share Posted July 17, 2019 21 hours ago, Flojomojo said: Since you phrased it as a question, here's my take SNES had 3D graphics Intellivision had controller inlays Action buttons were everywhere before them Jaguar was a "me too" system, the last gasp of a dying company that failed to keep up with changing tastes and trends. I guess I need to listen to your podcast to see what you think. Good choices and fair arguments! Yes, please do give the pod a cheeky listen if you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adriano Arcade Posted July 17, 2019 Author Share Posted July 17, 2019 3 hours ago, spacecadet said: The Jaguar's most lasting legacy is that it was the last Atari game console. A valid yet said point! Thank you sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adriano Arcade Posted July 17, 2019 Author Share Posted July 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Austin said: 1. Define "lasting legacy"? What I do know is that the existence of the console allowed a doorway into the industry for various developers. For instance, High Voltage Software and Rebellion, two studios that are still around today, got their console start on the Jaguar. Various projects that began or appeared on the Jaguar also continued on far past the console's life as well. Examples: Alien Versus Predator, Rayman, Jeff Minter's updated Tempest formula and his light machine tech. 2. Does the Jaguar deserve "respect"? Well, mild appreciation for anyone even remotely interested in consoles of this era, at the very least. The system's 3D capabilities were a large improvement over what we saw with the Super NES and Genesis, the controllers did try something unique for that era and the software library did end up with some interesting gems. I think when you really look at it, it's easy to appreciate what it tried to bring to the table. However, the fact is technology was moving at an extremely rapid pace in the 1990s and some platforms just weren't going to make the cut (Jaguar, 3DO, Neo-Geo CD, etc). It doesn't mean they can't be appreciated today. 3. Did controller in-lays lead the way to VMU's and portable gaming? Definitely not. The Dreamcast VMU was more likely a response to the popularity of Tamagotchi units in the mid '90s. Even Sony had their own variation on the VMU concept with their own PocketStation. Love these answers! Thank you! very very detailed and I cant really argue with them! Please give the pod a listen and see if my / our views align! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adriano Arcade Posted July 17, 2019 Author Share Posted July 17, 2019 6 hours ago, Lost Dragon said: Consoles were doing 3D long before the Jaguar. The stock Mega Drive had a number of polygon 3D titles (including a number of ST and Amiga ports) before the SVP chip based Virtua Racing and the SNES SFX chip games. You can go back as far as the Commodore C64GS and Battle Command for the crude and early attempts. The Jaguar controller was just a surplus design from an earlier failed Atari platform, so I have never viewed it as something designed from ground up,for the Jaguar. It and the overlays were attempts by Atari to get developers to bring more complex titles to the platform as things like flight sims has previously always struggled on.console when developers tried to map controls designed for keyboards onto a limited button controller set up. I would never hate on your opinions, the very fact your encouraging adult discussion should be appauluded. It's just the subject material has been covered so many times over the years now,it's hard to bring anything fresh to the discussion. Love this. Yeah, all valid points. Its a really subjective topic for sure and it has been covered in the past. Thanks Lost Dragon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 My viewpoint will of course be very subjective and specific to myself as I am anEx-Jaguar owner, who loved it's best titles at the time, had a soft spot for some others hate ? But other than dabbling as i did in lost games research for it at 1 point, something the likes of yourself and Jenovi do far better than I these days..I don't follow the scene that much. For someone like myself (a casual) the machines legacy really has been the stunning investigation work you good people put in to this day... The fantastic and vibrant homebrew games development community bringing titles i would of killed for back in the day... So the Jaguar has in that regard had a very lasting legacy. On the flipside it's still a format that draws very polar viewpoints on social media and having heard some of the unjustified critiscm laid at your feet over what was a great podcast, you still find the weakest dogs barking the loudest whenever topics like this are brought up for discussion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 On 7/16/2019 at 1:35 PM, high voltage said: 64 bit....nuff said. Solid walls of text are hard to read. I edited your post to restore the original paragraph and line endings from Don Thomas's article (I have the original in my archives, too), and I also put it in block quote format. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adriano Arcade Posted July 17, 2019 Author Share Posted July 17, 2019 18 hours ago, Hyper_Eye said: I loved Jaguar from the moment I bought my first one as a teenager. It's been over 20 years and I still love it today. With that said the answer to the question posed is no. Maybe the podcast will change your mind?! Ok, maybe not! but would be honoured if you gave it a cheeky listen nonetheless. Thanks buddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adriano Arcade Posted July 17, 2019 Author Share Posted July 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Lost Dragon said: My viewpoint will of course be very subjective and specific to myself as I am anEx-Jaguar owner, who loved it's best titles at the time, had a soft spot for some others hate ? But other than dabbling as i did in lost games research for it at 1 point, something the likes of yourself and Jenovi do far better than I these days..I don't follow the scene that much. For someone like myself (a casual) the machines legacy really has been the stunning investigation work you good people put in to this day... The fantastic and vibrant homebrew games development community bringing titles i would of killed for back in the day... So the Jaguar has in that regard had a very lasting legacy. On the flipside it's still a format that draws very polar viewpoints on social media and having heard some of the unjustified critiscm laid at your feet over what was a great podcast, you still find the weakest dogs barking the loudest whenever topics like this are brought up for discussion. Its a really subjective topic, a little like what is a world-class footballe?! Thanks for the kind words as always. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empsolo Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 The real question is did the Jag leave a legacy that had a bigger impact than say the Philips CD-I or the 3DO or the FM towns.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper_Eye Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Adriano Arcade said: Maybe the podcast will change your mind?! Ok, maybe not! but would be honoured if you gave it a cheeky listen nonetheless. Thanks buddy. I listened to the whole podcast before I posted. I was not convinced that the Jaguar left a lasting legacy. I enjoyed the podcast though and I found the topic to be an interesting one. I agree with a lot of the other opinions expressed. PS1 undoubtedly left a lasting legacy as did early Atari consoles, NES, etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Dangerous Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 How could it not? To list a few ways: -Manufactured in the USA; setting precedent for all subsequent gaming consoles to be manufactured in North America -First 64 bit system; gave Nintendo the idea for the Nintendo 64 -VR is very popular right now; why?---the Jaguar's early forays into Virtual Reality -Pioneered the karting style game with the genre defining Atari Karts; later done by Nintendo with mediocre "Mario Kart" clone series -Kasumi Ninja and Ultra Vortek popularized the ultra-violent fighting genre; leading to the success of the Mortal Kombat series -Only console on which you could play Myst, Wolfenstein, and Doom in the early 90's -23 button pro controller inspired current "pro" level controllers such as Scuf, Xbone Elite controllers -Pioneered online gaming with the Jaguar Voice Modem; leading to success of Xbox Live -Checkered Flag ushered in groundbreaking polygon graphics inspiring many copycats such as Virtua Racing by Sega The list goes on (i jest of course.) Jaguar was an American business story. If you are going to go for it; go big; go all in; and either succeed or fail HARD. And that they did. God bless em' for trying. To me the Jaguar has always had curb appeal. I've wanted one for as long as i can remember and still do. The home-brew scene is awesome; which is why i'd argue the system has a bigger impact on gaming and specifically retro gaming now than it ever did before. 1 1 7 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swapd0 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 53 minutes ago, empsolo said: The real question is did the Jag leave a legacy that had a bigger impact than say the Philips CD-I or the 3DO or the FM towns. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk At leas has a better/bigger homebrew community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 4 hours ago, travistouchdown said: To me the Jaguar has always had curb appeal. Many of its games belong curbside on trash day. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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