When did "Gamer Culture" take hold?

[Flojomojo]

Do you think we are past the "Nintendo is for babies" and "Xbox is for real men" stuff? That seemed to be a common discussion point in the early 2000s when the Nintendo console looked like a little purple purse. 

 

My guess is that's still out there, but only in places where I don't go. 

[Austin]

13 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

I never fully understood the "console war" mentality. Maybe I just dislike confrontation ... 

Could be the later, yeah. Or maybe you're simply not dumb.

 

In the USA there seems to be a tendency to take sides regardless of what is talked about, with little thought put into a side one might not support. To a lot of people you swing hard either one way or the other, then you defend it viciously like it's a part of you. It's Democrat or Republican, Nintendo or Sega, the Giants or the Cowboys, Intel or AMD, Ford or Chevy, etc. God forbid one tries to see the good in a side they don't fully understand, or try to keep an open mind. That would be using logic and we can't have any of that blasphemy here!

 

In all seriousness though, I'm pretty middle ground and I think what helped me avoid getting sucked into that black-or-white mindset was getting a Sega console after owning several Nintendo systems (and defending those like my parents did their football teams.. ugh, the thought of it makes me cringe). A later interest in collecting led me to other more obscure platforms and seeing the good they had to offer helped solidify that stance and keep an open mind over the years.

 

I know how stupid people get when it comes to sports in particular and I have seen the same attitudes in popular gaming over the years. I honestly doubt there's anything that can really be done about it, but I have wondered.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Austin

[roots.genoa]

Yeah, fanboyism is mainly caused by our natural need for being confident about our (difficult) choices. People who can afford every system usually don't care about the console war.

 

In my case, I tend to side with the 'oppressed' minority, the 'David' side against the 'Goliath' side. This is funny because I don't necessarily do it on purpose, at least I'm not aware of it. Or maybe I bring bad luck to my side. I was on the SEGA side until the end of the Dreamcast, then it felt natural for me to choose Nintendo - I really hated Sony back then. And even when Nintendo was dominating charts with the Wii and the DS, I felt I was still siding with the oppressed minority among gamers who mostly disliked these systems. And it's also true for cola, politics, movies, wrestling, etc. I guess I just don't like to think like the majority but, once again, sometimes it's really weird. For instance I had no idea TNA was hated that much (and I still don't really understand why) when I became a fan. ?

[Lost Monkey]

2 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

Do you think we are past the "Nintendo is for babies" and "Xbox is for real men" stuff? That seemed to be a common discussion point in the early 2000s when the Nintendo console looked like a little purple purse. 

 

My guess is that's still out there, but only in places where I don't go. 

This was the primary motivator for my disappearance from this and most other game sites many years ago.  Glad its gotten better, but it still isn't gone.

 

Unfortunately there is still (and will continue to be) this type of thing too...

 

https://www.680news.com/2019/07/29/markham-quadruple-murder-suspect-posted-messages-in-online-game-after-deaths/

Edited July 30, 2019 by Lost Monkey

[zzip]

19 hours ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

While everything you said is true, I think it understates the fact that gamers take that kind of behavior to the extremes. I mean - I'm a musician, and I frequent plenty of online music forums, go to local shows, etc. and yes - there are some awful people. But unlike Gamers, I've never been on a music forum or at a local show and had a a gang of 12 year olds scream the N-Word at me while they use cheat codes to kill me. I've never had a guitarist call me a "cuck" because I don't believe in some crazy conspiracy theory. I've never seen a band's fans show up in gangs at a show and start attacking everyone with slurs as part of a "raid".

You're comparing apples to oranges.   Of course musicians don't use cheat codes.   But if you admit to liking the "wrong" music, whether it be Nickelback or Justin Bieber,  music fans can be just as vicious, I've seen it.

 

Yes on gaming forums I have to suffer some really annoying groupthink behavior.  But social media is just as toxic.   It's how humans behave in groups, always have, always will. 

 

 

[zzip]

2 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

Yeah, fanboyism is mainly caused by our natural need for being confident about our (difficult) choices. People who can afford every system usually don't care about the console war.

 

In my case, I tend to side with the 'oppressed' minority, the 'David' side against the 'Goliath' side. This is funny because I don't necessarily do it on purpose, at least I'm not aware of it. Or maybe I bring bad luck to my side. I was on the SEGA side until the end of the Dreamcast, then it felt natural for me to choose Nintendo - I really hated Sony back then. And even when Nintendo was dominating charts with the Wii and the DS, I felt I was still siding with the oppressed minority among gamers who mostly disliked these systems. And it's also true for cola, politics, movies, wrestling, etc. I guess I just don't like to think like the majority but, once again, sometimes it's really weird. For instance I had no idea TNA was hated that much (and I still don't really understand why) when I became a fan. ?

There's another factor in games that amplifies the fanboyism I think.   The most popular console gets the best support from developers.    I think gamers know this deep down, and fear being left behind if another console that they don't own starts to dominate.

 

When arguing sports teams, the total number of fans each side has doesn't directly affect how well a team plays.   But it will affect your game consoles ecosystem

[DJ Clae]

5 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

Do you think we are past the "Nintendo is for babies" and "Xbox is for real men" stuff? That seemed to be a common discussion point in the early 2000s when the Nintendo console looked like a little purple purse. 

 

My guess is that's still out there, but only in places where I don't go. 

As long as they continue to release hardware that isn't as beefy as the competition, and software that is strictly family-friendly, that probably won't change.

[mbd30]

5 hours ago, Austin said:

Could be the later, yeah. Or maybe you're simply not dumb.

 

In the USA there seems to be a tendency to take sides regardless of what is talked about, with little thought put into a side one might not support. To a lot of people you swing hard either one way or the other, then you defend it viciously like it's a part of you. It's Democrat or Republican, Nintendo or Sega, the Giants or the Cowboys, Intel or AMD, Ford or Chevy, etc. God forbid one tries to see the good in a side they don't fully understand, or try to keep an open mind. That would be using logic and we can't have any of that blasphemy here!

 

In all seriousness though, I'm pretty middle ground and I think what helped me avoid getting sucked into that black-or-white mindset was getting a Sega console after owning several Nintendo systems (and defending those like my parents did their football teams.. ugh, the thought of it makes me cringe). A later interest in collecting led me to other more obscure platforms and seeing the good they had to offer helped solidify that stance and keep an open mind over the years.

 

I know how stupid people get when it comes to sports in particular and I have seen the same attitudes in popular gaming over the years. I honestly doubt there's anything that can really be done about it, but I have wondered.

 

I got a NES in 1989 and then got a Sega Genesis two years later.

 

Also, I loved video game magazines back in the day. I subscribed to Video Games & Computer Entertainment which covered everything. At least I was aware of other platforms such as the Turbografx even though I didn't know anybody who owned them. If your only magazine was eg. Nintendo Power then that might promote fanboyism.

 

 

 

[boxpressed]

The console war mentality to me is similar to how committed some American car and truck buyers are to Chevy, Ford, and Dodge, to the point where their cars have even MORE logo insignia than what the factory installs with some even having a decal of Calvin urinating on the logo of another brand.

 

Advertising encourages these comparisons for cars and trucks but the consoles don't really seem to engage that way anymore.

 

It matters that cars (especially trucks) and console advertising targets men mostly. I just don't see this kind of aggressive brand loyalty among women targeted by advertisers. I'm sure loyalty exists, just displayed in less overt and confrontational ways. That's probably how it should be. 

[zzip]

9 minutes ago, boxpressed said:

Advertising encourages these comparisons for cars and trucks but the consoles don't really seem to engage that way anymore.

I think it's because a clear winner has emerged in the current-gen culture war some time ago, and it's not worth debating anymore.   Wait until the next generation starts and we will see it flare up again.

[boxpressed]

6 minutes ago, zzip said:

I think it's because a clear winner has emerged in the current-gen culture war some time ago, and it's not worth debating anymore.   Wait until the next generation starts and we will see it flare up again.

Do you mean that the PS4 has won against the XB One? It seems as though the Switch is a pretty big player too.

[zzip]

1 hour ago, boxpressed said:

Do you mean that the PS4 has won against the XB One? It seems as though the Switch is a pretty big player too.

Switch is growing at a good rate, but it's several years behind PS4 in sales.

[roots.genoa]

4 hours ago, zzip said:

There's another factor in games that amplifies the fanboyism I think.   The most popular console gets the best support from developers.    I think gamers know this deep down, and fear being left behind if another console that they don't own starts to dominate.

 

When arguing sports teams, the total number of fans each side has doesn't directly affect how well a team plays.   But it will affect your game consoles ecosystem

Yes, that's probably why I still sided with Nintendo in the Wii/DS era; they were still the 'outsiders' in terms of support from publishers. And I don't like that kind of 'injustice'.

[+GoldenWheels]

8 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

Do you think we are past the "Nintendo is for babies" and "Xbox is for real men" stuff? That seemed to be a common discussion point in the early 2000s when the Nintendo console looked like a little purple purse. 

 

My guess is that's still out there, but only in places where I don't go. 

Damn, I'll say it...isn't this one of those things that is a thing because at one point (and even then) it was really kind of true? I know it just became kind of a broadside attack (and I play tons of violent ^%$# on my switch now!) at some point.

 

Even back in the day, Sega was doing what Nintendidn't, putting the blood in MK. When did Nintendo ever push the envelope on adult content first? (this is assuming the whole adult thing is about sex and blood and violence, both systems always had games that babies couldn't handle of course. Nintendo just had a lot more of them.)

[godslabrat]

On 7/30/2019 at 1:45 PM, GoldenWheels said:

Damn, I'll say it...isn't this one of those things that is a thing because at one point (and even then) it was really kind of true? I know it just became kind of a broadside attack (and I play tons of violent ^%$# on my switch now!) at some point.

 

Even back in the day, Sega was doing what Nintendidn't, putting the blood in MK. When did Nintendo ever push the envelope on adult content first? (this is assuming the whole adult thing is about sex and blood and violence, both systems always had games that babies couldn't handle of course. Nintendo just had a lot more of them.)

Maybe it was true at one time... but given that the modern gamer has the memory of a goldfish, I really can't see the historical background as justification for the continuation of this stereotype.  Nintendo has been willing to put mature content on their consoles since at least the N64 days... the problem is convincing the developers that the platform is worth their time.

 

Nintendo doesn't have a censorship problem, they have a developer problem.  This *finally* seems to be lifting with the Switch, but I think that still depends on if this generation ends as strongly as it began for them.

[+GoldenWheels]

2 hours ago, godslabrat said:

Maybe it was true at one time... but given that the modern gamer has the memory of a goldfish, I really can't see the historical background as justification for the continuation of this stereotype.  Nintendo has been willing to put mature content on their consoles since at least the N64 days... the problem is convincing the developers that the platform is worth their time.

 

Nintendo doesn't have a censorship problem, they have a developer problem.  This *finally* seems to be lifting with the Switch, but I think that still depends on if this generation ends as strongly as it began for them.

It was true then, and I agree it's old news (though the N64 is really just the start of M stuff, without any real depth, and even the GC....maybe handful of truly violent games at best right?) 

 

But it's kind of like Eagles fans pelting Santa with snowballs. Eagles fans aren't the worst fans in the NFL, or the most violent, by any stretch. But once you pelt Santa with a snowball...you get stuck with that rep.   ?

[+Gemintronic]

As far as rabid, self harming fandom goes I think I noticed it around Xbox 360 and PS3 era.  Which is strange because this was also the era where exclusivity deals, online only and DLC started.  Basically, the time and place people should have fought hard with their dollars to stop these evils behaviors - instead they doubled down on brand worship and group think.

[82-T/A]

On 7/23/2019 at 3:01 PM, godslabrat said:

...and by that, I'm talking about the most negative aspects of what "gamer culture" is and has been.  At what point did people get taken seriously for their choice in gaming platforms?  At what point did the industry start catering to people who based their whole life on gaming?  And more relevant, when did our culture accept that as normal?  I know there have always been bad eggs, going back to the very beginning, but can we mark where it actually branded the hobby?

 

I'm not really sure I would really know how to respond to this... cause I don't really know what the "gamer" culture really is. I don't think I've ever really been a apart of it. Back when I was a kid, in the 80s... they had the move "The Wizard," and they already had the Nintendo Championships... which was a big deal then. Nintendo used to send out mailers once a quarter that had all the latest Nintendo games. It then became a booklet, and then they just stopped sending it out because there was too many games.

 

I see stuff now... I mean, we all make fun of Leeroy Jenkins, cause that's just funny... but people take this stuff seriously. There are grown men, my age... in their 40s, who are part of klans and groups who play together on different online games. I guess I shouldn't judge, maybe I'm a little jealous, but I don't have the kind of time in my life to be able to play like that.

 

When I was in high school, we used to have LAN parties... or really... they were NULL-MODEM parties, and Token-Ring parties. We would buy a token ring network card... LinkSys... buy the BNC connectors with the terminator, and we'd load LSL.COM and ETHER.COM in DOS, and it would just magically work in DOOM and other games, lol.

 

I still don't really know what GamerGate is all about. I clicked the Vox Link that Flomojo posted, so I'll read that. Best I can remember hearing, some girl made a post in a news article about dudes at a video game convention being nerdy guys and liking COSPLAY girls or something. Everyone got offended, lots of people said things.

 

I dunno...

 

I really, really think it comes down to what GoldenWheels said...

 

On 7/29/2019 at 12:35 PM, GoldenWheels said:

Beware anyone who defines their life by a hobby.

 

... couldn't have said it better myself.

[82-T/A]

Oh man, just read the GamerGate stuff...

 

So, Girl Nerd cheats on Guy Nerd. Guy Nerd gets super Nerdy and makes a bunch of posts about it because he can't handle the fact that he was cheated on. Girl Nerd then freaks out or something... I dunno, forgot already, and a bunch of other nerds say mean things to her on her social media accounts. Then semi-nerdy girl with stick up her butt makes a bunch of Tweets and videos on how the game industry is exemplifying women (big books on Laura Croft, etc...), so then a bunch of nerds say mean things on social media accounts.

 

There's a lesson in all of this:

 

1 - Don't put your life on the internet, and especially not on social media.

2 - If you have to be on social media for your job, then separate personal information from business information.

3 - Ugh...

[Swami]

On 7/23/2019 at 3:01 PM, godslabrat said:

...and by that, I'm talking about the most negative aspects of what "gamer culture" is and has been.  At what point did people get taken seriously for their choice in gaming platforms?  At what point did the industry start catering to people who based their whole life on gaming?  And more relevant, when did our culture accept that as normal?  I know there have always been bad eggs, going back to the very beginning, but can we mark where it actually branded the hobby?

Gaming culture is like hot dog stand owner culture, it is a microcosm whose ego is fed by the profiting corporations. It's like the conventions and awards for geologists doing reasearch at universities and there are like these gods of the geology field and shit.

[82-T/A]

It's the internet.

 

All of our problems, and many of our successes, are because of the internet.

 

Society hasn't quite yet learned how to deal with communication on the internet. We have no filters because people exist behind a monitor. Most people would never say these things face to face with a person.

 

Can you imagine calling someone a bag of dicks to their face, after saying they are the stupidest mo-fo for believing in (whatever it is)? This happens every day on the intarwebs, but usually leads to a shooting if done in person.

 

So... yeah, the internet.

 

[+davidcalgary29]

When I went to computer camp in 1982 and 1983, the counsellors were all “blah, blah, if you’re not playing “Moria” on the VAX you’re really not into computers...”, so I’m guessing that fanboi-ism has been a noxious component in computer gaming back to the pre-Spacewar radar smears that would make your eyes melt if you actually tried to “play” them. Nothing new about this at all.

[+wongojack]

10 hours ago, 82-T/A said:

Oh man, just read the GamerGate stuff...

 

GamerGate - Anita Sarkeesian created a video series called Tropes vs Women in video games.  Anyone who has done scholarly research and been asked to analyze a piece of literature or other art form will recognize that she is specifically applying a critical theory to the art form of video games.  She points out the use of tropes and applies Feminist Theory.  She could have applied Colonial, Marxist, or Post Modern theory, but that was not the point.  She applies Feminist Theory which has a set of pre-defined characteristics.  As part of her analysis, she identifies the Tropes used over and over again in video games to depict women (some ARE positive).

 

As you can imagine, women are not portrayed in video games with much diversity, so the examination revealed some very negative portrayals and stereotypes.

 

DudeBros saw it as an attack on all things they love about video games, and a small group launched an online campaign to silence people supporting the videos.  Use of the hashtag #gamergate became a common rallying cry and was abused to the point of threatening people and women who said anything about the industry needing to change regarding the characterization of women (or minorities) in games.  

 

Anita got MANY death threats at the height and refused to do public appearances for some time.  I think that has died down now, but I haven't kept up.  I think I saw her in a Maroon 5 video not too long ago.

[Flojomojo]

I think the GG temperature has cooled down, but there was a lot of actively coordinated bulk trolling for a while, real mob behavior. Lots of people getting caught up in stuff they didn't fully understand, and some clever counterprogramming ("notmyshield") by the 4chan gang. 

 

Maybe the new hot thing (Fortnite, or more likely, something cooler I don't know about yet and won't until it's passé) has stolen the "gamer culture" attention away. 

 

Or maybe the gamer world is so large and diverse it can't be controlled or defined in such a general way. We don't talk about the email community or the automobile driving community or the underwear wearing culture. It's just stuff that you can buy/play/collect/enjoy. 

[Flojomojo]

Yes, I collect underwear. To wear, not to display or keep new in the package. I'm not a hardcore underwear wearer. I (usually) put on a fresh clean pair every day.