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tane

River Raid Bold

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This is going to be politically incorrect but aren't we beginning to have an overdose of hacks with just tweaked sprites? Some releases are super fun and bring something new but the purpose of this one seems quite vague. Too bad there aren't more users working on "fixing" less classic broken / unplayable / ugly / shorter-than-expected games and making really updated 2019 versions.

 

No offense on my part, just an opiniated thought :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I think fixing obviously bad sprites to really nice ones is great, many coders were not graphists or pixel artists back in the day and had little help, we got great games that needed a little make up to become great. I love the cool fix ups, I don't like the ones where they become flights of fancy and don't really help.

I expect this is going somewhere, and if he's dipping his toes in the water, I wouldn't discourage it. He may progress to doing big great wonderful things in the future! I say he keeps going but let's us know what he is changing and going for.

 

It's great to see another person jumping in pool, eventually we will have a team !!

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One of the best Atari games ever released.  I started with the 2600 version which was also terrific.  Carol Shaw did a great job.  I've never seen the C64 or other versions.  Were they substantially the same graphics -- or were they tweaked, also?

 

-Larry

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10 hours ago, www.atarimania.com said:

This is going to be politically incorrect but aren't we beginning to have an overdose of hacks with just tweaked sprites? Some releases are super fun and bring something new but the purpose of this one seems quite vague. Too bad there aren't more users working on "fixing" less classic broken / unplayable / ugly / shorter-than-expected games and making really updated 2019 versions.

 

No offense on my part, just an opiniated thought :)

 

Actually, there are not too many modified games so far this year...  I would say that less than 10 posted on this forum. I only remember one with new levels: Montezuma Again. I guess there are more in Fandal. Statistically, it is easier, and the first step, is just to make tweaks, than to develop new games / levels, so the statistical pyramid has the correct shape. Secondly, you must know the programming language, and new generations like me are most aware of C, Matlab, css, javascript, SQL, and the old guys barely publish tweaking and programming tutorials, so the developing pyramid remains tiny.

 

The thing is, there aren't too enough tweaks and new games being developed, but its pyramid has the right but small shape. So talking about an 'overdose of hacks' it's exaggerated, and for me they are very welcome. If you liked a game, you would like to see an improvement, and there aren't tweaks for the vast majority of games.

 

Edited by tane
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Tane, I think the idea was that he just didn't want to see a huge flurry of mini tweaked stuff turn up but as you say its a natural progression for you and others, a tweak turns in to a full improvement, that turns into maybe a new level and then the notions of a game in the works shows up. That's something I think we would all like to see, a nice progression in learning and improving.

 

There used to be a tendency on platforms to release what was called a 'hack' and it was just a change of a title screen or a different font, there's been loads of those, hacks for many should mean improvement...

 

So carry on improving...

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5 hours ago, Larry said:

 I've never seen the C64 or other versions.  Were they substantially the same graphics -- or were they tweaked, also?

Comparative screenshots of all versions here...

https://www.mobygames.com/game/river-raid/screenshots

The other ports (which Carol Shaw had nothing to do with) don't look all that bad but none of them play as well as the Atari originals.

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9 minutes ago, AtariNerd said:

Not a comment on the hack, itself, but I can't help but be reminded of a skit from MST3K, for "Cowboy Mike's Ricochet Barbecue Sauce"  

Keep on topic.

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The ONLY difference I see on the screen shots posted is in the first two, with dark green and lighter green land. What is suppose to be different? I know you said helicopters and tanks, but I see no difference at all except the shade of green. 

 

...Ok, I see one helicopter with a green stripe instead of blue in the first picture...

I'd love to see an improved RR, graphically, I never cared for the A8 version since it was only minutely better than the 2600 version graphically. I loved the game, on the 2600, but by the time I got an A8 I was sick of it from playing it so much, and I never tried the A8 version because it looked like the 2600 version. This is true of almost all Activision's releases for the A8 that came out on the 2600 first. 

 

But so far, I see nothing that makes it look better really. This game needs a complete re-work of not only the sprites, but the landscapes as well to really shine on the A8. Good luck and I hope more is done than just some color changes, that's not enough to make me want to play it again.

 

One thing that I always disliked about River Raid's graphics was that the sprites, except for your jet, were all side-view like a horizontal scrolling shooter, when it's clearly a top-down view vertical scrolling shooter. I'd like to see the sprites all redone as top-down view.

 

That being said, I have been cajoled into playing a high-score competition of it on Atari Sector, so I will be trying it soon. 

 

 

Edited by Gunstar
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6 minutes ago, Gunstar said:

The ONLY difference I see on the screen shots posted is in the first two, with dark green and lighter green land. What is suppose to be different? I know you said helicopters and tanks, but I see no difference at all except the shade of green. 

 

...Ok, I see one helicopter with a green stripe instead of blue in the first picture... 

The 2 screenshots come from the same file, so it's expected to see no difference... I didn't make a one-to-one comparison, maybe I should do it in the future, but this thread was supposed to be for old players.

 

I think you should play the original version first, then you will see some slight improvements. My intention is to upgrade some things, not to make a fully different game like the 2k11 version.

 

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Old players? I'm not sure what you mean by that. I'm 51 and played River Raid on the 2600 when it first came out.

Anyway, my mistake, I thought screen shots were supposed to be of what you had improved, I'm not sure what the point is otherwise...but sorry, go about your business, I just played the original A8 version again, and I am still tired of it after all these years and I probably wouldn't care to play it even if you did do a 2K19 version anyway. Good luck to you with what you are doing, I've nothing against it, I just personally grew tired of the game many years ago and after trying it again, find I am still tired of it. I just saw a screen shot of the 2K11 version and  I don't even care about a 2K11 version either...

Sorry to interrupt your thread, bye now...

Edited by Gunstar

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1 minute ago, Gunstar said:

Old players? I'm not sure what you mean by that. I'm 51 and played River Raid on the 2600 when it first came out. 

Anyway, my mistake, I thought screen shots were supposed to be of what you had improved, I'm not sure what the point is otherwise...

You should play the 5200 version. Clearly then you will see the differences in the sprites.

 

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1 minute ago, tane said:

You should play the 5200 version. Clearly then you will see the differences in the sprites.

 

Probably, but unless game play is drastically different, it's just a game I grew tired of and after  just trying it on the A8, I still am.

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49 minutes ago, Gunstar said:

Probably, but unless game play is drastically different, it's just a game I grew tired of and after  just trying it on the A8, I still am.

 

River Raid is a very good game, ranked Top 100 according to Atarimania, surrounded by first class titles that an Atarian should definitely know.

 

Image1.thumb.png.e014ac1a2eda8a2366b6a12469996621.png

 

 

And by Downloads it's Top 5:

 

Image2.thumb.png.6aff685a329598eb12c0c652a5368be7.png

 

Edited by tane

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We've just finished playing River Raid in the HSC and already I can't remember enough about it to see how good your improvements are! Comparative screenshots would be useful. I agree, great game

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10 hours ago, tane said:

 

River Raid is a very good game, ranked Top 100 according to Atarimania, surrounded by first class titles that an Atarian should definitely know.

 

Image1.thumb.png.e014ac1a2eda8a2366b6a12469996621.png

 

 

And by Downloads it's Top 5:

 

Image2.thumb.png.6aff685a329598eb12c0c652a5368be7.png

 

Do you read posts completely or just skim? I said I used to love the game, when I played it on the 2600. I played it so much back then, that I actually got sick and tired of it after a while, so much so, that I didn't care to try it again for the last 35 years. I tried it again last night and I am still tired of it. There are so many great shooters on the A8 that are superior since it first came out that I've lost interest, personally. Games like Blue Max for example. Anyway, as too what other think of it, and rank it, so what? maybe you missed the quote in my signature too? And I am well aware of the 8-bits first class titles and know them all well, in the case of River Raid, too well. I've moved on, good luck, as I've said before. 

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Comparative screenshots:

 

Here is a small comparison of some of the main elements of this small 8 KB mega game. The target was to improve the original elements keeping the same feeling of the game, and not to make a too different blasphemous version like the 2k11.

 

 

Tanks: The size of the vehicles and the shot were increased. The explosion is also different now, with a ring ending. There is a space limitation, so the size was increased the most it was possible. Now the tanks looks stronger.

 

1874661293_RRB-Tanks1.png.30b7a877ad0034a516e86eae6b451aeb.png                  310304547_RRB-Tanks2.png.861f381e370f027574037cf11a6f5d2c.png

 

 

 

1341618789_RRB-Tanks3.png.429278a1bbb4f9d914d8bba91a8ec2b3.png

 

 

Helicopters: its propeller was increased, before it was proportionately very small:

 

1275196517_RRB-Helicopters.png.6af95b43593613249755e46fca5cd34a.png

 

 

 

Planes: Originally they look very different to the main airplane character and in a different angle, so they should be changed to something, and a missile shows up as a good replacement.

 

985297929_RRB-Missile.png.7c46adcd691aff9009cf58ce11ce916d.png     planes1-1.png.a71e6f976d06c34f2cd206baa0589d37.png     planes2-2.png.01f78f93b59b8086e533bd505c9f6b38.png

 

 

There are also others changes here and there. I like the ships and rocks so they won't be changed, the fuel tank it's ok now with rounded corners.

 

 

 

Regarding color changes, this version will remains the same colors, but if it's possible I'd like to make a second 'Cold Winter' version like 1942 for Nes, but I'll need some help as I don't know how to change colors yet:

 

1942.png.c1abc5d3a6f348e7c2e3818a8a2b2352.png     38727373_1942coldwinter.png.27b8c336025951ddce9b75443c338706.png

       1942 Original                   1942 Cold Winter

 

 

 

Edited by tane
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I'm a bit reluctant to reply, because there has already been a lot of negativity in this thread and this criticism might come across as more of the same.  I don't object to the idea of people tweaking games by altering sprites and colors, but I hope more develops from this particular effort.

 

The new helicopter sprite is a true improvement.  The tank is a downgrade to the original, and the airplane sprite was perfect as-is and didn't need replacement.  The missile has less character.

 

 

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Please don't take this stuff as a personal attack. It's meant as
constructive criticism. I just finished reading a book on military
hardware...

Now the tanks looks stronger.



Blockier too. Also, all tanks made since the very early days of tanks
have angled armor on the front & back (the "glacis"), like the original
sprites. The angle is there to deflect incoming enemy fire. It's such
an obvious design that it's used by everyone, and has become part of
what a tank looks like, to the general public.

Your tank has vertical armor on the front and angled on the back,
I'm not sure any tank ever made looks like that. Plus the tank body is
actually shorter in the front, which kinda makes it less recognizable
as a tank... Maybe take the original sprite and make it taller, without
changing the sloped armor, and see how that looks to you?

Helicopters: its propeller was increased, before it was proportionately very small



Copters haven't got propellors, it's a rotor (sorry, being pedantic).

It looks OK, except you moved the center of it to the back of the body,
so it's no longer mounted in the center of the body. I'm not sure a
real helicopter built like that would be stable enough to fly... or if
it flies, it might be impossible to control and give the pilot motion
sickness.

Maybe that level of realism is too much for an 8-bit game? The original
sprite, you're right, the rotor is too small, a helicopter built like
that also wouldn't get off the ground.

What would be really cool (if possible) would be to add a tail rotor.

Planes: Originally they look very different to the main airplane character and in a different angle, so they should be changed to something, and a missile shows up as a good replacement.



It's OK for them to look different, they're enemy planes, made in a
different country from the player's plane :)

Your missile looks more like a spaceship (reminds me of the player's ship
from Defender). See if you can make the body of the missile less tapered,
and the tailfins more triangular.

More squared-off tailfins might work too, example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tomahawk_Block_IV_cruise_missile.jpg

Also, your tailfins extend past the back of the missile, swept back like
the wings of a fighter jet. Real ones don't do that (I think because
the rocket exhaust might melt them), and that's part of why it looks
like a spaceship.

Don't read too much into all my rambling. This is your game mod, I'm
just some random guy giving my opinions...

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Even a close up of the tanks doesn't look good, in the gameplay looks better and more noticeable, and a reason for double canyon is because there is a bold shot. There isn't too much pixels to play, but unless another appears, the design will remain.

 

RRB.png.91b031ff54cdd1bae935952e3ad05780.png

 

 

Any comments about military design, it's better to play this funny game before. There are too many constrains in few pixels for the 8-bit version, so you can't win with all features when drawing.

 

SE.thumb.png.1392b12e8f15cf39edddc11d68cd61c4.png

 

 

Regarding the planes, I didn't like them, they look too small. It's a size problem and about behavior, they are too dumb just flying across. I was trying different missiles and I couldn't find a good one, so I took the best option, taking the space limit. I don't like it 100%, but it's best than the planes. I'll take a look.

 

Regarding helicopters: (the 'propeller' was the best translation I could find), anyway it was clear what the change was. Now it's not centered, but there are not too many options in a few pixels, keeping the same style. Changing the shape, the helicopter becomes a fish or lost its original style. In overall it looks better.

 

It's fine to have opinions, because I have a too slanted opinion about the design if I'm the only one on it.

 

I need to know about changing colors.

 

Edited by tane

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