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MiSTer FPGA


Newsdee

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On 8/11/2019 at 2:22 AM, seastalker said:

  Question: hardware-wise, how is the nano board when it comes to video?

Extremely powerful, since the key market for FPGAs literally is realtime video (and audio) processing. 

 

The board has 1GB of DDR memory that can be used to buffer a compressed binary stream from the SD card, and the FPGA can decompress it and feed it to the HDMI output.

 

I'm not sure what open source codecs exist, but I'm sure there is at least an MPEG2 one. Also somebody who does it for a living is likely have a codec license to build a closed source core. So the only real criteria is finding a developer who wants to work on that.

 

For SegaCD and PCE CD its a different story because they just need to implement the same hardware as back in the day. The CD can fit in the DDR RAM if it can't be read from the SD fast enough. Again, the constraint is developer time / availability than the hardware.

Edited by Newsdee
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On 8/11/2019 at 12:44 AM, phoenixdownita said:

I've got to ask again, how come now that there's a dedicated thread for MiSTer we do not see the participation of those so into "Analouge is evil, MiSTer for president" camp?

Because this thread is for those that actually want to talk about MiSTer instead of crapping on other alternatives.  I personally enjoy both my Analogue products and MiSTer setup.

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On 8/12/2019 at 8:23 PM, Newsdee said:

Extremely powerful, since the key market for FPGAs literally is realtime video (and audio) processing. 

 

The board has 1GB of DDR memory that can be used to buffer a compressed binary stream from the SD card, and the FPGA can decompress it and feed it to the HDMI output.

 

I'm not sure what open source codecs exist, but I'm sure there is at least an MPEG2 one. Also somebody who does it for a living is likely have a codec license to build a closed source core. So the only real criteria is finding a developer who wants to work on that.

 

For SegaCD and PCE CD its a different story because they just need to implement the same hardware as back in the day. The CD can fit in the DDR RAM if it can't be read from the SD fast enough. Again, the constraint is developer time / availability than the hardware.

Wow, just imagine the possibilities of the Mister hardware Daphne equivalent replacement device for old arcade laserdiscs. Faster loading times from reading disc images too.  I would buy a hypothetical Arcade cabinet of Dragon's Lair that ran BETTER from a confirmed perfect 1:1 disc image on FPGA hardware.  Support for all other Daphne emulator titles and Action Max SINGE titles (arcade light gun) would be quite the vision. 

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On 8/21/2019 at 5:44 AM, seastalker said:

Wow, just imagine the possibilities of the Mister hardware Daphne equivalent replacement device for old arcade laserdiscs. Faster loading times from reading disc images too.  I would buy a hypothetical Arcade cabinet of Dragon's Lair that ran BETTER from a confirmed perfect 1:1 disc image on FPGA hardware.  Support for all other Daphne emulator titles and Action Max SINGE titles (arcade light gun) would be quite the vision. 

You just need to find somebody motivated to work on it, though. I expect this may take a while since there are many other multi-arcade systems that are sexier for everybody (e.g. CPS1, CPS2, System16, System8).

 

Is Daphne not running well enough to put in a cab?

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On 8/20/2019 at 4:44 PM, seastalker said:

Wow, just imagine the possibilities of the Mister hardware Daphne equivalent replacement device for old arcade laserdiscs. Faster loading times from reading disc images too.  I would buy a hypothetical Arcade cabinet of Dragon's Lair that ran BETTER from a confirmed perfect 1:1 disc image on FPGA hardware.  Support for all other Daphne emulator titles and Action Max SINGE titles (arcade light gun) would be quite the vision. 

The Daphne author made a solid state laser disc player replacement (Dexter) already. However, it emulates the seek delays, so it isn't any faster than the real thing. Just much more reliable.

 

 http://laserdisc-replacement.com/

Edited by nick3092
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Had my first go with a Mister yesterday and I’ll be picking one up shortly, but not for the reasons I expected. I didn’t really see much point as I already own most of the things it covers and emulate the others with Retropie. However what it does that is most impressive is the HDMI CRT filtering. It is MUCH more impressive and easier than original hardware through a scaler into a panel. If there is any lag there, it’s so minor I can’t tell. So for convenience it’s just perfect for that, and I can leave my original hardware running through CRTs.

 

It is definitely a work in progress and suits tinkerers. Which doesn’t bother me in the slightest, though I could see it being a bit of a ball-ache for people not into that. But otherwise, it’s a damned impressive bit of kit.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I brought my MiSTer on a long trip and it's been a great summer with it.

 

The NeoGeo core has matured incredibly well, courtesy of furrtek, sorgelig and jotego. There are some minor audio issues being worked out, but most games sound great.

Some games require more SDRAM than the standard board, so I expect a new SDRAM expansion board design being released when the core is officially out.

(the current 32MB board runs 82% of the Neogeo library well, there are some 19 other games that need 64MB, and 8 that need 96MB).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgq_ZTznnFk

 

In other news, Grabulosaure is about to release an Intellivision core, which you can see in action here:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTtWxIOOa8Y

 

There's other things going on but it would be hard to list them all.

 

A Commando arcade core is out by Jotego, the NES core received a lot of love by many developers and is almost perfect, an Apple I core has been ported courtesy of alanswx,

and a direct video mode is in being experimented on with SNES and Genesis.

 

This latter feature is to allow using an external DAC from HDMI to use analog out.

It's a different technique than the Analogue DAC, but it achieves a similar goal to use CRTs and VGA displays with an aftermarket adapter (i.e. not having to rely on a custom I/O board).

Edited by Newsdee
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You can download the intellivision core here.  http://temlib.org/pub/mister/

 

Not much information about it; the video posted September 1 says it's a work in progress.  Is it open source or closed source?

 

Edit:

Sounds are a little off, especially the razz sound when he's out of bullets.  Still, it's good to see.

Edited by mr_me
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1 hour ago, phoenixdownita said:

With the disappearance of the SmokeMonster MiSTer pack (well all packs to be fair), where do you get updated setups?

Those packs were mostly useful for games. The cores themselves are all available on Github, and there is an updater script that will grab the latest cores for you on demand.

 

The WIP cores are not yet part of that script, but they are posted in forums and the discord server for those who want to try and help with feedback.

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The NeoGeo core just went official and Porkchop Express has added 64MB and 128MB SDRAM boards to misteraddons.com for preorder. 

 

So that's it, it's time to put my money where my mouth is I guess and get a DE10-nano. That's what I said it'd take, and now they've done it. 

 

Assuming the SNES + enhancement chip performance is correct (and it's something I'm capable of setting up myself) I'll be able to sell my Super Nt and SD2SNES to make up the cost. Keeping the Mega Sg for SegaCD stuff, though. 

 

NeoGeo GitHub link: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NeoGeo_MiSTer

 

SDRAM announcement: 

 

 

 

Edited by derFunkenstein
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Well, I preordered the parts I need from misteraddons. 128 MB SDRAM, USB hub, acrylic top and bottom plates, and fan. That was like $130, which while pricey, should be pretty nice. I preordered in the first couple hours of 128 MB SDRAM boards being announced, so hopefully I got in line early. :)

 

Once all of that comes in, I'll get a DE10-nano. Already have an M30 Bluetooth and a compatible Bluetooth adapter here, and a spare Amazon Basics wireless keyboard/mouse combo. Should probably get a big SD card, too. Gonna make a bunch of my hardware redundant, but that's OK. It's what eBay is for. :D

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8 hours ago, derFunkenstein said:

The NeoGeo core just went official and Porkchop Express has added 64MB and 128MB SDRAM boards to misteraddons.com for preorder. 

 

So that's it, it's time to put my money where my mouth is I guess and get a DE10-nano. That's what I said it'd take, and now they've done it. 

 

Assuming the SNES + enhancement chip performance is correct (and it's something I'm capable of setting up myself) I'll be able to sell my Super Nt and SD2SNES to make up the cost. Keeping the Mega Sg for SegaCD stuff, though. 

 

NeoGeo GitHub link: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NeoGeo_MiSTer

 

SDRAM announcement: 

I bought the 32MB all-in-one just 3 weeks ago, hadn't had the time to even try it ... lol ... time for a new one with 128MB I guess.

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4 hours ago, phoenixdownita said:

I bought the 32MB all-in-one just 3 weeks ago, hadn't had the time to even try it ... lol ... time for a new one with 128MB I guess.

You can use all the cores with 32MB; you would only be missing out on a few games for Neogeo.  It's up to you, but you can always explore everything else before upgrading.

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On 9/7/2019 at 5:04 AM, Newsdee said:

You can use all the cores with 32MB; you would only be missing out on a few games for Neogeo.  It's up to you, but you can always explore everything else before upgrading.

I'm really hoping that 128MBs has some impact on other cores as well... That would be amazing if it could add more power to the 486 core!

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Hi,

 

During the last weeks many people are starting to be interested in Mister. If you have a limited budget and cannot allow to buy every RGB-modded system + flashcart, it sounds like the perfect retro gaming device. I am still reluctant to enter into it for a couple of reasons:

 

  1. One of the main developers does not seem to have lag issues among his main priorities (to say the least). See post in atari-forum http://92.222.181.53/viewtopic.php?f=117&t=34953&sid=830682cd0116b28859b5973a1dbb3f68#p361485. A perfect lag experience is one of the main faces of hi fidelity hardware simulation and that IS the whole point of FPGA-based systems for someone who just wants to play. If you do not care about lag, the only point for using FPGA systems is to preserve hardware schematics and layouts, which maybe ok for some, but for others the whole thing missess the point, as there are many emulation alternatives available... By the way, someone please explain me how people who seem to be so demanding in terms of fidelity to original hardware uses wireless controllers...
  2. Everything is changing very quick (which is not a bad thing). However if those changes affect hardware, it is really is an issue for someone who is thinking of buying. We have just seen that with the new needs for 128 SDRAM (which is ok), but also it seems that the I/O board may not even be necessary for analog output?
  3. This reminds me a lot of the situation in raspberry-pi devices like the RGB-Pi. And I perfectly understand the technological differences between them. At first everything looks spectacular, then you see small performance differences vs original hardware, then the lag is not quite the same, some cores never get to the point, etc.

Disclaimer:

  • I perfectly understand how wonderful Analogue systems are
  • I perfectly understand that there is a community working on Mister FPGA it on a for free basis, so all my respect to them. Really.
  • I perfectly understand that most of the cores are still in work in progress
  • I perfectly understand that Mister may not be for me and that is ok. I am just stating the reasons why I think it is not for me at this point in time. I am just giving my opinion. For free.

Please change my mind.

Edited by Burt_Lancaster
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Burt,

 

I think these two links will address your low-lag concerns: 

https://bliss-box.net/integration/ (a box that works with LLAPI)

https://github.com/Kitrinx/LLAPI/blob/master/LLIO.sv (the code is already included in recent MiSTer releases)

 

The IO board is a separate purchase, so skip it and get an HDMI to VGA adapter, as long as it has audio breakout. It's like $10 instead of $50 or so. You probably should still get a fan.

 

I received a bunch of parts today, but I'm not quite ready to assemble. I have the DE10-nano, an OTG hub, a 32 MB SDRAM (which I got for cheap, and will hang onto in case 128 MB takes a while), and a passive heatsink for the FPGA. I think that's enough to get up and running on the card that came with the DE10-nano, but a 32 GB micro SD card will arrive tomorrow along with a wireless Amazon Basics keyboard that'll let me set it up. I'm going to use an 8bitdo Retro Set for SNES with it as a gamepad. 

 

To me (and just like Burt had his opinion, this is only mine) the issue with Retro Pie has never been input latency, it's been audio latency. And that's true of the NES/SNES Classic as well. It's outlined in My Life in Gaming's NES Classic video, and it absolutely drove me nuts. My hope is that it's not an issue with MiSTer, and in that case I'll be selling a whole bunch of stuff that will be suddenly redundant. 

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13 hours ago, Burt_Lancaster said:
  1. One of the main developers does not seem to have lag issues among his main priorities (to say the least).
  2. It seems that the I/O board may not even be necessary for analog output?
  3. Some cores never get to the point, etc.

The post you link to is many months old. The reason 2 is on the table is because the developer for 1 is experimenting an alternative way to output native video frequencies from the HDMI port,

so that people are not forced to buy an I/O board if they want to connect to a CRT and bypass the HDMI scaler (giving a completely lag free experience).

It is experimental and not yet supported by all cores, but is an attempt to simplify the setup since it's easier to source HDMI to VGA adapters than IO boards.

 

The litmus test for lag has very often been whether Tyson in Punch-Out was beatable, and as you can see in this thread, he is beatable on HDMI using a wired USB controller.

If that is not enough, the DE10 can be connected to a CRT (via adapter or IO board) and connect to original controllers for some cores (e.g. NES and SNES, via some extra expansion hardware).

Those extensions are optional, so I'd recommend first trying the lag-free video modes of HDMI (i.e. no framebuffer) and making your own opinion first.

 

In terms of core maturity, my advice has always been to buy based on the current state of the device, not some hypothetical future state.

You are free to decide to not get a DE10 if you find a specific core is lacking, but that does not detract from all the cores that are already excellent (SNES, NES, Genesis, Neogeo, Amiga, etc.)

 

I totally respect if you feel it's not for you. At the same time, I believe the concerns that you raise are already addressed by the current state of the project.

 

Edited by Newsdee
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