MiSTer FPGA

[Keatah]

Good to see another MiSTer setup in action. I'm way way behind in setting up mine. Hopefully I can do something this summer. My plan is to build it into one of my SoftwareEmulation PCs, thus having the best of both worlds in one box. The PC is of a SmallFormFactor style, so that makes it much more challenging in fitting stuff in there. I definitely don't want a monster-size box consuming the entire living room and spilling out into the kitchen and garage!!

 

Part of the fun I had early on with SE was the curation part. Picking and reliving the arcade classics that were truly thought to be long gone and forgotten. It was like playing Zaxxon for the last time in the early 80's and simply not seeing it anywhere else. Then all of a sudden MAME burst onto the scene and, well, here we are! MiSTer is but an extension of that state of affairs.

Edited April 11, 2021 by Keatah

[Keatah]

I have a general question about MiSTer's headroom. How much is there? I mean how complex of a system do we think it can handle? This is most likely based on the amount of gates and what the cores are using.

[youxia]

It's been said that PSX core (which is being worked on) is probably the console limit. 486/A1200 for computers, though they are now trying something called "hybrid emulation: where ARM is doing some heavy lifting, to possibly aid these cores.

 

I would love to really see Saturn/N64/Jaguar cores, since these are the ones where emulation is lacking. But they're also crazily complex. In the future  this project will move to some new FPGA board, so maybe then.

[Keatah]

That's what I was kinda asking. How much life is left in the current board? And how much resynthesizing of the cores will need to be done with a move to more capable hardware.

 

With SoftwareEmulation it's usually nothing. With FPGA its usually a complete redo.

[BoatofCar]

On 4/12/2021 at 6:26 AM, Keatah said:

That's what I was kinda asking. How much life is left in the current board? And how much resynthesizing of the cores will need to be done with a move to more capable hardware.

 

With SoftwareEmulation it's usually nothing. With FPGA its usually a complete redo.

Weren't some of the MiSTer cores ported over from the MiST? 

[youxia]

On 4/12/2021 at 12:26 PM, Keatah said:

That's what I was kinda asking. How much life is left in the current board? And how much resynthesizing of the cores will need to be done with a move to more capable hardware.

 

With SoftwareEmulation it's usually nothing. With FPGA its usually a complete redo.

The board is subsidized, and nobody can tell for how long that will go on. The cores are open source and written in universal FPGA language so it should be easy to move them to a new board. Yeah, some, if not most, cores have been ported from MiST, and also from other platforms.

 

To be honest, more juice is always good, but this board already covers nearly everything. And there's no guarantee that if we moved to a more powerful one things like Saturn core would appear. And past that I'd imagine it will take many years before something like PS2 or Xbox is possible.

 

Today I read that the first instance of  Attract Mode frontend is available. S'funny, I recall that in the past some of the more zealous fans saying that they don't want any frontends like in emulation, because MiSTer is more "pure" this way

Edited April 13, 2021 by youxia

[+5-11under]

5 minutes ago, youxia said:

Today I read that the first instance of  Attract Mode frontend is available. S'funny, I recall that in the past some of the more zealous fans saying that they don't want any frontends like in emulation, because MiSTer is more "pure" this way

I do like the current simplicity, but on the other hand, if things like manuals and pictures were available (and easily added/downloaded), that would be pretty cool, too.

 

[youxia]

14 minutes ago, 5-11under said:

I do like the current simplicity, but on the other hand, if things like manuals and pictures were available (and easily added/downloaded), that would be pretty cool, too.

 

Well, it's an option, you can choose one or the other.  Back then, it was just a lame argument in the vs emulation war.

[Keatah]

An amusing point of contention.. All those zealots and loudmouths complaining about purity.. FPGA simulation and Software Emulation are equally fake and no more real than a 3rd party remake.

 

So complaining about a front-end? Liken it to a 1st world problem!

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Keatah

[+remowilliams]

(I did post this in the 7800 forum, but it's worth a cross post here for visibility and topic)

 

 

For those who are new to the world of MiSTer - you don't have to go all in with bells and whistles right out of the gate, you can start minimally and still have an awesome MiSTer.  I just made this one out of my spare DE10-nano, an extra older handmade 64MB SDRAM board, and a case printed from the nifty Prusa Galaxy Black filament.  Adding a homemade Daemonbite to the mix gives super low latency DB9 controller input as well.

 

 

[NeonSpaceBeagle]

There is something so incredibly off-putting about the whole mister thing..  I can't place my finger on it though.  

[Pokeypy]

Haven't read all 12 pages now, but why does it have to be so small?

Why not construct it (I mean already the mainboard) for an ordinary desktop case like the one of the Amiga 2000 or a 486?

(Or the slightly smaller size of the Amiga 1000 may be nice.)

So that I can put the monitor on top of it.

Maybe the cooling could be done in a different way then too (because of more available space). Would be very nice, if it could become fan-less (and therefore silent).

 

Something like this (he still has got a fan in there though ). But he's a an electronics and soldering professional. I couldn't build such a setup myself. But I'd like to buy one, if it was for sale:

 

 

Oh, and I'd like to use the monitor (on top of the Mister then) for such a system as well as for my main PC (a tower standing on the floor besides the desk). So it would be nice, if the "Desktop Mister" had some facility, to lead the main PC's signal to the monitor too (and a switch to select which computer uses the monitor). Now that would be awesome.

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Pokeypy

[youxia]

23 minutes ago, Pokeypy said:

Haven't read all 12 pages now, but why does it have to be so small?

Why not construct it (I mean already the mainboard) for an ordinary desktop case like the one of the Amiga 2000 or a 486?

That is a truly bizzare request Make the board really big, so somebody can put a monitor on the case? As you can see in the video, you can do it anyway, no matter what the board size (the main DE10 Nano boards are manufactured by a huge company, by the way).

 

If you really need to have a monitor stand, you can just shove MiSTer into any old box and lead the cables out. There's no need for any soldering, unless you want a very fancy setup like the one in the video. The buttons aren't required, since you can do it all from keyboard. A little fan is extremely quiet, some say just a heatsink is enough anyway.

 

You can also buy VGA switches for 2 sources -> 1 monitor.

 

 

[Keatah]

2 hours ago, Pokeypy said:

Haven't read all 12 pages now, but why does it have to be so small?

Why not? It's present-day commodity technology.

 

2 hours ago, Pokeypy said:

Why not construct it (I mean already the mainboard) for an ordinary desktop case like the one of the Amiga 2000 or a 486?

Because there is no need to make it bigger and more expensive than it is.

 

2 hours ago, Pokeypy said:

I couldn't build such a setup myself. But I'd like to buy one, if it was for sale:

You can always commission someone to aggregate the parts, assemble it all into a turn-key box for you.

[Keatah]

2 hours ago, NeonSpaceBeagle said:

There is something so incredibly off-putting about the whole mister thing..  I can't place my finger on it though.  

How so? There's gotta be "something".. What is it?

[schnuth]

There is something so incredibly off-putting about the whole mister thing..  I can't place my finger on it though.  

Try it, you’ll like it!

[Pokeypy]

5 hours ago, youxia said:

That is a truly bizzare request Make the board really big, so somebody can put a monitor on the case? As you can see in the video, you can do it anyway, no matter what the board size (the main DE10 Nano boards are manufactured by a huge company, by the way).

Well, when you think about it (and have grown up in the 80s): How should such a machine, that represents all those classics, look like?

Like a small chunk? Or like the more exclusive computers looked back then?

Also, the space on my computer desk is limited. Now I use books to raise my monitor to a certain height. I could use a classic desktop computer instead. But I don't have space to keep on using the books and put another piece of gear next to them.

You could put a small board in a large case. It's done in TheC64 Maxi, for example (which I actually quite like). They also added a heavy piece of metal, just to give the computer a C64 like weight.

Anyway, there shouldn't be a much too small piece of hardware wiggling around in the case. So I still think, a motherboard that would fit into a classic desktop computer case would be best. Second best for the Mister would be a solution like TheC64 Maxi, just with a desktop case.

But the way it is now, I won't go for the Mister. Because already its form factor shows, that its creators have rather different views on the subject than me. For example, I would have avoided the fan at all cost.

Because none of these computers, like the A500, the A8, the C64 and so on, had one. Which was one of their main advantages, and is still even today.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Pokeypy

[+5-11under]

Pokeypy, it sounds like maybe you should read all the pages, or at least watch a video or two. It's built from a subsidized FPGA development board, and doesn't need a fan, and there's options besides the "stack" you often see.

[youxia]

That "stack" image is a real curse. Makes people think you need to spend big money to use MiSTer.

 

That aside from people who won't buy it, because the design which makes sense to 99% of us won't suit their weird desktop arrangement plans

 

Also, "Wow, C64 is such an amazing, bestselling machine, because it doesn't have a fan!" - said nobody, ever.

[Keatah]

Dude! I can't take it anymore!

 

I was thinking one could drill holes in an old ATX motherboard and use standoffs to mount MiSTer. It's small enough to look like a motherboard component to begin with. Right? Put some RGB in there to modernize the whole shebang!

 

The mobo is now an adapter that fits any ATX case out there.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Keatah

[SegaSnatcher]

With Newsdee's permission I would like to share a Discord server I recently made called "FPGAming" which focuses on MiSTer and Analogue devices.  Would love to grow the community with fellow enthusiasts of FPGA powered devices. Happy Gaming!

https://discord.gg/cj3yKDm2ex

Edited April 23, 2021 by SegaSnatcher

[youxia]

On 4/13/2021 at 7:13 PM, youxia said:

Today I read that the first instance of  Attract Mode frontend is available. S'funny, I recall that in the past some of the more zealous fans saying that they don't want any frontends like in emulation, because MiSTer is more "pure" this way

I was talking rot here. This Attract Mode for MiSTer is not actually the well-known frontend, but a different project. It's supposed to be a screen-saver of sorts, starting a new random game every 2 minutes when the machine is idle

 

https://github.com/mrchrisster/MiSTer_SAM

[BoatofCar]

On 4/20/2021 at 4:47 AM, youxia said:

That "stack" image is a real curse. Makes people think you need to spend big money to use MiSTer.

 

Agreed. You can get running on much less than the "stack."

 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by BoatofCar

[Pokeypy]

On 4/19/2021 at 7:28 PM, Pokeypy said:

Why not construct it ... for an ordinary desktop case like the one of the Amiga 2000 or a 486? (Or the slightly smaller size of the Amiga 1000 may be nice.) So that I can put the monitor on top of it.

The creator of the "Checkmate" case has now created another, slightly smaller desktop case, that's (better) suitable for putting in FPGA systems.

The Youtube RMC installs for example the Amiga FPGA "Vampire V4 standalone" into it. Without opening the Vampire's tiny case.

Just what I wanted. Not sure if you can do it just like that with a MiSTer, but I hope so:

 

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by Pokeypy

[juansolo]

On 4/19/2021 at 9:00 PM, Keatah said:

Because there is no need to make it bigger and more expensive than it is.

Indeed, it's subsidised by Intel IIRC and would be dramatically more expensive otherwise. It's a kit supposed to get people into developing FPGA (https://software.intel.com/content/www/us/en/develop/topics/iot/hardware/fpga-de10-nano.html). In that regard it's a lot like the RPi, just the tech here is a lot more expensive.