MiSTer FPGA

[turboxray]

On 9/17/2021 at 12:20 PM, Keatah said:

MiSTer, to me, has always always had the air of DIY about it. And it's still a new and developing platform. Still on the frontier. That's how I see it.

Physically, maybe, but that's not really the point of MisTer. It's the cores and accuracy being developed for it by the community. It's literally the MAME of the FPGA world. Because of that, I've never seen it as specifically a DIY thing - it's a collaboration thing,

Edited September 20, 2021 by turboxray

[Keatah]

DIY in that the end user still has to play technician. Perhaps equally for MAME and MiSter. Evidenced by many people asking me to set this stuff up for them.

 

None of those two are:

1- Open the box.

2- Plug it in.

3- Play.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Keatah

[NE146]

12 hours ago, Keatah said:

DIY in that the end user still has to play technician. Perhaps equally for MAME and MiSter. Evidenced by many people asking me to set this stuff up for them.

Well at least for me compared to a Raspberry Pi/Retropie.. the MiSter was 1000% easier to set up especially with the auto scripts they have that download the arcade roms for you. I thought of it as almost plug and play.... except for transferring console roms over.

 

I have yet to even read one readme about how to setup the MiSter (e.g. I couldn't tell you where to put a custom core, etc., or where the config files are yet).. I watched one youtube vid of a guy launching the auto-setup and mine was done and still going. As opposed to the Retropie which took days of careful reading and tinkering & tweaking.

Edited September 20, 2021 by NE146

[youxia]

13 hours ago, derFunkenstein said:

This is extremely impressive

Yeah, Saturn core will be a huge coup for MiSTer. It's one of these tricky machines (like N64) where emulation is still sketchy.

 

There's also new PSX core in the works, by a new dev who is starting from scratch (the old effort kinda collapsed) and it looks extremely promising already.

 

[turboxray]

18 hours ago, Keatah said:

DIY in that the end user still has to play technician. Perhaps equally for MAME and MiSter. Evidenced by many people asking me to set this stuff up for them.

 

None of those two are:

1- Open the box.

2- Plug it in.

3- Play.

Well, it literally has a connection to a server that auto-updates all the cores for you - one of the most awesome features ever haha. And to play games, you just plop them onto an SD card. It's easier than MAME ever was in the past. The MisTer has a lil bit of complexity when first setting it up (mostly just formatting the SD card). But "DIY" is not a synonym for complexity. I bought mine pre-built.. case and everything. There was nothing DIY about it from my end. It's customizable and community driven. The only DIY part would be if you were 3D printing the case or such.

[Steven Pendleton]

How are the arcade cores in general? Anything that's definitely super accurate/super broken/anything like that? All I'm really interested in are the arcade cores, X68000, and Vectrex, so hopefully most of those are really good by now.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Steven Pendleton

[youxia]

Most arcade cores are pretty tight, with some minor bugs at most (eg some sounds in Space Invaders). X68000 is reported to be working but from what I heard I wouldn't call this core mature yet. Not sure about Vetrex, it's one of the few I haven't tried yet.

[zetastrike]

Is there a way to use the USB keyboard as an in game controller?  I got a nice mechanical keyboard last month that I would like to use to control games, but it doesn't work in the Mister.  It allows me to map controls to the keyboard inside of any core, but once I exit the OSD, the keys I just mapped do nothing.

[+remowilliams]

These little repurposed retina displays are neat

 

[NE146]

4 hours ago, remowilliams said:

These little repurposed retina displays are neat

 

Hey man how are you using the M30? I wouldn't mind using mine for the Mister. 

[+remowilliams]

21 minutes ago, NE146 said:

Hey man how are you using the M30? I wouldn't mind using mine for the Mister. 

 

That particular one in the picture is a M30 2.4g USB model so it's straightforward.

 

I also have a M30 2.4g Genesis (DB9) and for that guy I can use the Sega dual Daemonbite that I built.

 

 

 

[NE146]

12 minutes ago, remowilliams said:

 

That particular one in the picture is a M30 2.4g USB model so it's straightforward.

 

I also have a M30 2.4g Genesis (DB9) and for that guy I can use the Sega dual Daemonbite that I built.

Cool man. Yeah right now I am using the TurboGrafx Mini, or Genesis Mini pad, both of which are USB of course.  But yeah I'm thinking it's time to step up my controller game but I must have missed the memo on the best way to do it.  

 

Right now I have this USB dongle which just hangs out precariously, and then a friggin keyboard and pad connected to it. It just seems so fragile and is also ugly.  Do you have a keyboard always at hand when you play the mister? It seems you can't really do much without one attached.. am I wrong?

 

 

[+remowilliams]

1 hour ago, NE146 said:

Cool man. Yeah right now I am using the TurboGrafx Mini, or Genesis Mini pad, both of which are USB of course.  But yeah I'm thinking it's time to step up my controller game but I must have missed the memo on the best way to do it.  

 

These days you don't have to get too complex, decent USB based controllers are fine for just about everyone.

 

Quote

Right now I have this USB dongle which just hangs out precariously, and then a friggin keyboard and pad connected to it. It just seems so fragile and is also ugly.  Do you have a keyboard always at hand when you play the mister? It seems you can't really do much without one attached.. am I wrong?

 

I use that angled mini connector you see in the picture to avoid having things hanging out the front of the unit.  Yes, I always have a wireless mouse/keyboard combo hooked up.

[NE146]

6 hours ago, remowilliams said:

I use that angled mini connector you see in the picture to avoid having things hanging out the front of the unit. 

May I ask what connector that is? I dig it!

[+remowilliams]

9 hours ago, NE146 said:

May I ask what connector that is? I dig it!

Sure, it's this right angle one.

[Keatah]

MiSTer and DE10 have been out for a while. How long can this specific hardware platform remain viable, keeping in mind the continued production of the board and the goals of the project. At some point, something's going to change.

 

Just used to Intel and the x86 world getting new architecture and platforms every 6-months. By comparison MiSTer seems ancient!

[youxia]

This is completely different than PC space, at least regarding modern gaming and serious productivity where you need to keep upgrading (though not really that often either). MiSTer can emulate certain range of hardware and it will be able to do it 100 years from now just as well. It does not need to change hardware for that, all you can do is keep on improving the cores.

 

Of course there's a limit on its capabilities, so eventually a new board will be adapted (it all depends on price, this one is subsidised) and cores will be ported to that + new ones written.

[turboxray]

7 hours ago, Keatah said:

MiSTer and DE10 have been out for a while. How long can this specific hardware platform remain viable, keeping in mind the continued production of the board and the goals of the project. At some point, something's going to change.

 

Just used to Intel and the x86 world getting new architecture and platforms every 6-months. By comparison MiSTer seems ancient!

Mister isn't a cpu and video card setup like a PC. I get what you're saying, but that's only applicable for systems that it currently can't run in the FPGA core; Dreamcase/PS2/etc. The leap to those systems is magnitudes more, so it's not going to be an upgrade every year or so type of thing. The current systems it emulates, it already does it with more precision than a PC can (or could even hope to at a transistor level). So in that respect, it's not really comparable to PC environment/upgrades/etc life span. The only caveat to that, that I can see, is 4k output and CRT sub-pixel/mask filters. But even in that realm, that just recently hit the scene with retrotink 5x. And you can always used the RGB out of the mister with a retrotink 5x if you wanted that functionality.

[Keatah]

It was recently said that MiSTer development information can help MAME. But MAME development information cannot help MiSTer.

[phoenixdownita]

This pestered me a few times over the years until I found my answer.

 

NeoGeo AeroFighters3/SonicWing3 -> in EU region it's much much harder than US and JP

I got bitten on BananaCart+UniBIOS on NeoSD and now on Mister till I found a page describing how export games on NeoGeo were usually harder (apparently in JP renting was illegal but not so in EU/US so by making the game harder you would not finish it in one seating .....).

 

Anyhow Mister defaults to EU in the NeoGeo core but via UniBIOS once set to US or JP the game AeroFighters3/SonicWing3 does not kick my ass on the very first level .... it makes it for a good gym though, if you learn to survive once you switch region is piece-of-cake.

 

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/AeroFighters quotes
"Difficulty by Region: For some reason, Aero Fighters 3 is locked to the hardest difficulty level when played on the European BIOS."

This one puzzled me for years, I believe due to me sometimes playing on real AES with unibios but no memcard and so default region US (my default AES region) but with memcard + Unibios setting save at region EU (no "winners don't do drug" stuff + english, hence why I thought it was a good idea). My AES also has a physical language switch, I am sure I must have played in JP as well which makes the game also easier without me connecting the dots. I misremembered the language switch, I have it on NeoGeo CD not on my AES that has been equipped with UniBIOS for a while, chances are I have memories of AF3 from Banacart+MVS2AESadapter before I put UniBIOS in (aka US region).

 

I've never realized it 'till much much recently, like 3 days ago (I just recently setup my Mister that I bought like last year).
With the NeoSD can't remember, I just complained on the neo-geo.com forum that the game was too hard when played on it, likely playing EU as well, will have to try again but on Mister the difference is just so freaking obvious (even the gfx changes from flags to airplanes or viceversa on the selection screen between EU/US).

 

I'm sure many more games have this differences, but for NeoGeo is somewhat surprising as all versions are in the same "cart" so to speak vs released specifically after localization ..... 
 

 

 

On other news Jotego released many new CPS2 cores (that were so far only for patreons I guess) .... like 3 or 4 days ago .... mmmmhhhh yummy!!
 

[zetastrike]

12 hours ago, phoenixdownita said:

This pestered me a few times over the years until I found my answer.

 

NeoGeo AeroFighters3/SonicWing3 -> in EU region it's much much harder than US and JP

I got bitten on BananaCart+UniBIOS on NeoSD and now on Mister till I found a page describing how export games on NeoGeo were usually harder (apparently in JP renting was illegal but not so in EU/US so by making the game harder you would not finish it in one seating .....).

 

Anyhow Mister defaults to EU in the NeoGeo core but via UniBIOS once set to US or JP the game AeroFighters3/SonicWing3 does not kick my ass on the very first level .... it makes it for a good gym though, if you learn to survive once you switch region is piece-of-cake.

 

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/AeroFighters quotes
"Difficulty by Region: For some reason, Aero Fighters 3 is locked to the hardest difficulty level when played on the European BIOS."

This one puzzled me for years, I believe due to me sometimes playing on real AES with unibios but no memcard and so default region US (my default AES region) but with memcard + Unibios setting save at region EU (no "winners don't do drug" stuff + english, hence why I thought it was a good idea). My AES also has a physical language switch, I am sure I must have played in JP as well which makes the game also easier without me connecting the dots.

 

I've never realized it 'till much much recently, like 3 days ago (I just recently setup my Mister that I bought like last year).
With the NeoSD can't remember, I just complained on the neo-geo.com forum that the game was too hard when played on it, likely playing EU as well, will have to try again but on Mister the difference is just so freaking obvious (even the gfx changes from flags to airplanes or viceversa on the selection screen between EU/US).

 

I'm sure many more games have this differences, but for NeoGeo is somewhat surprising as all versions are in the same "cart" so to speak vs released specifically after localization ..... 
 

 

 

On other news Jotego released many new CPS2 cores (that were so far only for patreons I guess) .... like 3 or 4 days ago .... mmmmhhhh yummy!!
 

How do you change the region to Japan?  Whenever I start a Neo Geo game, the bios screen says the region is Europe and I don't see an option to change it.

 

Also, did the AES see a release in Europe or did it only get the MVS cabinets?

[youxia]

Interesting, I didn't know there are such differences in regional difficulty. And yes, I was always a bit surprised at how merciless AF3 is. I think in MAME it also defaults to EU, and it never occured to me to try different bios.

 

@zetastriketry pressing some buttons when Unibios boot shows - on my Dualshock 4 R1 starts the Unibios menu.

 

[phoenixdownita]

8 hours ago, zetastrike said:

How do you change the region to Japan?  Whenever I start a Neo Geo game, the bios screen says the region is Europe and I don't see an option to change it.

 

Also, did the AES see a release in Europe or did it only get the MVS cabinets?

So are you referring to Mister or an actual AES/MVS?

For Mister the default setup is to have UniBIOS alongside the rest, in that case you need press A+B+C during the UniBIOS startup screen http://unibios.free.fr/howitworks.html and you can then select the region that way. I think Mister can also force the region, but I have not tried that path.

 

For a real AES you need UniBIOS, I misremembered my language switch mods are on the NeogeoCD, not the AES (post corrected).

NeoSD/NeoSDPro can do that too but the option is disabled if you have a UniBIOS.

I don't know if there were AES in EU, I assume so because 50/60hz mods on AES are a thing ( https://mmmonkey.co.uk/snk-neo-geo-60hz-mod/) ... but I have never seen one myself.

[Steven Pendleton]

I have absolutely no idea how I did it, but somehow I got my wireless Saturn controller to work on the MiSTer after almost a year of it not working. I think it was something to do with the light being red when it should have been blue, as it seems that blue light = works on MiSTer, although I have no idea what else the light color means. It still makes A be cancel and B be confirm in the menus despite me specifically setting A to confirm and B to cancel, though. Doesn't really matter, though; arcade stick will show up on Wednesday morning and then I'm spending the rest of the day playing DoDonPachi and 1941 Counter Attack (provided it works).

Edited January 3, 2022 by Steven Pendleton

[Newsdee]

On 11/19/2021 at 3:56 PM, Keatah said:

MiSTer and DE10 have been out for a while. How long can this specific hardware platform remain viable, keeping in mind the continued production of the board and the goals of the project. At some point, something's going to change.

The DE-10 would not become obsolete even if new hardware were to be adopted.

The MIST is still viable as an FPGA platform for smaller systems, but it's hard to recommend it since the price point is close to a DE-10 Nano. And the DE-10 can do significantly more than MIST's custom board:

• Built-in HDMI scaler
• ~5x the FPGA space
• Network support
• Barebones Linux OS to control the FPGA and handle all kinds of USB controllers

A successor board would be a more marginal upgrade, for example:

• Faster built-in SDRAM (custom made ones are capped at ~140Mhz)
• More FPGA space

That's about it; things like a richer graphical interface could be done in current hardware (i.e. that is not the bottleneck, and personally I do like the barebones approach of MiSTer's OSD). 

 

TL;DR: the possible upgrades would not prevent the old board from still running existing cores as well as today (with low latency and high accuracy compared to the original systems)

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Newsdee