Incognito - Now's your chance!

[+DrVenkman]

1 hour ago, irich2 said:

+1 thanks to you DrVenkman, for suggesting to keep the IO noise!

I was mostly just being silly in my last post though I really did encourage Jon to keep it in. Thanks really go to him for implementing it in the first place! I have been messing about lately with a C64 that I restored in recent weeks and the crazy-slow disk I/O combined with the fact that data transfer is silent except for movement of the drive or an indication on the screen of a solid state device is very frustrating. It's difficult to know if anything is actually happening, you know? Makes me appreciate the happy accident of Atari's signature SIO noise all the more. 

 

 

[flashjazzcat]

13 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

Thanks really go to him for implementing it in the first place

Were it not for that pesky implementation step, life would be SO much easier.

 

Anyway: good call on the IO noise, since the feature has been broadly welcomed.

[+DrVenkman]

1 minute ago, flashjazzcat said:

Were it not for that pesky implementation step, life would be SO much easier.

Right? I have so many people who think they know better than me how to do my day job, too.

 

2 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

Anyway: good call on the IO noise, since the feature has been broadly welcomed.

Hey, I may not be much of a coder but I know what the kids like.

[Justin Payne]

OK. You got my money. Now I wait.....(is it done yet)?

[Faicuai]

51 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

Right? I have so many people who think they know better than me how to do my day job, too.

 

Hey, I may not be much of a coder but I know what the kids like.

GOOD call, WELL done!!!

 

Credit due where it is due... Enabling PBI noise-synthesis while blasting an .ATR attached from HD/PBI is pure fun! 

 

?

[AtariGeezer]

4 hours ago, Faicuai said:

 

Is the JTAG pin-out diagram on the Ulimate-1MB the same as Incognito? I pre-wired my Xilinx programmer from my last Ultimate-1MB upgrade, but I simply can't find a solid answer...

 

A BIG thanks, in advance!!!

I used a parallel programmer from 100RandomTasks.com that I got off ebay and made my own cable (from 2 different cables: 2x5 2.54mm pitch and a 2x5 2.0mm pitch).

Xilinx Parallel Programmer based on the popular Cable III
http://www.100randomtasks.com/xilinx-parallel-programmer

http://www.xilinx.com/support/download/index.htm
Xilinx Standard Edition is almost 6gb

I only installed the Lab Tools for now
iMPACT software

The 100 Random Tasks is set up as:
1 - VCC ---- 2 GND
3 - TCK ---- 4 GND
5 - TDO ---- 6 GND
7 - TDI ---- 8 GND
9 - TMS ---- 10 GND

JTAG
1 - VCC ---- 2 GND
3 - TCK ---- 4 TDO
5 - TDI ---- 6 TMS
7 - XXX ---- 8 XXX
9 - XXX ---- 10 XXX
[XXX] = not used

Pin#1 is at the top right if you look at it like (parts side):

   9 7 5 3 1
------===------
|  o o o o o  |
|  o o o o o  |
---------------
  10 8 6 4 2

The ribbon cable on the JTag header is much smaller than the programmers' header... 
Pin 1 is Top side on the right - VCC... look closely and you'll see a "1" between VCC and the top right pin... 

 

[toddtmw]

So. Is this not what I want?

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IRODADK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Roydea6]

3 minutes ago, toddtmw said:

So. Is this not what I want?

NO!!

[toddtmw]

3 minutes ago, rdea6 said:

NO!!

Not even for the eclair xl?

 

so, what do I want?

 

links are awesome. Links to us amazon prime eligible items even more so. ? 

 

thanks. 

[AtariGeezer]

5 minutes ago, toddtmw said:

Not even for the eclair xl?

 

so, what do I want?

 

links are awesome. Links to us amazon prime eligible items even more so. ? 

 

thanks. 

If your PC has a parallel port, look above on post #81

[Roydea6]

11 minutes ago, toddtmw said:

links are awesome. Links to us amazon prime eligible items even more so. ? 

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/206610-ultimate-1mb-upgrade/?do=findComment&comment=3569603

 

[Faicuai]

49 minutes ago, AtariGeezer said:

I used a parallel programmer from 100RandomTasks.com that I got off ebay and made my own cable (from 2 different cables: 2x5 2.54mm pitch and a 2x5 2.0mm pitch).

Xilinx Parallel Programmer based on the popular Cable III
http://www.100randomtasks.com/xilinx-parallel-programmer

http://www.xilinx.com/support/download/index.htm
Xilinx Standard Edition is almost 6gb

I only installed the Lab Tools for now
iMPACT software

The 100 Random Tasks is set up as:
1 - VCC ---- 2 GND
3 - TCK ---- 4 GND
5 - TDO ---- 6 GND
7 - TDI ---- 8 GND
9 - TMS ---- 10 GND

JTAG
1 - VCC ---- 2 GND
3 - TCK ---- 4 TDO
5 - TDI ---- 6 TMS
7 - XXX ---- 8 XXX
9 - XXX ---- 10 XXX
[XXX] = not used

Pin#1 is at the top right if you look at it like (parts side):

   9 7 5 3 1
------===------
|  o o o o o  |
|  o o o o o  |
---------------
  10 8 6 4 2

The ribbon cable on the JTag header is much smaller than the programmers' header... 
Pin 1 is Top side on the right - VCC... look closely and you'll see a "1" between VCC and the top right pin... 

 

This is just PERFECT. Easier than shooting the floor.

 

No doubt about the pinout arrangement, on the JTAG side (Incognito). Key for getting cable-connection right on Impact/R14 suite.

 

Now, can I light-up Incognito with just the MMU-ribbon connected (like Ultimate), or does it have to fully inserted and powered from the system bus, as well?

 

THANKS!!!

Edited August 13, 2019 by Faicuai

[AtariGeezer]

I left my Incognito boards installed when updating and didn't have any problems...

Same with SiIDE and U1MB.

Edited August 13, 2019 by AtariGeezer

[Jeffrey Worley]

I occurs to me that I could restore the U1mb to operation, albeit without the updated firmware by pulling the flash rom, installing it in MY U1mb, which is brand new, flashing the chip with the OLD rom, and putting that back in the old U1mb.  When the burners get here, I can flash the chips.

 

Best,

 

Jeff

[toddtmw]

I would like to respectfully request that this conversation be moved to a new thread. I'm following this for incognito updates and am not really interested in Commodore at all. (Others clearly are, which is why if this was in a new thread, it might be able to be read by more people that are interested, but not seeing it because they are not interested in incognito...)

 

@Albert, is it possible to split a thread this way?

 

11 of the last 12 posts have been commodore related.

 

Thank you very much! 

[Albert]

Yes, the thread can be split into two.  I'd just need a title for the new thread and would need to know which posts to split off into the new thread. 

 

 ..Al

[toddtmw]

@DrVenkman @candle thoughts on topic name?

Commodore Disk Drive Discussion

 

Other suggestions?

 

From this thread, posts:

76 (Can we leave this post here and also copy it to the new thread?) Sorry, I know I'm making this as hard as possible...  

89-90

92-100

 

Thanks!

[Faicuai]

1 hour ago, toddtmw said:

I would like to respectfully request that this conversation be moved to a new thread. I'm following this for incognito updates and am not really interested in Commodore at all. (Others clearly are, which is why if this was in a new thread, it might be able to be read by more people that are interested, but not seeing it because they are not interested in incognito...)

 

@Albert, is it possible to split a thread this way?

 

11 of the last 12 posts have been commodore related.

 

Thank you very much! 

Not a bad idea, at all... also PM would do wonders on this case..

 

Now that we are back to Incognito, here are a couple of ideas:

 

1. Can anyone please, confirm if those God-damned Joystick 3 & 4 ports are visible on $D340 area with either old or current JED (on XL/XE mode)? Anyone? (I posted this like 12 "Commodore" posts ago, :-))).
2. Do SIDE's OSS carts run well with latest JED or is the problem related to the Ultimate-centric patches applied to those OSS carts?
3. Newell's RAMROD support (or pseudo-support): I already got it working, manually: I enable Basic on BIOS (Colleen mode), on 52K, then switch to SIDE-Loader, and load $C000-$CFFF accesory roms (OmniMON or OmniVIEW) that I patched with standard load-file headers. Once loaded (and they RUN there!), I switch back to Bios and boot (always with Basic or $A000-$BFFF cart plugged, to act as firewall protecting $C000 from OS erasing / clearing during initial memory sizing / test). Then "run at" or X=USR($C000) activates OmniMON or OmniVIEW, perfectly! QUESTION: any way to protect the $C000-$CFFF range on Collen mode from erasures? In other words, being able to make it read-write and then read-only (without pulling it out from its address-range?)
4. Last but not least: Could a (theoretical) smart RIGHT cartridge (on $8000-$9FFF address space) be enabled or disabled from either BIOS and/or SIDE-Loader? Could it also read config. registers from BIOS, so it performs a programmed list of tasks, and then self-disappears, just like the amazing ACE80-800?

THANKS all, in advance, for your kind attention!

Edited August 14, 2019 by Faicuai

[+DrVenkman]

I have no preference. I was just replying to others' comments and trying to help out Candle.  

[flashjazzcat]

9 hours ago, Faicuai said:

Can anyone please, confirm if those God-damned Joystick 3 & 4 ports are visible on $D340 area with either old or current JED (on XL/XE mode)?

I get nothing yet.

9 hours ago, Faicuai said:

Do SIDE's OSS carts run well with latest JED or is the problem related to the Ultimate-centric patches applied to those OSS carts?

I didn't know there was a problem, but I just took the case off a SIDE2 here and yes: the OSS ROMs appear to work perfectly well in my Incognito 800 with the latest JED.

 

Pass on 3. Regarding 4: use a real right cart?

[_The Doctor__]

9 hours ago, Faicuai said:

Last but not least: Could a (theoretical) smart RIGHT cartridge (on $8000-$9FFF address space) be enabled or disabled from either BIOS and/or SIDE-Loader? Could it also read config. registers from BIOS, so it performs a programmed list of tasks, and then self-disappears, just like the amazing ACE80-800?

do you mean have a RIGHT cartridge in side/incognito rom slot that you can set the bios to activate the cart at power up... let it execute a batch file of tasks and then when done the batch calls the bios to shut itself off and cold boot with your normal saved incognito/side settings?

 

That's a wonderful idea and sounds possible, but who knows how much space is left for that sort of thing in BIOS and what all would be needed to move it all around. I know who would know... FJC... sounds like a heck of a re write... I don't think it's happening... you never know...

 

or do you mean have incognito activate a Right Cartridge already in that slot of the 800 that you can set the bios to activate the cart at power up... let it execute a batch file of tasks and then when done the batch calls the bios to shut itself off and cold boot with your normal saved incognito/side settings?

 

That's a wonderful idea also, sounds possible, but who knows how much space is left for that sort of thing in BIOS and what all would be needed to move it all around. I know who would know... FJC... sounds like a heck of a re write... I don't think it's happening... you never know...

Edited August 15, 2019 by _The Doctor__

[Faicuai]

2 hours ago, flashjazzcat said:

I get nothing yet.

I didn't know there was a problem, but I just took the case off a SIDE2 here and yes: the OSS ROMs appear to work perfectly well in my Incognito 800 with the latest JED.

 

Pass on 3. Regarding 4: use a real right cart?

Clear, as always. Thanks!!

 

Now, from the above I take:

1. No-one here, then, really knows what is going on (or not) with Joystick 3+4 ports registers or, simply put, where exactly are they... It does not seem that they exist around $D340.
2. No one here seems to know why $D013 reads fuzzy on Incognito, an why not on Ultimate (asked this way ablove, and never got answered...) It is because of underlaying Colleen architecture?
3. YES. a real RIGHT-cart. For practical purposes, call it X/Bios. Not because it will also handle lower-level integration, but, instead, lower level TASKS for which we no longer have space on main BIOS (and for which main code runs in little RAM space):
   1. Remember Peter's wish for multi-format / multi-media transfer function?
   2. Downloading US-Doubler emulator for Indus/GT, or Super-Synchro mesh?
   3. Advanced disk-duplication and archiving?
   4. Overall system performance and benchmarking?
   5. Enabling 80-cols. emulators for non-SDX environments?
   6. Real time RAM / ROM inspection
   7. Low-level, comprehensive system diagnostics, including Incognito / Ultimate...
4. All of the above (and more) without ever touching the LEFT-port (zero-contention), and then self-disappearing after completion. It could be permanently residing on RIGHT-port (and we can already boot them reliably, and effectively, on XL/XE mode, though). It will need, however, its own configuration menu ( to control its work), and to be disabled or enabled (on its address range) externally, ideally from main BIOS.

Hope you get the idea... and maybe expand from it... That would be SWEET !

 

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by Faicuai

[flashjazzcat]

None of that list really requires the configuration to be unlocked, and anything that does can be accomplished using a diagnostic cart run with the 'Boot diagnostic cart' feature I just fixed.  Any flash cartridge capable of disabling itself in software and running in the right slot can do anything you like. However, since in four years no-one (myself included) has had the time or inclination to write anything to take advantage of said 'Boot diagnostic cart' feature (which would have revealed the fact it didn't work, LOL)...

 

As for firmware control: there is no room left for more goodies in the BIOS. The U1MB has plugins which can do what you like, but the Self-Test ROM is not usable with the config unlocked on the Incognito (unlike the U1MB... making Incognito's CPLD work the same way would provide an extra 2K of BIOS code space). Make a special cartridge which does all this stuff and saves its configuration in battery-backed RAM or in flash memory.

Edited August 15, 2019 by flashjazzcat

[Faicuai]

36 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

None of that list really requires the configuration to be unlocked, and anything that does can be accomplished using a diagnostic cart run with the 'Boot diagnostic cart' feature I just fixed.  Any flash cartridge capable of disabling itself in software and running in the right slot can do anything you like. However, since in four years no-one (myself included) has had the time or inclination to write anything to take advantage of said 'Boot diagnostic cart' feature (which would have revealed the fact it didn't work, LOL)...

 

As for firmware control: there is no room left for more goodies in the BIOS. The U1MB has plugins which can do what you like, but the Self-Test ROM is not usable with the config unlocked on the Incognito (unlike the U1MB... making Incognito's CPLD work the same way would provide an extra 2K of BIOS code space). Make a special cartridge which does all this stuff and saves its configuration in battery-backed RAM or in flash memory.

 

Ok, If passing control via "Boot Diagnosic Cart", you would need to include (same) presence checks for $8000-$9FFF range (bytes $9FFA-$9FFF to be specific), so you can boot that cart from either right or left. LEFT port does not work for this idea, because it creates contention on single-port machines (unless cart hung from the PBI bus in the back). It would be leveraging the 800's architecture strengths.

 

As for firmware control, I refer to "awake" the cart. And bring it back to the bus... because a self-disappearing cart usually does NOT come-back to the bus, unless you power-cyhcle. We don't necessarily want that. Instead, go to Bios and flip and option to awake it... That would be as sweet as it can be...

 

(NOTEL: yes, of course, it would be a flashable / reprogrammable cart, and also YES, I love the idea of modifying current Incognito's CPLD to gain access those extra 2K of BIOS space, on Self-Test rom area... Could hardly think of any better place to bring this forward that other than right here...

Edited August 15, 2019 by Faicuai

[flashjazzcat]

The idea behind 'Boot diagnostic cart' is that you have an issue and you want to diagnose it. I imagined - in my naivety - that on Incognito and U1MB machines alike, you'd plug in the diagnostic cart, turn the machine on, jump directly into the BIOS and choose 'Boot diagnostic cart'. When done, the user would take the cartridge out of the left cart slot and put it away until the next time it was needed.

 

Now that the U1MB firmware can selectively toggle the presence or absence of the SIDE/SIDE2 ROM, I toyed with the idea of making it bring a previously suppressed ROM back in software... but eventually I thought this would complicate things and potentially create issues with other flash carts. So the way to bring - for example - the SIDE2 ROM back is to enable it and then power-cycle the machine (or press the cart button, which resets both SDX and external cart ROMs to bank #0).

 

Note there is a 'cart reset' U1MB plugin (kindly written by Marcin) already, which allows AtariMax carts to be reset to bank #0 in software right from the BIOS menu. If the extra 2K of ROM space in Incognito was made usable, the Incognito could have plugins too. Never mind that the Incognito doesn't have an IO header... there are many other uses for plugins.

 

The behaviour of SIDE ROM management can be changed (i.e. made to re-activate previously suppressed ROMs) simply by amending the plugin as well. That's the beauty of keeping all the device-specific code in the plugin module.