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Incognito - Now's your chance!

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6 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

I think there's a complement in there somewhere. :) If you wish to bypass the video entirely, you can follow any one of the numerous links in the video description which point to illustrated, written installation guides. There's one by Candle on which the video itself is based, and a nice guide written by Mopar Stephen.

This is one of the things I pointed out in the addendum video, which I haven't linked here yet... so here it is:

 

Note that at the end of the video I mention that I hope the observations regarding wire colouring and length, connector type, etc, are not regarded as contentious (since the points raised are not necessarily my own concerns, but clarifications intended to help people who had already pointed out some of these issues in video comments and social media posts). There appeared to be some expectation among customers that what was delivered would be identical to what was featured in the first two videos, regardless of the fact the first two videos were produced before anyone had received a board, and before I had seen the supplied wiring.

Yeah, that's a bit silly.  These are not consumer products per se, they are products intended for consumers once properly installed.  That the wire colors differ is to be expected in a small production run, and I wouldn't trust a simple color-for-color diagram even if I was expecting it to work.  I want what you gave in your video, which is "color (p2 pin 6 to Antic pin 15).  My pin was Black, your's was some other color.  No biggie.

 

Worth mentioning to the folks in TV land is that the pin 1 for the P2 header on the Incognito is nicely marked with a square solder pad on the back side.

 

Best,

 

Jeff

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Oh, I should mention, the video is super clear, but the legends mentioned for the pullup resistors (replaced with 2k) are NOT RD4 and RD5, but are in fact R104 and R105, and these legends, at least on my board, are obscured by the card slot such that you'd have to desolder the slot to read them.  R105 is the resistor nearest the edge of the board, with R104 immediately adjacent.  If you watch the video and just dumbly follow along, you'll do the right thing, but it is good to know the precise location and label of these parts.  I went through that section of the video several times to ensure I got the right wire to the right resistor, but I'm thinking, and I could well be wrong, that it doesn't matter which one for which wire?  These are pullups, so maybe ecumenical?

 

Another thing to note for installers, is that it is probably easy to think  you have got the install right without actually wiring anything right.  The board works without the header installed at all.  I don't know what is broken without the header, but probably something.  Can Flashjazzcat cast any fur on this?

 

best

 

Jeff

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1 minute ago, Technoid Mutant said:

the legends mentioned for the pullup resistors (replaced with 2k) are NOT RD4 and RD5, but are in fact R104 and R105

The legends do not refer to what's on the silkscreen. You'll notice that 'IRQ', 'RNMI', 'RDY' and 'HALT' do not appear anywhere on the motherboard either. :) They are all signal names. Hopefully it's fairly difficult to work on completely the wrong area of the board.

4 minutes ago, Technoid Mutant said:

The board works without the header installed at all

The HALT and RDY jumpers are entirely superfluous unless (IIRC) one is using ANTIC banking with memory expansion schemes which support it, or perhaps some PBI devices. RD4 and RD5 are required so that the state of the external cartridge can be managed by the CPLD (usually via SDX). IRQ may be for external PBI device support (I don't know offhand); RNMI pertains to reset handling, but since NMI and RNMI are tied together anyway, you may only notice this wire is missing in Colleen mode (or vice versa... I have no idea).

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22 minutes ago, Technoid Mutant said:

but I'm thinking, and I could well be wrong, that it doesn't matter which one for which wire?

Oh - nearly missed this. I would stick to the wiring RD4/RD5 as documented. 16K cartridges will certainly thank you for it. :)

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2 hours ago, Technoid Mutant said:

I have four more to go.  It is really easy to do.  Flashjazz Cat's video is comprehensive, but, mercifully, he includes single-frame freezes of pin-for-pin wiring so you don't have to watch the video.  If you are comfortable, you can just go by the lists and be done.  The hardest part, aside from disassembling the machine, is routing the cables.  You have to make a notch in the plastic card cage, and route the cables through there and through the edge of the card slot leading to the Incognito.  I think I will put my leds and switch inside the lid, so I can see/access them through the cooling vents.  The power board mod is cool, but looks like a pain in the butt.

 

NOTE TO ALL INSTALLERS:

 

The wires leading to the CPU board, leading to Antic Pins 9 and 15 are too short for the older version of the cpu board.  If you have the Sally version, you are just fine, but if you have the earlier version of the board, note that the Antic position is different on this board than the one in the video and if you just blindly follow the screen without looking at what part you are soldering to, you will end up wiring to the GTIA instead of Antic.  Secondly, when you try to route the cables, you will discover that the difference in location requires longer wires.  I had to extend my two wires ( these are the ones leading from P2 pins 1 and 6) a couple of inches to make up the difference.  So beware before you begin to determine if you have Sally, or if you have the pre-sally board, Identify your Antic (CO12296).  (If you find CO12297 instead, someone has replaced the Antic at some point, but that will not affect your install the slightest).

 

Best,

 

Jeff

 

Generally speaking, it is preferable not to hot-soldering anything directly to an active-component's pin (like CPU, etc.)

 

It would be better to study the routing of the traces on the board and find near-by soldering pads that not only would address the above, but may also shorten the distance, as well. Not sure about the older-version CPU boards, but this is how it looks on the latest ones:

 

BD38A9CD-FDA1-4C6B-8041-EEFD64C68A8F.thumb.jpeg.75edbc00d65ba3a441fd70ccdd59f32a.jpeg

 

You will end-up with cleaner soldering, and maybe shorter path, also.

6434EEAF-6BBA-4739-892B-5319DDA07349.jpeg

Edited by Faicuai

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2 hours ago, flashjazzcat said:

I think there's a complement in there somewhere. :) If you wish to bypass the video entirely, you can follow any one of the numerous links in the video description which point to illustrated, written installation guides. There's one by Candle on which the video itself is based, and a nice guide written by Mopar Stephen.

This is one of the things I pointed out in the addendum video, which I haven't linked here yet... so here it is:

 

Note that at the end of the video I mention that I hope the observations regarding wire colouring and length, connector type, etc, are not regarded as contentious (since the points raised are not necessarily my own concerns, but clarifications intended to help people who had already pointed out some of these issues in video comments and social media posts). There appeared to be some expectation among customers that what was delivered would be identical to what was featured in the first two videos, regardless of the fact the first two videos were produced before anyone had received a board, and before I had seen the supplied wiring.

 

I will add that the inclusion of pin numbers (absent from Candle's illustration) on the wiring diagrams in the videos was a last-minute decision which has proved in retrospect to be a rather prudent move.

 

No JTAG header on-board? I wonder what was the thinking behind that?  In this case, I suppose all reported issues better be cured by now... 

 

Also, and It seems now a relevant question, I actually wonder if there are OTHER changes, like the PIN-OUT headers order (at the board-level itself), just in case anyone here does not blow the new board if connected to a previous install (1st-gen)...

 

I hope that is not the case, of course....

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2 minutes ago, Faicuai said:

No JTAG header on-board? I wonder what was the thinking behind that?

I have no idea. I have connectors here, so can fit them where they are missing. Several people have pointed out that their boards have JTAG connectors, so perhaps the one in the video was a one-off. Unfortunately I can only describe what I have in front of my eyes, so even if every other board has the JTAG connector present, it doesn't change the fact that the one which made it onto YouTube first did not. :)

5 minutes ago, Faicuai said:

I actually wonder if there are OTHER changes, like the PIN-OUT headers order (at the board-level itself)

There are no such catastrophically foolish changes, as evidenced by the explanatory note I posted as a pinned comment under the first video after I learned that the different colour scheme of the wires was a cause for confusion among some customers. Pin assignments have not changed one bit. The only change I failed to point out in the addendum video is the fact the DS1305 crystal has been replaced with an SMD equivalent.

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2 hours ago, Technoid Mutant said:

Yeah, that's a bit silly.  These are not consumer products per se, they are products intended for consumers once properly installed.  That the wire colors differ is to be expected in a small production run, and I wouldn't trust a simple color-for-color diagram even if I was expecting it to work.  I want what you gave in your video, which is "color (p2 pin 6 to Antic pin 15).  My pin was Black, your's was some other color.  No biggie.

 

Worth mentioning to the folks in TV land is that the pin 1 for the P2 header on the Incognito is nicely marked with a square solder pad on the back side.

 

Best,

 

Jeff

It's the same with 2 32-in-1 OS's I've installed which both had connectors with different color wires than each other or the installation guide.

Edited by Gunstar

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3 hours ago, Technoid Mutant said:

I have four more to go.  It is really easy to do.  Flashjazz Cat's video is comprehensive, but, mercifully, he includes single-frame freezes of pin-for-pin wiring so you don't have to watch the video.  If you are comfortable, you can just go by the lists and be done.  

Yeah, I've already watched the videos and had looked through an installation guide already, prior to getting the board. It look easy. But I'm doing some other DIY upgrades and mods and rear output ports for it all(PBI output, PAL CPU board w/video upgrade, dual POKEY upgrade w/amplifier board and dual PIA* upgrade w/additional controller outputs among others) while I am at it, so I have a bigger job on my hands.

 

*for a project of my own where I want more than 1 PIA for additional controller I/O's in either colleen or XL/XE modes (not set up as extra joystick ports, but a special parallel output).

Edited by Gunstar

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3 hours ago, flashjazzcat said:

I have no idea. I have connectors here, so can fit them where they are missing. Several people have pointed out that their boards have JTAG connectors, so perhaps the one in the video was a one-off. Unfortunately I can only describe what I have in front of my eyes, so even if every other board has the JTAG connector present, it doesn't change the fact that the one which made it onto YouTube first did not. :)

There are no such catastrophically foolish changes, as evidenced by the explanatory note I posted as a pinned comment under the first video after I learned that the different colour scheme of the wires was a cause for confusion among some customers. Pin assignments have not changed one bit. The only change I failed to point out in the addendum video is the fact the DS1305 crystal has been replaced with an SMD equivalent.

Well, well...

 

It ocurred to me check my tracking (which I didn't check in a while) and lo-and-behold, my packages were inside my mailbox since yesterday! I ordered these back in late August, but did not bother that much along the way... 🎃

 

And it is confirmed, there is NO J-TAG header on this board, which I ordered as an extra-back-up (I have one here of prior-generation that needs repair, and I believe fix should be easy, I just don't have the tools for it).

 

There ARE subtle differences on the actual board cutouts, etc... very small, but it is clear this comes out from another source. Also, there is now a RED / flashing led on-board, that activates with CF-interface activity.

 

I immediately reflashed it (from SDX prompt) with my production ROM package, and let in run for a couple of hours blasting an entire CF-card through Avery's video-player (highest possible speed you can read data out of the CF)... seems to be working fine, so far.

 

I have noticed, unfortunately, that floating-bus data is still present at $D013 (TRIG3), which is flown down to GINTLK by OS (as mandated), which means this issue has not been cured, and corresponding SW-incompatibility will remain.

 

That, combined with the absence of JTAG-header, seems like a very clear (and terminal) message, though. Once tested, this board will go back to its original packing, and will store it as my current back up. I hope there is a way to repair my other (1st-gen) back-up board.

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, flashjazzcat said:

I have no idea. I have connectors here, so can fit them where they are missing. Several people have pointed out that their boards have JTAG connectors, so perhaps the one in the video was a one-off. Unfortunately I can only describe what I have in front of my eyes, so even if every other board has the JTAG connector present, it doesn't change the fact that the one which made it onto YouTube first did not. :)

 

My board arrived yesterday, and I was another was of those lucky folks that have the JTAG connector installed on the board.

 

Now I've just got to find a reasonably-priced Atari 800 to put it into!

 

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Anyone else unable to run the Das Omen Demo?  My two complete machines load the demo and bomb to a black screen just when the skull dude is about to say "Das Omen".  I'm not complaining, just wondering if this is normal so I can stop worrying I screwed up somewhere.

 

Jeff

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9 minutes ago, Technoid Mutant said:

Anyone else unable to run the Das Omen Demo?  My two complete machines load the demo and bomb to a black screen just when the skull dude is about to say "Das Omen".  I'm not complaining, just wondering if this is normal so I can stop worrying I screwed up somewhere.

 

Jeff

The tile is clearly designed for PAL timing, for sure... Although it does chugs on NTSC, and Ultimate...

 

But you are correct, it dies precisely there (not even Q-Meg404 survives). Can't discard PAL/NTSC mis-timings at this point, but it could also be GINTLK/TRIG3 related (I have not checked the code itself, at all...)

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12 minutes ago, Technoid Mutant said:

Anyone else unable to run the Das Omen Demo?  My two complete machines load the demo and bomb to a black screen just when the skull dude is about to say "Das Omen".  I'm not complaining, just wondering if this is normal so I can stop worrying I screwed up somewhere.

Runs fine here, but are you sure the demo isn't PAL only?

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43 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

Runs fine here, but are you sure the demo isn't PAL only?

It IS a Pal demo, but I've been playing it on my NTSC Ataris now since it first came out, in the early 90's.  It never failed to run, it would just jitter like hell, as Pal demos tend to do on screen.  Else, it runs great.  The audio is the best part of course, but the whole demo is awesome.  Veronika runs peachy, thank God.  That Guy, Farkas Felker, is the Eddie Van Halen of Atari music.  I'm more than 1/2 way through upgrade #3 now.

 

Best,

 

Jeff

Edited by Technoid Mutant

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9 hours ago, Technoid Mutant said:

Oh, I should mention, the video is super clear, but the legends mentioned for the pullup resistors (replaced with 2k) are NOT RD4 and RD5, but are in fact R104 and R105, and these legends, at least on my board, are obscured by the card slot such that you'd have to desolder the slot to read them.  R105 is the resistor nearest the edge of the board, with R104 immediately adjacent.  If you watch the video and just dumbly follow along, you'll do the right thing, but it is good to know the precise location and label of these parts.  I went through that section of the video several times to ensure I got the right wire to the right resistor, but I'm thinking, and I could well be wrong, that it doesn't matter which one for which wire?  These are pullups, so maybe ecumenical?

 

Another thing to note for installers, is that it is probably easy to think  you have got the install right without actually wiring anything right.  The board works without the header installed at all.  I don't know what is broken without the header, but probably something.  Can Flashjazzcat cast any fur on this?

 

best

 

Jeff

 

Keep in mind that (most likely) video-output will not pass a tonality-range test, unless R189 is replaced by 200-220 OHM variant. A 0-15 luminance-range gray-bars display will shown the last two (brightest) bars fused, which means a clear loss of (on-display) dynamic-range.

 

The dumb-ass SALT and SUPER-SALT gray-bars test will not show it. However, the attached .BAS test file (specifically designed for this) will immediately reveal the presence or absence of this:

 

gtia256b.bas

 

Run in your Basic interpreter of choice. A full range of 16 vertical B&W bars will be shown, from left-to-right, and pressing "OPTION" will take you out. Pressing "START" will overlay GTIA color-matrix on grayscale, to confirm system's ability to show 256 distinctive (ALL different) colors, either by HUE or LUMA. If there are any hues or lumas repeated, Y+C output needs to be leveled and calibrated, as well.

 

That is the only change I would wholeheartedly recommend, as Y-signal component is almost all-the-time overdriven on most NTSC 800's.... If your unit/s do show a full, complete tonality-range, then you are all set!

Edited by Faicuai
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2 hours ago, elmer said:

 

My board arrived yesterday, and I was another was of those lucky folks that have the JTAG connector installed on the board.

 

Now I've just got to find a reasonably-priced Atari 800 to put it into!

 

What do you consider is a reasonably-priced Atari 800???  I have a couple of my spares to sell soon...

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No JTAG connector for me too.

 

According to Lotharek's website it should be there.

incognito.png.aa0cce11ab5f16c48c9bd26ea6001f07.png

 

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13 minutes ago, Philsan said:

No JTAG connector for me too.

 

According to Lotharek's website it should be there.

incognito.png.aa0cce11ab5f16c48c9bd26ea6001f07.png

 

Correct. 

 

"Not-as-described" is the what comes to mind... A simple / clear explanation on this matter is in order, I believe...

 

Also notice (and be VERY, VERY careful) that in some (1st-gen) units the PBI 50-pin plastic header has the insertion-tab / slot INVERTED, at times... that is, instead of facing the bottom, as shown in the picture, it actually faces UP... Which means, if you ever connect a full 50-pin female terminal to it, you may end up inverting ALL of the signals, and possibly blowing the card (!)

 

I can say this... because my first two units present inverted 50-pin plastic headers! (I noticed when I was building a 50-PIN IDC cable with terminals for future use...)

Edited by Faicuai

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6 minutes ago, Philsan said:

According to Lotharek's website it should be there.

That's a photo of one of the original boards. I think he would say this is "for reference only".

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21 hours ago, Technoid Mutant said:

If anyone (ELSE) was dumb enough to brick thier Incognito within minutes of getting it installed, I am in the US, Miami, Florida.  I have all the gear needed to pull the chip and reprogram it in a few minutes time.  I will be happy to do this for free.  This applies to Ultimate 1mb, Side/Side2, Incognito, and perhaps other devices as well.  Just PM me and let me know you are sending something and I'll send you my address.  In case you are wondering, the person other than (else), was your's truely.  I have nearly bricked my first Side2 as well, but got lucky.  I bought the eprom/flash burner and adapters later.  I also have the tools to recode the low-level flash ram on the U1MB, presumably the Incognito, though it doesn't have the connector mounted, the Antonia upgrade, and, probably the VBXE and Sophia.

All you will pay is shipping both ways.  I have venmo, Zelle, and paypal, so it will be easy to reemburse me for the few dollars return shipping.

I won't tell a soul.

 

Best,

 

Jeff

 

Thank you, Jeff, for making that generous offer.  I'm in the US as well (Washington State), so it is nice to know I have a back up go-to in the US if things go awry!  Hopefully I won't need your services, but you never know!!

 

Our friends in the UK are spoiled to have Jon (flashjazzcat) in their backyard readily available to them!

 

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11 minutes ago, irich2 said:

 

Thank you, Jeff, for making that generous offer.  I'm in the US as well (Washington State), so it is nice to know I have a back up go-to in the US if things go awry!  Hopefully I won't need your services, but you never know!!

 

Our friends in the UK are spoiled to have Jon (flashjazzcat) in their backyard readily available to them!

 

Really glad to.  When I bricked it I went "Oh Crap", but I had everything handy to make it all right in less than ten minutes.  I thought of how sick someone would feel if that were not the case for them.  It made me sick thinking of them feeling so sick.  So have some pepto bismol on me guys.

 

Best,

 

Jeff

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Apropos of the 800's at any rate, I just discovered that Magic eraser removes really stubborn, ancient sharpie marks from the Atari 800's skin.  Usually, if the marks are fresh, alcohol will take them right off, but after years, Sharpies is like Herpes, the gift that keeps on giving.  I tried the magic eraser as a desperate LAST measure, after having tried Alcohol, Comet, Toothpaste, shaving cream, and (Carefully) acetone.  Acetone will melt the case, so you have to be gentle with it.  It will dry the plastic out and leave a dusty-looking stain.  You can renew this with WD40.  It will put the shine right back on and will nourish the plastic.

 

Best,

 

Jeff

 

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51 minutes ago, AtariGeezer said:

What do you consider is a reasonably-priced Atari 800???  I have a couple of my spares to sell soon...

I'll PM you, and see if we can find a compatible definition of "reasonable". ;-)

 

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55 minutes ago, Faicuai said:

Correct. 

 

"Not-as-described" is the what comes to mind... A simple / clear explanation on this matter is in order, I believe...

 

Also notice (and be VERY, VERY careful) that in some (1st-gen) units the PBI 50-pin plastic header has the insertion-tab / slot INVERTED, at times... that is, instead of facing the bottom, as shown in the picture, it actually faces UP... Which means, if you ever connect a full 50-pin female terminal to it, you may end up inverting ALL of the signals, and possibly blowing the card (!)

 

I can say this... because my first two units present inverted 50-pin plastic headers! (I noticed when I was building a 50-PIN IDC cable with terminals for future use...)

Damn!  Was not aware of the 50-pin header issue.  I'll make a note to check mine.

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