scarcity fetishists

[Flojomojo]

The amounts of money these people are throwing away on this stuff is astounding to me. 

 

Deep-Pocketed Collectors Are Fueling A Retro Game Gold Rush

Quote

Danielle Smith has spent half a million dollars on rare video games, most of it in the last nine months. And she’s just getting started.

“I really just want the best of the best,” said Smith, 35.

That half a million bucks has only bought her around 200 games. Last week, she spent $2,650 on a sealed copy of Donkey Kong Country for the Super Nintendo. Smith, a comic dealer from Florida, is just one of many deep-pocketed collectors who have only recently started splashing out in earnest on games. 

“Comic book people and art people are coming in, and we want rare games that are hard to find,” she said.

Quote

Today, the younger Entin’s comic collection includes many books valued in the five-figure range, and in the last two years he’s spent about $75,000 buying up about 200 NES games: a sealed Zelda, a sealed Mario, etc.

 

[godslabrat]

Meh.  I get the appeal of the rare game, the sealed game.  I love having that time capsule and popping it open to breathe the air from 198x.  But there's one big difference...

 

... I want it cheap.  

 

Because at the end of the day, it's still an old game, and it's most likely still sealed because it was overproduced.  So I'll pay $10-20 premium for the sealed game and the pleasure of deflowering it, but the second the prices went above that, I lost interest.  

 

When it gets to the point where the packaging is worth $600 and the game itself is worth $10 (and that's where so many retrogames are at these days) then You have a hard time convincing me there isn't a better way to spend $590.  

[Flojomojo]

Yeah, same here. I'll read reprints of old comics because of the story, and play beater cartridges or emulated ROMs to try a game, but that's not really the point of the artifact collectors. The subject of this article runs a high-end comics shop, which I concede is more like an art gallery than a newsstand, but it's so far away from what I value about this stuff it's almost hard to comprehend. 

[CatPix]

The thing is that those people collect rare "THINGS".

They aren't gamers. I'm pretty sure that most of those people wouldn't be able to tell from which country Nintendo is.

It's just speculators identifying a growing market and trying to speculate on it.

If tomorrow there is a craze on Royal Crown Cola can openers, those people will suddenly collect the pristine, unused ones and pay big bucks for them.

[KeeperofLindblum]

Yeah this article just upsets me in a lot of ways. I'm glad that I've mostly exited any form of real collecting. (Granted I was never that big into fully boxed, complete in boxed, or never opened ones.)

 

The real problem is this could just end up driving up prices on games that aren't worth it. Emulation will remain as a top choice for the future it seems.

[godslabrat]

I find it curious that the professional speculating is happening NOW, when we're seeing a considerable drop in interest for NES->N64 era systems.  Their sun has set, their song is sung, from a popularity and interest standpoint.  As time goes on, I doubt newer collectors will be numerous enough to replace the ones who leave or die.

 

All this is a recipe for prices on even the sealed and ultra-rare games dropping in price, or at least capping out.  And the speculators today are almost certainly buying at the peak price point... I don't need to tell you why that's bad for them. 

 

The time to try the "buy the premium stuff and flip it" would have been to load up on all the prizes between 2000 and 2010, and sit on that inventory until 2015 or so.  

 

On the other hand... perfect time for them to load up on PlayStation Classics, lol!!

[CatPix]

I think it's because those people gotta make sure games are a worthwhile investment.

They are speculators, and they live in their own bubble.

I talked with a comic collector, and when we talked about video game, he started saying he didn't understood why there wasn't a standard system and a network of shops and people liek there are for comics, that set up "fair" prices and such.

And he had a hard time understanding that retrogamers collect games to play them, and so that, unlike in comic colelction where a missing page or moisture spots make a comic lose value, as long as the game works, even if it's a loose cart with a missing label, the game has value and will find a buyer.

It's two different mindsets, and those speculators are only catching up on the fact that video game CAN fetch money, so now it's a collectible. The selling value of those games stuck in that bubble is gonna be more and more artificial.

I guess that the "sealed" obsessed people miht be able to do a nice bounce on their collection, tho ? On one hand, this trend shouldn't affect used games since the fact they are open and unsealed mean that they will have zero comma zero value to those people.

 

[HatefulGravey]

I like having a few boxes around for each system for which I collect. That said, I wont/can't spend big money on cardboard. What's more, I wont keep big money boxed stuff even if I love the game. I got a sweet deal on a dozen or so CIB NES games a few years back. I don't know how it happened that these games survived in this condition, they were amazing. Included was a copy of Mega Man, one of my very favorite games. It didn't cross my mind to keep it. As it stands I have been tempted to sell the loose copies I have of the NES Mega Man games at times, and they are on the short list of games I'm truly proud to own.

 

If the people that have the money choose to build over priced collections just to have them I say great. They have the money to maintain them and maybe these collections will find their way into a museum or something when these folks are bored of owning them. Rich folks donate stuff all the time. Maybe they can raise the prices high enough that I can make a buck or two along the way. My observation on the hobby has been that these trends come and go. 

Edited August 9, 2019 by HatefulGravey

[Newsdee]

Speculation means there will be a crash sooner ot later. Thats good for those of us who wants to own stuff just to play it or display on the shelf.

[digdugnate]

i have zero self-control when it comes to buying retro computing/gaming baubles so i try really hard to stay out of it- when i was super into collecting 994a and 2600 stuff my wife bless her heart tolerated seeing packages show up daily because it was finally something i was interested in. lol

 

that being said, that kind of collecting is totally not in my wheelhouse.  i buy games to play 'em, just like i buy comics to read and action figures to 'play' with or display (I'm a real sucker for G1 Transformers and assorted nerdy-type Funko pop figures. I keep my eye on the Battle Beast figures, but Jesus are they expensive to acquire).  

 

I think there were several episodes of Simpsons with Comic Book Guy that dealt with this.

[HoshiChiri]

I have read the article and... I have no issues with this whatsoever.

 

These folks are collecting in the same way one collects high-end comics. Not to read, just to have. It's décor, it's a conversation piece, it's not something you use. For old comics, that can be a bit of an issue becuase they haven't necessarily made a good quality reprint for just reading- and if they have, it's not going to be quite the same due to differences in paper stock. Comics are a tactile thing.

 

Games, on the other hand, are a largely visual medium. There is a tactile element to be sure, but it's not the core of the experience. Plus, even the rare games exist in much larger quantities than old comics- it's only the pristine, sealed variants that are crazy scarce. If you're just after an affordable playable copy, that's not so hard.

 

Quite frankly, I'm rather down with this whole thing- let the deep pocketed speculators spend 10k for sealed Mario. I will buy cheap, used, game only Mario to play. My market's not really affected, save perhaps for new people trickling in after reading articles about crazy-expensive sealed Mario and thinking 'Hey, I used to have Mario. It was fun. I'd like to try it again- I wonder if there's a cheaper way to get it?' and discovering the retro scene that way. 

[Trinity]

I have a NIB Defender for the 2600. I should open it! But I don't.

[DragonGrafx-16]

I own some rare games but not because they are rare, but because they are shoot em up games. I don't really think Soldier Blade is that rare (especially on PC Engine rather than the rarer TG-16 version) but it's just sought after. And I saw Mega Man 5 on sale at my local game store for $90. I've had it since back in the day and had no idea it was getting up there in price.

[high voltage]

I got a sealed Forest from Sancho, your for 100 million trillion bucks

 

[Keatah]

These high-end collectors are simply creating a little world. They say something is X dollars, then by golly it IS X dollars! Amazing ain't it?

 

On 8/9/2019 at 5:39 PM, KeeperofLindblum said:

The real problem is this could just end up driving up prices on games that aren't worth it. Emulation will remain as a top choice for the future it seems.

 

Emulation already IS the top preservation method. And rapidly becoming the most popular way of playing the classic games we all know and love.

 

As vintage hardware becomes scarce due natural causes and attrition Emulation becomes more important. It is genuinely timeless and it can migrate through the ages with minimal or no trouble. It has a 30-year and running track record. It has already successfully preserved material from the 60's and 70's and made it available to everyone. It won't decay and can improve throughout the years like fine wine. But most importantly it captures and preserves its subject material in an interactive and playable manner. It allows you to experience a title exactly the same today, as yesterday, as tomorrow. And it allows everyone to have access. Something a cartridge in a sealed box fails miserably at. On this there can be no debate.
 

 

[mr_me]

Yes and no about software emulation.  With some accuracy is the goal, others are hacks that leave you with a poor simulation of the original.  Most people might not notice the differences.  Even mame started out as hacks but their goal is accuracy and are continuously working towards that.  How do you know if software emulation is accurate?  Well you compare to the original.  Still emulation availability really doesn't change anything for those that collect the real thing.  And you don't need emulators to play a copy/dump of a rare cartridge on real hardware.

Edited August 11, 2019 by mr_me

[danwinslow]

5 hours ago, Keatah said:

These high-end collectors are simply creating a little world. They say something is X dollars, then by golly it IS X dollars! Amazing ain't it?

 

Yeah, that's how it works. The price of something is always defined by what someone will pay for it. If people will pay more for an item, the price will go up. If not, the price will go down. There is no such thing as ' the price' on something apart from what people are willing to pay. You can definitely use this to manipulate a market for stuff like this, if your own pockets are deep enough, but if people stop being willing to pay then it falls apart.

Edited August 11, 2019 by danwinslow

[mr_me]

The prices mentioned in the article aren't made up, they are actually what was paid i.e. market value.  Remember, in high stakes collecting, condition is everything.  So although an expensive example of a cartridge exists, the same cartridge could be had for a small fraction of that price.  In comics and sports cards there's a huge variation in value depending on condition.  This hasn't happened to the same extent with video games, yet.

Edited August 11, 2019 by mr_me

[amiman99]

I only buy games that I'm willing to play. If I see the same game loose for $5 or sealed for $50, I'm getting the loose one.

I think some collectors loose the thrill of hunting for games, it's easy to buy any game for high price on Ebay, but hard to find it for few $$ in the thrift store or garage sale. It's more fun that that way in my opinion.

 

[Keatah]

Last thing I wanna be doing is cruising Goodwill when I could be out flying or something.

 

The article mentions a store owner that arbitrarily set high prices at random with the intent of only attracting attention and as conversation starters. The owner got genuine interest (simply because high price) and made some sales. Had the carts been priced cheaper, they'd've been passed up with nary a peek. As it should be. So this clearly demonstrates a knot in the head.

 

Another "collector" (or was it the same one) got all giddy when different versions of boxes with slightly different markings were found. Something snapped and the brain twisted. There goes $100,000 !!

 

6 hours ago, mr_me said:

Yes and no about software emulation.  With some accuracy is the goal, others are hacks that leave you with a poor simulation of the original.  Most people might not notice the differences.  Even mame started out as hacks but their goal is accuracy and are continuously working towards that.  How do you know if software emulation is accurate?  Well you compare to the original.  Still emulation availability really doesn't change anything for those that collect the real thing.  And you don't need emulators to play a copy/dump of a rare cartridge on real hardware.

 

Emulation doesn't cover everything. But the compatibility list is improving daily. Those that collect the real thing are becoming less numerous as time goes on. Less and less people are wanting to build up collections and fuss with it all.

 

Emulation makes it easier to play that rare dump than using a flashcart on real hardware - because now you have to acquire two pieces of hardware. One is old and another is a specialty item sold only through certain internet dealers and hobbyists. There are people that don't even know what a flashcart is.

 

And if you look at the download counts of well established emulators you can see they are increasing all the time whereas production of their counterpart physical consoles has stopped decades ago.

[mbd30]

On 8/9/2019 at 5:56 PM, godslabrat said:

I find it curious that the professional speculating is happening NOW, when we're seeing a considerable drop in interest for NES->N64 era systems.  Their sun has set, their song is sung, from a popularity and interest standpoint.  As time goes on, I doubt newer collectors will be numerous enough to replace the ones who leave or die.

 

Maybe demand for real hardware is decreasing because of the price and inconvenience factor when there are other ways to play these games. So it's the speculators who are collecting everything now.

 

 

[Keatah]

Is the desire there to play the game or sit and look at a console and cartridge? If it's for the game and gameplay, there are other ways to do it, Emulation, FPGA simulation. And Emulation can and does improve on the original game like BSNES + Gradius III. Or Altirra + BallBlazer. The improvements are user-selectable of course.

 

If it's for wanting to look at a piece of plastic and have bragging rights. Well. Then.. By all means speculate away!

[Keatah]

Way I see it is that somebody rich says a game is worth x $$$ amount. And it then suddenly becomes worth that amount. And someone buys it. And, somehow, a news service gets wind of it. They publish an article. And then the game players visiting sites like this get their panties all twisted and huffy.

 

Somehow the low-enders get all charged up. But the high-enders content to do their thing pay no attention (to the low-enders). To them it's a waste.

 

[pablum]

Spending tens of thousands of dollars for condition scarcity (not actual game scarcity) is so bizarre to me. 

[Tanooki]

I guess now is a good time as any as I saw a screen capture of something that I think ended today or will soon on ebay.  It's already over $10K but another sticker sealed black box SMB popped up.  Seems that wata/heritage mess did what some of us said, helped with its artificality drive up the prices on such items.  You just need one to panic more into paying that before it ever goes higher.  Now to wonder if that epic level of stupidity and pokemon like mentality of gotta catch em all will trickle down and harm more stuff in the lower tiers.