Looking after our devs.

[Mclaneinc]

 

Little bit of irony here, while searching for some rom images of the sort that are not supported by altirra as yet I stumbled on a site which had links to some megacart images so I grabbed them and one of the images turns out to be Tempest Extreem by Peter Meyer and its not a demo, so I write to Lance at Video 61 and  let him know so he can get the guy to pull it as its still sold so I thought it was the right thing to do, when I say I support our devs I mean it.

 

Now the irony part, who was the guy that called me especially a "dirty pirate" on here and threatened that if he ever saw a game by him dumped by me he would quit writing games, yep good old Peter Meyer...

 

I'm sat here with a smug smile on my face...Its not a good look but I think I'm allowed it after what Peter has said about me and people in general on here.....

 

And did I dump it...NO....Looks like it was some Spanish speaking person..

 

I would not do that let alone remember how to do it properly...

Edited August 13, 2019 by Mclaneinc

[snicklin]

4 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:

Now the irony part, who was the guy that called me especially a "dirty pirate" on here and threatened that if he ever saw a game by him dumped by me he would quit writing games, yep good old Peter Meyer...

 

I'm sat here with a smug smile on my face...

 

I get on with both you and Pete and I am really happy here for both of you.

 

I call this a win-win situation. You feel vindicated that you're not a dirty pirate (I never saw a parrot anyway and I am sure that you use soap) and Pete will probably be relieved to see that you are not the person which he thought that you may be. I am sure that he would be happy to be wrong.

 

Both of you come out well out of this. And Pete will get the pirate copy of his game pulled, which is good for his business.

[toddtmw]

To be fair, i suspect many of us (myself included) were dirty pirates BITD...

 

But all of my software these days is legitimately acquired. (well, except for the old Atari stuff...)

[DavidMil]

3 hours ago, toddtmw said:

To be fair, i suspect many of us (myself included) were dirty pirates BITD...

 

But all of my software these days is legitimately acquired. (well, except for the old Atari stuff...)

I'll be honest, I did a fair share of pirating too.  But my pirating didn't start until the prices for games and programs got to be ridiculously high!

Even then I tried to buy games that were really good (if we could afford them).  Then I got mad at Atari when they dumped us just to keep up

with what they thought was going to make them more money.  I truly believe that pirating started because of the greed of software and hardware

companies.  If they had kept the prices lower, most all of us would never have started pirating in the first place!

 

David   

[Urchlay]

I truly believe that pirating started because of the greed of software
and hardware companies.

Speaking as someone who had an Atari before he was old enough to get
a job... For me it wouldn't have mattered, at age 11-12, whether a
game was $5, $50, or $500. Parents weren't rich and I had no way of
getting my own income (paper routees were never a thing where I grew up,
cutting lawns might have worked but competition from the other kids was
fierce). So even the cheapest software was out of my reach. There were
a lot of kids like me...

[Kyle22]

We all do. It's OK. Atari did not go bust because of Piracy, it was because of Bad Decisions on their part. They had the opportunity to own a good size piece of Apple, they f'd up their deal to distribute Nintendo. That was partly Coleco's fault, but I never understood the complaint. The Adam is a Colecovision with a keyboard and peripherals. It has a cart slot. How are you releasing the game for a new platform when the new "platform" is the same as (and 100% compatible with the old)?

 

 

[adam1977]

My cousin always had copied games, I could never understand why though, as the tape boxes looked awful with hand written labels and besides, the tapes were cheap enough at the time. He moved onto the ST and then the SNES where he bought a wiildcard device and had loads of floppy disc copies.

 

The thing is though it didn't 'feel' the same to me, as in I just felt as though the copied games were throwaway items, whereas if i'd saved up and bought one, like I did with Super Mario Allstars at £60, then it meant something and I had memories associated with either the purchase of the game or whether it was a gift. I can still remember where I got some of my old Atari 8-Bit games from, as they were very hard to find, they were special and meant something to me 

 

It's similar now when I use my SIO2SD, I can browse through the games, but I much prefer a physical copy, whether it's a cartridge or a tape.

[Mclaneinc]

10 hours ago, snicklin said:

 

I get on with both you and Pete and I am really happy here for both of you.

 

I call this a win-win situation. You feel vindicated that you're not a dirty pirate (I never saw a parrot anyway and I am sure that you use soap) and Pete will probably be relieved to see that you are not the person which he thought that you may be. I am sure that he would be happy to be wrong.

 

Both of you come out well out of this. And Pete will get the pirate copy of his game pulled, which is good for his business.

 

This was the point of my post, it was never meant to get people to point fingers at themselves as I've since seen, what people do is up to them and what happened back then was for a mixture of reasons, there will always be the people that choose not to pay no matter what the cost and there will be others who found the prices pretty heavy going that succumbed to the odd disk here and there (lets not forget that software piracy was all new and not even understood by the law at that point) and we had the people with means and morals who brought all their stuff.

 

There's no blame to be pushed and certainly I myself would be the last person to do it as I was as bad a pirate as anyone (never sold stuff...ever) so I in those times could not stand on a moral box and start pointing fingers..

 

As Snicks said (how do me old mate, still a brit abroad or a proper Oz person now?  ) this was about me pointing out to Pete that his judgement was wrong and that these days I respect our dev's fully...

 

Paul, reasonably clean and totally free of a parrot...

[+slx]

I bought some 8-Bit games with pocket money mostly before swap parties started to spread and began buying (ST) software again once I had a job (I did buy some games for ST and PC but to this day - now thanks to GOG and Steam - buy more games than I actually play). I stopped using pirated software once I moved to the Mac about 18 years later, figuring it would hurt developers more in a smaller market. 

 

 

[Mclaneinc]

I think its a common way for most of us, we may as younger selves found getting the naughty disks just a way of "how it was" but in later years decided to look at what was going on with more adult and aware eye's. I'm no different, all the films out there to download but I buy my stuff, I may watch the odd film by download but I've then purchased them, same with software, the PS4 has long been hacked but mine isn't, its still a standard one and I buy the games when they drop in price.

 

Its not about being a reformed character, its purely being aware of how things work, who loses, who wins and keeping what's good going.

[Gunstar]

I was never really a pirate, I didn't know who or where to get pirated Atari software from, no modem, no user group, just a lone Atarian in a sea of Commodore and Apple users in my area. I finally got some pirated software in the early 90's, after acquiring all original stuff up to that point which I saved up for doing my paper route and mowing lawns,etc. The few pirated disks I did get long after the Atari was a going concern was all just English and European software not available any other way in the states back then. And of course a lot of it wouldn't run on my NTSC Atari anyway. I wanted originals, for the same reason as adam1977, the pirated menu disks looked terrible, no instructions, no nice box to enjoy the art and ownership. I'm still that way today. I'll download anything and everything, but if it's something I really like, I search for originals to buy. But I was no software saint back as a youth either; probably 25% of the original software I acquired back then I shop lifted. Something I'm not proud of today, no better or worse than pirating on a moral/ethical level, but at least my thievery got me originals and not a bunch of disks with written labels. 

Edited August 14, 2019 by Gunstar

[Preppie]

When I was at school I had a bunch of copied disks but as soon as I started earning I only bought originals, even bought some games I already had copies of.  Got well over 100 original 8 bit games from the 80's and maybe 50 for the ST.

 

If people want to charge for homebrew or old still copyrighted software then I wouldn't dream of not paying for them if I wanted them.  In fact, I would rather pay for good homebrew than get it for free, I want to support the guys who keep supporting the old systems.

[toddtmw]

For me, BITD, collecting games WAS the game. I rarely actually PLAYED the games I collected. 

 

In fact the ones I really liked, I did buy. I also bought the non-game software I used the most. 

 

But having a suitcase full full of floppies was kind of a hobby. 

 

And my disks did NOT have hand-written labels. I printed them on my Panasonic dot-matrix printer onto labels that were the same size as the top of a disk. 

 

Then I took those disks, entered them into my database, filed them alphabetically or numerically and then never touched them again. 

 

In hindsight, I was kind of like the big warehouse at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark. 

[flashjazzcat]

All we need now is for the dev to get some scruples and then everyone will be happy.

 

[Mclaneinc]

In the case of THAT dev, it would be nice...One of the few who was on my ignore list....

[Albert]

1 hour ago, flashjazzcat said:

All we need now is for the dev to get some scruples and then everyone will be happy.

That's an understatement. Peter continues to create fake accounts on Facebook (while claiming multiple times he's no longer going to do that), and still sends unsolicited emails to me and to others. The last one I received a month ago started threatening and ended with (paraphrasing), "Hey, we can still work together! Just don't tell Lance!"  Seriously. 

 

  ..Al

[flashjazzcat]

Last attempt at a PM to me on Facebook:

Quote

What kind of bullshit did you tell the moderators of the Antic Atari Podcast to have me blocked?

What an asset to the community.

 

[Mclaneinc]

Was worse when his buddy Sal was also on the scene, I really tried with Peter and Sal but the ignorance and utterly odd behaviour just nailed it for me...

 

I would never wish any of our dev's bad but Petey came very close in that department..

 

Sad to see he's STILL up to it all, poor Lance (great guy) must have a hell of a lot of patience or a thick skin...

[_The Doctor__]

I'm sorry I helped either of them... but we did get some new stuff out of it...  people get big heads and think the world is out to get them. Some one keeps pounding the idea everything must be on a cartridge or the pirates are going get them! We must kill performance to encrypt and compress it- else they'll dump the code and who knows what the hackers and pirates will do!    Every piece of software is eventually ripped, hacked and made available over time.

  Let's face another thing, clones or outright ports/ makes of others work were done without permission and they look to profit from it but don't want the same done with their work. I know I presented plenty of compelling arguments about this crap in the past so I guess this condensed rant should suffice. I don't think anyone wants to relive any of those days.

 

I wish there was a cure for it, but the paranoia runs deep in folks.

[Gunstar]

The only other way was that occasionally, I had friends that were Commodore or Apple owners, and some of the software I and they owned had the other computer's version on the "flippy" disk, so I traded for keeps or temps with software a that way sometimes, but that was rare.

[kiwilove]

My own personal opinion on this subject is that - it is like for other copyrighted, etc stuff - like as for movies, tv programmes, etc.  Even for books, etc.  If you had the money - you would buy the commercial package - and if you didn't (or can't buy for it for any reason) - then you would copy it.  And you could always buy the game afterwards - after playing a copy of it.  I did make use of a hire library when I was living in the UK briefly for a while.

There are always pluses and minuses to the issue of whether to play 'pirated' games or not?

 

Of course your own view does change somewhat - when you start developing/working on your own games.  I think Infocom showed the way - to provide extras that came with the game to help play the game.  Homebrew developers likewise - who make their games - in collector editions.

But not all homebrew developers are going to make such an effort - who are simply happy to just release it as it is - available for a free download.

Those who go to the trouble of providing packaging, etc - and go for a commercial look, etc - and price themselves accordingly, are welcomed to do that.

When special packaging, etc are not available - I think that is an opportunity to make up your own - because colour printouts are so easy to get done.  And packaging isn't that hard to make up - if you really want it?

Wouldn't you want the developer to actually spend their time developing - instead of working on packaging, etc - when they don't want to really do it?

What is really 'homebrew'?  Those who stick with the original concept - and then there are those who have the commercial homebrew look and feel of that?

 

I think you're very lucky to have someone still keen enough to develop new software - and you should not do anything to tick them off.  There is not enough appreciation for the amount of work put into various projects.  I'm not saying that you should not be honest in reviews/comments on the games.

 

Harvey

[DavidMil]

34 minutes ago, kiwilove said:

My own personal opinion on this subject is that - it is like for other copyrighted, etc stuff - like as for movies, tv programmes, etc.  Even for books, etc.  If you had the money - you would buy the commercial package - and if you didn't (or can't buy for it for any reason) - then you would copy it.  And you could always buy the game afterwards - after playing a copy of it.  I did make use of a hire library when I was living in the UK briefly for a while.

There are always pluses and minuses to the issue of whether to play 'pirated' games or not?

 

Of course your own view does change somewhat - when you start developing/working on your own games.  I think Infocom showed the way - to provide extras that came with the game to help play the game.  Homebrew developers likewise - who make their games - in collector editions.

But not all homebrew developers are going to make such an effort - who are simply happy to just release it as it is - available for a free download.

Those who go to the trouble of providing packaging, etc - and go for a commercial look, etc - and price themselves accordingly, are welcomed to do that.

When special packaging, etc are not available - I think that is an opportunity to make up your own - because colour printouts are so easy to get done.  And packaging isn't that hard to make up - if you really want it?

Wouldn't you want the developer to actually spend their time developing - instead of working on packaging, etc - when they don't want to really do it?

What is really 'homebrew'?  Those who stick with the original concept - and then there are those who have the commercial homebrew look and feel of that?

 

I think you're very lucky to have someone still keen enough to develop new software - and you should not do anything to tick them off.  There is not enough appreciation for the amount of work put into various projects.  I'm not saying that you should not be honest in reviews/comments on the games.

 

Harvey

It's been my experience that programmers are some of the smartest people I know.  The other side of that coin is that they all seem

to be a little "unusual".  If I sat in from of a computer, looking at and backtracking through code all day trying to find out what

is creating errors; I'd be in a straight jacket in no time.  My hat is off to them.  Please keep up the wonderful work!

 

David

[Kyle22]

Some of them are Brilliant, and some of them are greedy. There are certain ones that are brilliant and not greedy. They're the best. Then you have the stupid greedy types...

nuff said.

:)

 

[carlsson]

9 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

Every piece of software is eventually ripped, hacked and made available over time.

For the sake of Peter Meyer's sanity, it probably was a good thing he reconsidered his intentions to widen his scope to include the C64. Although piracy is not unheard of on the Atari 8-bit scene, it still to this day is more or less is the norm on the Commodore. Some games where the crackers have feelings for the publishers get a grace period before cracks are posted, but I wouldn't hold my breath that his games published through Video61 or someone else, would get that treatment. Basically he would flip once his hard worked games appear at CSDb.

[flashjazzcat]

42 minutes ago, carlsson said:

Peter Meyer's sanity

Not familiar with that. Can you elaborate?