Atari 800 Replacement Keyboard Membranes

[adam1977]

Here are the photos of the mylar, this is the actual one I sent to Rich:

 

 

[Kyle22]

I have only seen one type of 800 mylar.

 

[Faicuai]

20 hours ago, Sugarland said:

 

Hmm okay thank you. So the mylar variants don't have the contact wings. In that case I've not seen the mylar variant yet, nor do I own one.   I have two white plungers models and one green. IIRC the green here is a stackpole.

 

RWAP, for now please retract my request for 800 mylars.  If you would confirm Gunstars information and/or provide photos of the mylar variants that would be appreciated.

 

edit: green plungers model at 27m 43s :

 

 

 

My EXACT same keyboard (mint condition):

 

Stackpole (with PCB board), GREEN plungers (not yellow, not white) and rainbow-ribbon connector. Machine is late 83 build, with explicit "Made in U.S.A." serial-label on the back.

 

Smooth and fluid keyboard, with a relatively large key-press travel, ending on a hard-stop (my only complaint, haptics are not progressive or subtle, just a solid "clack" at end of travel).

[Sugarland]

7 hours ago, adam1977 said:

Here are the photos of the mylar, this is the actual one I sent to Rich:

 

 

 

Only for rubber dome type keyboards? Ones with no wings under the keycaps?  There are mitsumis with metal wing contacts.

 

[adam1977]

Does anyone know how many variations there are? 

[Duddie]

Atari 800XL/600XL mylars are available now at Retronics. Price is $22 plus $9 shipping worldwide.

 

orders(at)retronics.eu

[Islandstumbler]

Seems there website retronics.eu  has not been working for sometime.

 

[Kyle22]

18 minutes ago, Islandstumbler said:

Seems there website retronics.eu  has not been working for sometime.

 

Go to http://retronics.eu

Click on their fakebook (lifelog) link.

Direct link: https://www.facebook.com/retronics.eu/

 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by Kyle22
Added direct link.

[Duddie]

Retronics website is being done from scratch, please be patient, it will be back soon.

[RWAP]

8 minutes ago, Duddie said:

Retronics website is being done from scratch, please be patient, it will be back soon.

In the meantime, why not put some of these on sellmyretro

[adam1977]

I think we could do with making a list of who wants mylars 

 

adam1977 - 2

six - 1

Stormbringer - 2

adam242 - 1

 

Just copy this list and add your name to it if you want one from Rich 

[Duddie]

Rich, they are listed on SMR.

[RWAP]

I have decided to run a pre-order for the Atari 800 membranes to see if there is enough interest - https://www.sellmyretro.com/offer/details/replacement-atari-800-keyboard-membrane-(mitsumi-56-_7324a)-pre-_order-38662 Atari 800

[Sugarland]

On 8/31/2019 at 9:28 PM, toddtmw said:

How can I tell (without disassembling) which ont my 800's have?

 

Carefully remove a keycap using a wire keycap puller. My Mitsumi has springs directly under the keycaps. The plunger is an off-white upright tall post and is a plus shape (male plunger, female keycap).  All my other 800 keyboards have a square hole plunger with no spring visible (female plunger, male keycap). At first glance these Mitsumi keycaps look to be a little more square but still beautiful unlike the 800XL Mitsumi keycaps.

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Sugarland

[Sugarland]

On 10/3/2019 at 5:39 AM, RWAP said:

I have decided to run a pre-order for the Atari 800 membranes to see if there is enough interest - https://www.sellmyretro.com/offer/details/replacement-atari-800-keyboard-membrane-(mitsumi-56-_7324a)-pre-_order-38662 Atari 800

  

I got the replacement 800 Mitsumi keyboard mylars (thank you!!) and only the BREAK key is working with the replacement installed. All other keys (besides function keys) are not responsive. I tried removing the tape from the gold fingers connection point and cleaning the fingers well. That made no difference. Do you recommend conductive paint on the gold fingers to assist connectivity? No instructions come with the mylars.

 

[RWAP]

1 hour ago, Sugarland said:

  

I got the replacement 800 Mitsumi keyboard mylars (thank you!!) and only the BREAK key is working with the replacement installed. All other keys (besides function keys) are not responsive. I tried removing the tape from the gold fingers connection point and cleaning the fingers well. That made no difference. Do you recommend conductive paint on the gold fingers to assist connectivity? No instructions come with the mylars.

 

 

We are not quite certain what is causing this issue - we think it is down to the amount of pressure on the mylar as it basically just sits against those fingers.

You are the second person to report that only the BREAK key is working whereas another person has about half the keys working without changing anything.

What we think is required is a small piece of material (such as a thin piece of foam as used on the Commodore SX-64) or maybe even a piece of paper folded a couple of times, between the mylar and the small plastic bar which holds the mylar down.

We have suggested this to the affected users, but not yet received any feedback as to whether this helps and if so how thick it needs to be.  It might just be a matter of us provided an extra thin sheet of plastic to make the mylar that little bit thicker overall.

It may be worth trying a couple of sheets of paper behind the whole of the mylar - Jerzy Dudek says some 800xl mylars have the same issue (where the keys are slightly worn).

Unfortunately, the factory (based in Scotland) is struggling with lockdown and not operational at the moment, otherwise they could borrow Adam's Atari 800 again and try a range of materials to work out what is required. 

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by RWAP

[Sugarland]

13 minutes ago, RWAP said:

 

We are not quite certain what is causing this issue - we think it is down to the amount of pressure on the mylar as it basically just sits against those fingers.

You are the second person to report that only the BREAK key is working whereas another person has about half the keys working without changing anything.

What we think is required is a small piece of material (such as a thin piece of foam as used on the Commodore SX-64) or maybe even a piece of paper folded a couple of times, between the mylar and the small plastic bar which holds the mylar down.

We have suggested this to the affected users, but not yet received any feedback as to whether this helps and if so how thick it needs to be.  It might just be a matter of us provided an extra thin sheet of plastic to make the mylar that little bit thicker overall.

Unfortunately, the factory (based in Scotland) is struggling with lockdown and not operational at the moment, otherwise they could borrow Adam's Atari 800 again and try a range of materials to work out what is required. 

 

 

Thank you for the very quick response. I'll do this and let you know asap!

 

[Sugarland]

16 minutes ago, RWAP said:

 

What we think is required is a small piece of material (such as a thin piece of foam as used on the Commodore SX-64) or maybe even a piece of paper folded a couple of times, between the mylar and the small plastic bar which holds the mylar down.
 

 

 

Okay at first I thought I understood this but re-reading it I'm not sure. What is this plastic bar you speak of? Do they serve drinks? Do you have photos?

 

[Sugarland]

This plastic bar?

 

He does look like an Atarian.

 

[RWAP]

3 minutes ago, Sugarland said:

 

Okay at first I thought I understood this but re-reading it I'm not sure. What is this plastic bar you speak of? Do they serve drinks? Do you have photos?

 

I don't have an Atari 800 so no photos.

Speaking with Jerzy - it looks as though the issue is more to do with the fact that the keys are wearing (the BREAK key is least used and hence why that one works in two cases) - try a couple of sheets of paper behind the whole of the membrane rather than just where the contact traces sit on the fingers.

[Sugarland]

21 minutes ago, RWAP said:

Speaking with Jerzy - it looks as though the issue is more to do with the fact that the keys are wearing (the BREAK key is least used and hence why that one works in two cases) - try a couple of sheets of paper behind the whole of the membrane rather than just where the contact traces sit on the fingers.

 

Okay yes well the inverse key and a few others (caps key) are seldom used as well, less than break. My first guess is that this is the gold fingers need more pressure like the tiny PCB that Best Electronics includes in their 1200XL mylar membrane kit. I will try adding some paper behind the new membrane to help the gold fingers make good contact. I suspect it's not a wearing issue but I'll let you know how it goes.  Thank you!

 

[+slx]

9 hours ago, Sugarland said:

This plastic bar?

 

In the area where the Mylar makes contact with the board, there is a small plastic bar between two screwposts that looks like it presses the Mylar onto the contacts. The idea is to apply something ‚thickening‘ there to improve contact. 
 

BTW, @Sugarland, does your keyboard have ‚wings‘ or ‚domes‘?

[Sugarland]

5 hours ago, slx said:

In the area where the Mylar makes contact with the board, there is a small plastic bar between two screwposts that looks like it presses the Mylar onto the contacts. The idea is to apply something ‚thickening‘ there to improve contact. 
 

BTW, @Sugarland, does your keyboard have ‚wings‘ or ‚domes‘?

I think you mean that this horizontal structural frame of the keyboard plastic is in the area under gold contact fingers between the two screw posts. Yes..    This 800 keyboard has neither wings nor domes. They are male plus-shaped post plungers. There is a spring on top, directly under the keycap. When the keycap comes off, the spring was to fly free. 

[Sugarland]

8 hours ago, slx said:

BTW, @Sugarland, does your keyboard have ‚wings‘ or ‚domes‘?

 

Neither, actually. Here are photos of the male plunger:

 

Shows the spring under keycap:

 

[Sugarland]

18 hours ago, RWAP said:

 

 try a couple of sheets of paper behind the whole of the membrane rather than just where the contact traces sit on the fingers.

 

 

Spent several hours today trying to get this new keyboard membrane working. Your suggestion doesn't work because paper behind the whole membrane would block the keys from pressing the membrane on the one side. On the other side of the membrane it would block contact of the membrane to the PCB gold contacts for each key location.  So today I put a layer of paper six pages thick behind the gold fingers contacts area (no key depresses there) and that did not work. Only break worked iirc.  Then I had an idea...

 

I have two yet-to-install 1200XL membranes from BEST and included with that are the gold fingers contact PCB's. The PCB's aligned perfectly and looked like it could work. After all they are both Mitsumi of the same exact era. Photos below. I tried this BEST PCB installed with your board. It did not work. No keys registered. So I tried again to be sure it was aligned properly and had the same exact result. Again, the BEST PCB did not work.  Each try required removing all screws, installing membrane (etc) and then reinstalling all of the little screws, etc.

 

The very good news is that even though I had removed the original Mitsumi tape for the gold contact fingers, just placing it in the exact correct spot and putting the original Mitsumi membrane back in place, the keyboard fully works again! So while I'd love to have this new membrane installed and working, the original will do for now.

 

Shows that your mylar looks to be properly aligned with this Mitsumi board:

The above photo was taken on the first try, before I removed the original gold fingers contact strip.

 

Shows the Best Electronics PCBs, etc..

 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Sugarland