Games that should have been on Jaguar

[awbacon]

I was working on a Youtube episode for my odd game series, and I had been playing Septentrion / SOS for the SNES, and i realized games like this (and Clock Tower) would have made awesome Jaguar games. They feel very similar to Flashback, and the Jaguar version was always my favorite compared to the other versions. Human Entertainment could have brought a Fire Pro Wrestling or two to the Jag as well.

 

Graphically obviously the Jaguar could have handled it, and the keypad could have made a great option for the odd button layout of Septentrion. Considering it got a US SNES release, there was some sort of market for these types of games in N. America, and I think it would have fit in quite well on an Atari platform.

 

I guess its just Human produced games that really struck me as feeling "Jaguar like", but I'd love to hear others opinions on what games they think would be great on Jaguar (and the reason why)

 

I was thinking of doing a Jaguar season in the future. Any interest in that?

 

Here is the video btw in case you aren't familiar with the game

 

 

[Flojomojo]

Would you have paid $60 to play that on Jaguar in 1994?

[awbacon]

17 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

Would you have paid $60 to play that on Jaguar in 1994?

If the box was cool...probably? Lol. I did buy Bubsy 3D so ya never know

[JagChris]

They pay that much to play stuff like that now. 

[awbacon]

2 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

Would you have paid $60 to play that on Jaguar in 1994?

If the box was cool...probably? Lol. I did buy Bubsy 3D so ya never know

 

hell I paid full price for Bubsy on the Jaguar when it came out so my ability to pay a lot for bad games is high

[agradeneu]

I expected a lot more PC and Arcade ports: Sim City 2000, TIE Fighter, Day of the Tentacle Deluxe, Rebel Assault, Raiden II, Hexen, Heretic, Doom 2, Duke Nukem 3D, Mechwarrior, Jaguar Turrican, Gunship, Descent, Dark Forces, Jaguar Ultima

Edited September 3, 2019 by agradeneu

[awbacon]

9 minutes ago, agradeneu said:

I expected a lot more PC and Arcade ports: Sim City 2000, TIE Fighter, Day of the Tentacle Deluxe, Rebel Assault, Raiden II, Hexen, Heretic, Doom 2, Duke Nukem 3D, Mechwarrior, Jaguar Turrican, Gunship, Descent, Dark Forces, Jaguar Ultima

Heretic on Jaguar would have been awesome. I loved that back when it came out. Hexen didn’t impress me as much but a Jag Heretic would be awesome. 

 

I never loved point and click on consoles though. Day of the Tentacle would have been fun but after playing the Indiana Jones games on the FM Towns Marty id say adventure games on a controller are rough to deal with. 

 

Id love a port of a Duke for the Jaguar though. It would be interesting to see how the Build engine ran on the hardware. 

[swapd0]

Pong

[Machine]

*Pong 2000

[awbacon]

21 minutes ago, Machine said:

*Pong 2000

 

21 minutes ago, Machine said:

*Pong 2000

Whoa there. The Jaguar didn’t have unlimited processing power 

[walter_J64bit]

1 hour ago, Machine said:

*Pong 2000

Pong 64!

 

[Flojomojo]

2 hours ago, agradeneu said:

I expected a lot more PC and Arcade ports: Sim City 2000, TIE Fighter, Day of the Tentacle Deluxe, Rebel Assault, Raiden II, Hexen, Heretic, Doom 2, Duke Nukem 3D, Mechwarrior, Jaguar Turrican, Gunship, Descent, Dark Forces, Jaguar Ultima

While that would have been nice, when you look back on it, the Jag was lucky to get what it did. Sounds like DOOM bombed in terms of sales, and if that isn't a system seller, I don't know what is. 

 

Good post on the topic:

 

[+madman]

Checkered Flag 2 and CD-i ports for the JagCD. Atari would still be around.

[agradeneu]

4 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

While that would have been nice, when you look back on it, the Jag was lucky to get what it did. Sounds like DOOM bombed in terms of sales, and if that isn't a system seller, I don't know what is. 

 

Good post on the topic:

 

Software sells hardware, you can't get around this, and I'm quite sure Doom sold some more Jaguars. But you need sufficient quantitiy of system sellers to get some recognition, especially if the competition is strong. Doom was not a Jag exclusive too and released later than on the 32X. Plus the Jaguars reputation was already severely hurt: scarce releases and mostly subpar games. It was simply not enough to turn the tide.

Edited September 4, 2019 by agradeneu

[roots.genoa]

2 hours ago, agradeneu said:

Software sells hardware

And yet, the PS2 launch was a success in spite of an abysmal lineup, and several games that couldn't save the Wii U have become huge hits on Switch.

MARKETING SELLS HARDWARE - sad but true.

[Lost Dragon]

10 hours ago, agradeneu said:

I expected a lot more PC and Arcade ports: Sim City 2000, TIE Fighter, Day of the Tentacle Deluxe, Rebel Assault, Raiden II, Hexen, Heretic, Doom 2, Duke Nukem 3D, Mechwarrior, Jaguar Turrican, Gunship, Descent, Dark Forces, Jaguar Ultima

Gunship 2000 was started..source i contacted back in the day said early 3D modelling work and other early work underway before project shutdown. 

 

Doom II was only going to happen according to i. D if Doom sales met or exceeded sales expectations. 

 

 

Apparently they fell way below.

 

Lucas were quoted as asking if Atari with the Jaguar were for real?

 

So i would assume games like Dark Forces etc were never a possibility due to lack of a viable market for them.

 

Bill Rehbock was apparently tying to bring Descent to the Jaguar.

[Lost Dragon]

53 minutes ago, roots.genoa said:

And yet, the PS2 launch was a success in spite of an abysmal lineup, and several games that couldn't save the Wii U have become huge hits on Switch.

MARKETING SELLS HARDWARE - sad but true.

And the Playstation one by this time had a massive installed user base.

 

Plus the DVD playback angle.

 

 

Both key factors in gaining inital traction for the PS2.

 

I won a UK PS2 on Launch Day..terrible line up of games.

 

It wasn't until GTA3 and Silent Hill 2 arrived i was anything like convinced the machine had a future in my life.

[Austin]

The PS2's launch was "abysmal"? Where does that put the launch of something like the Jaguar? The seventh layer of hell?

[Flojomojo]

Sony had excellent past performance,  a huge stable of developers, and a whole lot of money. And it was a DVD player, which was fancy at the time. Marketing helps but it's not the only thing. 

[roots.genoa]

1 hour ago, Austin said:

The PS2's launch was "abysmal"? Where does that put the launch of something like the Jaguar? The seventh layer of hell?

Probably. I meant that compared to the expectations, the launch titles were really disappointing. But people tend to forget for example that Dreamcast launch lineup was also terrible in Japan.

 

Of course there are several factors, like a DVD player and great games but, at the end of the day, if consumers have no idea your system has great games or a DVD player, it doesn't matter. And guess what allows you to tell consumers about your system?

 

I remember clearly the marketing BS Sony pulled off for PS2 thanks to the Emotion Engine; people thought that you could finally feel 'real emotions' on the PS2... -_- I also remember my sister telling me she had heard there would be a Titanic game on it. Which was of course a huge deal at the time. In the press kit, George Lucas said he was shocked to see a machine capable of rendering the same visuals he had just created for The Phantom Menace. ?

Edited September 4, 2019 by roots.genoa

[awbacon]

1 hour ago, roots.genoa said:

Probably. I meant that compared to the expectations, the launch titles were really disappointing. But people tend to forget for example that Dreamcast launch lineup was also terrible in Japan.

 

Of course there are several factors, like a DVD player and great games but, at the end of the day, if consumers have no idea your system has great games or a DVD player, it doesn't matter. And guess what allows you to tell consumers about your system?

 

I remember clearly the marketing BS Sony pulled off for PS2 thanks to the Emotion Engine; people thought that you could finally feel 'real emotions' on the PS2... -_- I also remember my sister telling me she had heard there would be a Titanic game on it. Which was of course a huge deal at the time. In the press kit, George Lucas said he was shocked to see a machine capable of rendering the same visuals he had just created for The Phantom Menace. ?

Lolol to Phantom Menace level visuals

[agradeneu]

3 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

Probably. I meant that compared to the expectations, the launch titles were really disappointing. But people tend to forget for example that Dreamcast launch lineup was also terrible in Japan.

 

Of course there are several factors, like a DVD player and great games but, at the end of the day, if consumers have no idea your system has great games or a DVD player, it doesn't matter. And guess what allows you to tell consumers about your system?

 

I remember clearly the marketing BS Sony pulled off for PS2 thanks to the Emotion Engine; people thought that you could finally feel 'real emotions' on the PS2... -_- I also remember my sister telling me she had heard there would be a Titanic game on it. Which was of course a huge deal at the time. In the press kit, George Lucas said he was shocked to see a machine capable of rendering the same visuals he had just created for The Phantom Menace. ?

Around 4000 titles were released for the PS2 during it's lifetime, it has a huge library of  games and lots of classics. Do you really think 156 Million consoles were sold just on marketing metaphors and empty promises and people kept buying PS2s  because they had "no idea of games" and it was a nice piece of paperweight? Your argument is seriously flawed by just looking at the data. The PS2 had the best library of games, that was the most important reason it's still holds the title of the most popular console in history. Calling the launch of the PS2 "abysmal" in context of the Jaguar is quite a streeeeeeetch, GT3 was already presented at E3 and released in 2001, just like GTA 3. But surely the Jaguar would have sold 150 Million instead of just 150.000 if only Ataris marketing was better and more 64 bit "Do the math" lol

"Software sells hardware" is a mantra that worked well with most systems, even more so with Wii and PS3 which both were completely defined by their exclusive games. The turnaround Sony did with the PS3 is a fine example how that works and it benefitted them in the long run with the huge success of PS4 which is mostly an outcome of excellent brand reputation and the trust of people that sustainable software support justifies a longterm investment into new hardware.

Edited September 4, 2019 by agradeneu

[roots.genoa]

It may not have been the case before, but publishers tend to have a wait & see approach when a new system is released.

So of course PS2 got 4000 titles, because once a system is a success, and it happens usually in the first few months, publishers will release games for it. But yes, there's some kind of paradox here; a system must be a success before having games. Of course a 'killer app' can bring success from the get-go like WiiSports of Tetris, even though in both cases the Game Boy and the Wii had a strong concept (portability and motion gaming) that clicked with the audience at the time. It didn't work for the Wii U though, and even if it got great games that went on to meet big success on Switch, it was too late. I think the 3DS is a very rare case of a reversal of fortune, but its price was cut drastically.

It probably is not the worst in History, but PS2 launch line-up was widely considered as a huge letdown. However, like Flo said, it had a DVD player, and most of all it was the successor of a very popular system. Announcing GT3 at E3 wouldn't have had the same impact if GT and GT2 hadn't been the first and third best sold games on PlayStation 1. Even though Atari was a famous brand, the Jaguar was mostly perceived as a newcomer in the console wars. And the "do the math" angle didn't work because only gamers cared about that, not their parents that actually buy consoles.

Anway, just to move on because it's exhausting for me to debate in a foreign language, the quick version:
I admit that games are important, but I find annoying when people claim it's all that matters, because a lot of systems were failures in spite of great games. Actually, what helps a system to succeed is not no much having good games, but getting the right games - at the right time. So there's a bit of luck involved, but also A LOT of marketing.

 

Why do you think Tommy Tallarico likes to remind that he's teaming with people who launched the DS and the Wii? For example he shows Nintendogs in his graphic, but Perrin Kaplan clearly didn't create that game.

Edited September 4, 2019 by roots.genoa

[Cobra Kai]

11 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

Sony had excellent past performance,  a huge stable of developers, and a whole lot of money. And it was a DVD player, which was fancy at the time. Marketing helps but it's not the only thing. 

It was well known at the time that the PS2 was a loss leader for Sony to trojan-horse the DVD standard into every home. I remember it had an embarrassing release lineup of games. In fact I only remember one, Fantavision was it? I'm sure there were others, but off the top of my head I can't think of them. The DVD player was the most important part of that console, and DVDs sold the system while gamers waited on the good games to come out. I was not in the PS2 market at the time, it was $600 IIRC. This is how I remember it anyway. 

[+wongojack]

Resident Evil