Games that should have been on Jaguar

[agradeneu]

1 hour ago, Bill Loguidice said:

I never heard of this game before. I love the look of it. Despite the pedestrian pacing/frame rate, I feel like this would have been well beyond the Jaguar's capabilities as anything other than a heavily cut-down port. I feel like there are a lot more 3D calculations going on here than perhaps we might want to give it credit for. 

Looks very similar to Iron Soldier, in more than a few aspects. I doubt the cut downs would have been that heavy. Less polygons and details probably yes, but a similar gameplay expierence with a capable engine looks feasible.

Edited January 26, 2020 by agradeneu

[agradeneu]

53 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

I never heard of this game before. I love the look of it. Despite the pedestrian pacing/frame rate, I feel like this would have been well beyond the Jaguar's capabilities as anything other than a heavily cut-down port. I feel like there are a lot more 3D calculations going on here than perhaps we might want to give it credit for. 

Good call!

I hoped for a Mechwarrior game, based on 1 and 2, an optimized version for the Jaguar.

 

[awbacon]

On 1/26/2020 at 10:03 AM, Bill Loguidice said:

The 3DO M2 was a step beyond Saturn, PS1, and even the N64 in many ways, so it's definitely a lot to ask of a system that was technologically behind even those platforms to pull something like that off.

 

Do you remember the PS1 demo disc that came packed with various launch PS1's? It had this cool controllable dinosaur model with texture-mapping:

 

 

We never did see that level of detail in-game, obviously, but it was still cool. 

 

This is probably the closest equivalent to date (maybe? At least that I've seen) for the Jaguar on a textured 3D demo without game logic:

 

 

Certainly impressive in its own way, especially for a system not designed for 3D.

Man Dactyl Joust looked legit. Wish there was longer gameplay footage of it. 
 

https://youtu.be/d8HcDg1V--4

 

totally could have gotten a Jac CD port of Dracula Unleashed too

[awbacon]

 

[JagChris]

We don't know if there was game logic in Dactyl Joust or not. There might have been. The one Rider veers towards the player but seems like. It's got collision detection. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by JagChris

[Bill Loguidice]

20 minutes ago, JagChris said:

We don't know if there was game logic in Dactyl Joust or not. There might have been. The one Rider veers towards the player but seems like. It's got collision detection. 

That's always the big question with stuff like this... When you add in the stuff that makes a game a game, will it still have reasonable performance.

[agradeneu]

19 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

That's always the big question with stuff like this... When you add in the stuff that makes a game a game, will it still have reasonable performance.

Was Dactyl Joust ever confirmed running on real Jaguar hardware? A lot of 3D engines were developed on/for PC, e.g. "Freelancer", and planned to be ported to the Jaguar later. 

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by agradeneu

[JagChris]

I think Songbird would remember the details of where this was shown at. I believe he was there. Eric Nofsinger demoing it on a real Jag  at a convention in the early 2Ks?

[awbacon]

 

In the vein of Jaguar demo compilations, I tossed one together for M2. I wonder had we gotten Jag II what the power comparison would have been like

[awbacon]

now this I could def see on Jaguar. Atari could have paid for a translation and license and had a game shipping quickly. Plus visually it looks “Jag” like to me for a 2D game 

[Bill Loguidice]

8 hours ago, awbacon said:

now this I could def see on Jaguar. Atari could have paid for a translation and license and had a game shipping quickly. Plus visually it looks “Jag” like to me for a 2D game 

I'm not sure how big of a market there is for visual novels now, but there really wasn't any type of market for it in the US then. Atari needed more impactful cartridge games to goose poor console sales, not more niche CD games for a poor selling add-on for a poor selling console.

[awbacon]

On 2/4/2020 at 4:43 PM, Bill Loguidice said:

I'm not sure how big of a market there is for visual novels now, but there really wasn't any type of market for it in the US then. Atari needed more impactful cartridge games to goose poor console sales, not more niche CD games for a poor selling add-on for a poor selling console.

 

Even a straight port of a SNES Castlevania game would have been awesome. Was Atari just not trying to get Japanese companies (Capcom / Konami) on board or were they just not interested?

[Bill Loguidice]

5 minutes ago, awbacon said:

 

Even a straight port of a SNES Castlevania game would have been awesome. Was Atari just not trying to get Japanese companies (Capcom / Konami) on board or were they just not interested?

I don't think it was that simple for Atari. They had a hard enough time getting the publishers who promised games to deliver much of anything, if at all, let alone entice other companies like Konami and Capcom to port their stuff over. It's important to remember too that the Jaguar had extremely weak console sales numbers, so there was nothing to entice publishers to deliver post-launch. The Jaguar was essentially in a Catch-22. And of course Atari themselves didn't have the financial resources to pay to bring some bigger name titles over. All Atari really could do to entice people was run the "we're more powerful angle," which clearly didn't work with the public who would have been more impressed with games that instead clearly demonstrated the console's supposed advantages.

[marcio_napoli]

Agree with Bill.  Just today I was watching some YT Jag history videos, and thought "well, for a moment let's not think what could have happened - better dev kit and documentation, Atari management less sucky, etc - for a moment let's focus on what the Jag really, actually had going for it".

 

When we (at least I) think of Jag's lineup, there're some amazing, really lovely games in there, which when you sum all of them up, Jag's collection is actually pretty impressive.

 

The problem is that this is looking things back from the 2020 angle.

 

Rayman is insanely impressive, but it came out 1995.

 

Iron Soldier 2 is arguably a real hardware pusher, super far draw distance, fully textured geometry, actually amazing poly count (when you factor in the explosions), etc. But yeah, didn't came during Jag's commercial lifespan.

 

Same applies to Skyhammer, Another World, Battle Sphere, Phase Zero...

 

These are all super impressive software. They showcase what the Jag can do, and that's no slouch.  I'd say these games are more visually appealing than many N64 titles.

 

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut... None of them came in 1993, when the Jag really needed.

 

Had at least 2 or 3 of these came in 93, the entire Jag's story would have been different, no doubt.

 

None of these are wishfull thinking, these are real, they happened.  They just didn't came when they could have saved the Jag.  Wrong timing.

 

Jag's is amazingly powerful and underrated, it just had everything going against it, timing, management, etc.  So unfortunate.

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by marcio_napoli

[awbacon]

True. I kind of forget the “heavy hitters” came late into the life cycle. 
 

https://youtu.be/WR2SN4mdMFc

 

this one reminded me a lot of Dracula : the Undead on Lynx. Would love to see it on Jag. 
 

I still need to play Iron Soldier 2. Have only played number 1