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Games that should have been on Jaguar

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On 9/3/2019 at 9:51 PM, agradeneu said:

I expected a lot more PC and Arcade ports: Sim City 2000, TIE Fighter, Day of the Tentacle Deluxe, Rebel Assault, Raiden II, Hexen, Heretic, Doom 2, Duke Nukem 3D, Mechwarrior, Jaguar Turrican, Gunship, Descent, Dark Forces, Jaguar Ultima

When you look at later interviews with John Carmack, you can see the same sentiments he expressed about Doom 2 being a possibility on Jaguar,if Doom sold well enough.

 

 

He clearly loved the Nintendo DS hardware and said he'd be watching how mature -rated games sold on it,before committing to several DS specific projects he had in mind..

 

 

 

And had considered upscale Orcs And Elves from the DS to the Wii as the Wii Wand made for an ideal fit, but again, was watching how software sold on the platform. 

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Hell why couldn't Capcom gotten some ports from the CPS 2, or even the original CPS. Had enough RAM, processor was def fast enough. I'd love to see a SF or a Vampire Savior on the platform. 

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Too many honestly. Maybe I mentioned that before: a Zelda and a Diablo styled action RPG....yummi 🙂

Or a turn based strategy RPG, I  liked "Darkest Dungeon" a lot.

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On 9/22/2019 at 4:09 PM, Lost Dragon said:

When you look at later interviews with John Carmack, you can see the same sentiments he expressed about Doom 2 being a possibility on Jaguar,if Doom sold well enough.

 

 

He clearly loved the Nintendo DS hardware and said he'd be watching how mature -rated games sold on it,before committing to several DS specific projects he had in mind..

 

 

 

And had considered upscale Orcs And Elves from the DS to the Wii as the Wii Wand made for an ideal fit, but again, was watching how software sold on the platform. 

There were also "rumours" about Rebel Assault coming to Jaguar CD. Never happened, I was screwed :-D

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7 hours ago, agradeneu said:

Too many honestly. Maybe I mentioned that before: a Zelda and a Diablo styled action RPG....yummi 🙂

Or a turn based strategy RPG, I  liked "Darkest Dungeon" a lot.

The 3DO D&D games would have made a great candidate to get ported to Jaguar. Similar hardware and has the same vibe and graphical style as Towers II

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20 minutes ago, awbacon said:

The 3DO D&D games would have made a great candidate to get ported to Jaguar. Similar hardware and has the same vibe and graphical style as Towers II

No, not 3D RPGs.

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I played Side Pocket on the SNES over the weekend, and I couldn't help but think this would have been nice to have an upgraded version on our Jag. Graphically the SNES version is nice, but it could use some more ticks of precision on the aiming, that perhaps a Jag version could have improved some. 

 

I also considered this game would fill a true void in the library. 

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On 9/19/2019 at 8:24 PM, Kalani said:

Pre-orders  to  distributors and Retailers. Missing getting mass inventory out it's first Xmas hurt it  it's jump in intial msrp hurt it originally it was announced at $150 USD.  

My thoughts too. Retailers might've ordered a large number of units which Atari couldn't fulfill, especially if those retailers wanted to buy on credit. Two million units sold on credit would've wiped out Atari Corp's bank account.

 

Atari Corp had about $150 million, if memory serves. Assuming it cost $200 to build & ship each console, two million consoles would've cost them about $400 million dollars. Shoot, even one million consoles would've cost too much to produce.

 

And two million units to retailers doesn't sound all that incredible; if ten thousand stores each ordered two hundred units you'd have 2,000,000 preorders. (Or twenty thousand stores ordered 100 units, etc.)

 

Of course this is highly speculative & based on a few assumptions. Consider it a hypothesis, one which needs a lot of testing.

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AvP on Jaguar would have been awesome lol...dueling AvP games. How funny would it have been if the two best (subjective I know, but AvP was the reason I bought a Jaguar back in the day) games on the system were BOTH AvP lol

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2 hours ago, awbacon said:

 

AvP on Jaguar would have been awesome lol...dueling AvP games. How funny would it have been if the two best (subjective I know, but AvP was the reason I bought a Jaguar back in the day) games on the system were BOTH AvP lol

Yes the Jaguar library lacked a true beatemup. Another void unfulfilled. Too bad Conan (Legend) didn't make it.

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Maybe a better question would be, which Sega games should have been on Jaguar? Atari and Sega had a deal of cross publishing which excluded Sonic among other things. Sadly it never came to fruition when Atari collapsed, but seeing Sega arcade racing games on the Jag would've been cool. 

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The Atari Jaguar has a keyboard controller which would accommodate the controls for this:

 

When I saw that controller back in the day I remember saying to a couple friends of mine how cool it would be to see Intellivision's AD&D Tarmin/Minotaur remade with updated graphics, different weapons, more enemies, different armor... keep the whole concept but upgrade the game from the ground up. I still like this idea. *shrug*

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2 hours ago, swapd0 said:

Yeah, Daytona USA 1fps version XD

First of all, he never said Daytona USA. That was you.

 

Here's his post - would you please point out where he specifically  asked for Daytona USA ?

3 hours ago, Arcadia said:

Maybe a better question would be, which Sega games should have been on Jaguar? Atari and Sega had a deal of cross publishing which excluded Sonic among other things. Sadly it never came to fruition when Atari collapsed, but seeing Sega arcade racing games on the Jag would've been cool. 

 

2 hours ago, swapd0 said:

Yeah, Daytona USA 1fps version XD

Second, I just checked the third track of Daytona USA on the YT longplay. 95% of time the only car on screen is just player's car. And it could be a sprite, there's certainly enough RAM for 15 frames of the car as the track textures surely wouldn't take more than 0.5MB.

 

Most importantly, the track is so simple and empty that there's no reason jag couldn't do it textured in 15-20 fps, assuming of course, the rasterizer is parallelized across all 3 processors (GPU,DSP,68000).

 

But, I presume you meant 68000-only rasterizer - then yeah, 68000 would barely texture that scene at 1 fps.

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2 hours ago, swapd0 said:

Yeah, Daytona USA 1fps version XD

There are pre Daytona USA racers by Sega that the Jag could handle. Super Monaco Gp, Super Hang On, Power Drift, Enduro Racer etc... Most of which could have been slightly improved from previous ports (maybe not Power Drift). Enduro Racer never got a proper port, the Master System version was nothing like the arcade game.

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7 minutes ago, Kobra Kai said:

There are pre Daytona USA racers by Sega that the Jag could handle. Super Monaco Gp, Super Hang On, Power Drift, Enduro Racer etc... Most of which could have been slightly improved from previous ports (maybe not Power Drift). Enduro Racer never got a proper port, the Master System version was nothing like the arcade game.

True, but there are also slightly more obscure but even better candidates for jaguar:

Final Lap R

F1 Super Lap

 

Final Lap R doesn't even have roadside props, it's just textured road and grass. 30 fps effortlessly and 50 fps on PAL with some additional effort.

 

Regardless, at 12 fps, we have 60 / 12 = 5 frames worth of 68000/GPU/DSP time available.

 

That means 5x the amount of screen it can texture at 60 fps (e.g. 1 frame).

 

I'd argue that for the third track at Daytona, given that GPU can texture the road during 1 frame (at 60 fps), it should be possible to run the track at 10 fps fully textured even without using DSP. Car as a bitmap, though, a reasonable compromise given the discrepancy in the HW (Daytona vs Arcade).

Throw in DSP and you can expect to shave off ~1-2 frames, e.g. 60 / (5-3) = ~20 fps, but of course, with framedrops based on current scene complexity. Still playable, though.

 

 

But, very highly unlikely that much engineering effort could have ever been done at the time.

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4 hours ago, Arcadia said:

Maybe a better question would be, which Sega games should have been on Jaguar? Atari and Sega had a deal of cross publishing which excluded Sonic among other things. Sadly it never came to fruition when Atari collapsed, but seeing Sega arcade racing games on the Jag would've been cool. 

 

53 minutes ago, VladR said:

First of all, he never said Daytona USA. That was you.

 

Here's his post - would you please point out where he specifically  asked for Daytona USA ?

 

He was asking for a sega game and I choose that one, of couse there are more sega games like kongo bongo, zaxxon, pengo... etc But I prefer a Daytona USA at 1fps because it has textured polygons, and at that time everybody wanted textured polygons.

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23 hours ago, Kobra Kai said:

Yes the Jaguar library lacked a true beatemup. Another void unfulfilled. Too bad Conan (Legend) didn't make it.

Conan would have been great. And it's true, the beat em up void was definitely a bummer considering how big of a genre that was back then.

 

 

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1 hour ago, swapd0 said:

 

He was asking for a sega game and I choose that one, of couse there are more sega games like kongo bongo, zaxxon, pengo... etc But I prefer a Daytona USA at 1fps because it has textured polygons, and at that time everybody wanted textured polygons.

You chose a game that was state of the art, dedicated arcade hardware in 1994. Nobody would expect the 1995 Jaguar to run that game. Sega couldn't get Daytona right on their own home hardware until Dreamcast. I think you went for the cheap zinger.

 

But, what is this Atari/ Sega cross publishing deal mentioned above? Is that regarding some of the Tengen releases on Genesis like Hard Drivin and Roadblasters? Maybe Sega had something going with Atari Games division, but there certainly wasn't any mutual pact going the other way. I can't think of any Sega games on Lynx or Jag.

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8 hours ago, Arcadia said:

Maybe a better question would be, which Sega games should have been on Jaguar? Atari and Sega had a deal of cross publishing which excluded Sonic among other things. Sadly it never came to fruition when Atari collapsed, but seeing Sega arcade racing games on the Jag would've been cool. 

Seeing them on the Sega CD would of been a start. 

 

Sega really blew the potential there 😢

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1 hour ago, Kobra Kai said:

You chose a game that was state of the art, dedicated arcade hardware in 1994. Nobody would expect the 1995 Jaguar to run that game. Sega couldn't get Daytona right on their own home hardware until Dreamcast. I think you went for the cheap zinger.

 

But, what is this Atari/ Sega cross publishing deal mentioned above? Is that regarding some of the Tengen releases on Genesis like Hard Drivin and Roadblasters? Maybe Sega had something going with Atari Games division, but there certainly wasn't any mutual pact going the other way. I can't think of any Sega games on Lynx or Jag.

The stock of the Atari Corporation rose 11 percent yesterday after the video game company said Sega Enterprises Ltd., the Japanese video game giant, had received regulatory approval to make a $90 million investment in Atari. The transaction was completed later in the day. In an agreement announced in September, Sega will pay Atari $50 million in exchange for a license from Atari covering the use of the company's patents. Atari, based in Sunnyvale, Calif., also received a $40 million equity investment. The companies will also license each other's video games until 2001. Atari's shares rose 56.25 cents, to $5.50, on the American Stock Exchange.

 

Scott Stilphen kindly shared the documentation explaining which titles Atari wanted on Jaguar from Sega:

 

http://assemblergames.com/threads/jaguar-unreleased-games-info.20747/page-5

Edited by Lost Dragon
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Coin op Daytona USA ran at 60 FPS

 

The rushed, launch title for the Saturn ran at around 20 FPS..and suffered from a much lower polygon count, screen resolution and texture detail, let alone worse camera and horrific pop-in and shorter draw distance etc.

 

Lord only knows how badly the planned 32X version would of fared. 

 

Daytona CCE made graphical improvements but was bases around a modified Saturn Sega Rally Game Engine and they managed to screw the car handling up the second time around.

 

 

Don't forget the PC versions of Daytona USA either:

 

(From Sega Retro)

 

The Saturn version of Daytona USA was ported to Windows PCs in 1996, and offers only limited improvements over its console counterpart. By default the game does not use "true" hardware acceleration (using the Windows DirectDraw API - a 2D rendering system not always tailored for the many competing 3D accelerator cards on the market at the time), rendering an image similar to that of the Saturn (complete with "checkerboard" semi-transparency and even Saturn controllers on the car select screen), although both 320x240 and 640x480 screen resolutions are supported (the latter only affecting 3D elements, with 2D graphics such as the HUD simply being resized to fit). In both modes, draw distances, frame rate and camera transitions are similar (if not identical) to the original Saturn version.

In Japan (and possibly elsewhere), two versions of the PC port were released due to the changing nature of the PC market of the time. The first "Requires Expansion Board" version (HCJ-0110) is optimised to take advantage of the Diamond Edge 3D and Leadtek WinFast 3D GD400 video cards, while the second (HCJ-0121) utillises Microsoft's DirectX technology (and requires Windows 95). Content wise the two versions are identical.

 

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Getting grounded firmly in reality here just for a moment...

 

 

 

Cisco Heat was annouced for the Jaguar and whilst i have no idea if coding was ever started and if so, by whom, it might of showcased the Jaguar hardware in this regard, although by this time the game itself was rather long in the tooth..

 

Caspain Software Zero 5 fame ) did sone peliminary coding on a Scaler type racing game for the Jaguar, Atari rejected it.

 

And looking at Atari documentation, certain Atari Project Managers felt Super Burnout was only a B- title.

 

So i doubt there was much desire within Atari to bring more Scaler Based Racers to the Jaguar.

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