Does this confirm Mortal Kombat 3 was in development on the Jaguar!?

[Adriano Arcade]

Confirmation that Mortal Kombat 3 on the Jag was in development!?

 

Interview:

 

https://www.arcadeattack.co.uk/tal-funke-bilu-atari/

Edited September 7, 2019 by Adriano Arcade

[Welshworrier]

Or, that he confused it with fight for life.

 

Yes it was going to be on jaguar, as the contracts said, but didn't appear to have any work done or assets supplied.

[Lost Dragon]

Welshworrier pretty much summed things up in a nutshell. 

 

 

I don't think there was ever any doubt work was actually started on Jaguar Mortal Kombat 3..as the contracts and later documentation from Probe Software detailing it was to be converted from the Playstation version by the coder who had converted Mortal Kombat to the PC, surfaced (thanks to Scott Stilphen for those documents).

 

 

It's always been a matter of  just how far along it actually got.

 

Some ex-Atari sources suggest a character select screen,  title screen etc done (enough to warrant inital milestone payments) with others from within the Jaguar community saying it was near finished and shown at E3 and they played it..yet there has never been any magazine coverage or video footage found unlike Conan and Phear. 

 

 

He makes multiple references to his memory being hazy on other games and can't seem to go into much detail regarding just how far along MK3 got.

 

 

Great interview but i would error on the side of caution somewhat regarding hopes playable code might exist based on his recollection. 

[Lost Dragon]

Prior to working on AEO, Tal used to post a lot of profanity laden comments online.

 

He thankfully seemed to mature over time but comments like:

 

:Listen up you dumbf##k.
Have you ever played Cybermorph.  I didn't think so.
Have you ever seen it in person.  I didn't think so.

Keep your damn kindergarten mouth shut, asshole...
On second thought, you're just a whole ass."

 

And:

 

"I'm fed up with all those people who bash a f#cking system before they
even get their god damn hands on it.
I have a Jag in my room currently and let me tell you it kicks the 3D0's ass.
The CD32 doesn't even come close.

 

 

Cybermorph is killer.

I don't give a f#ck how fast this is or how powerful that is. I have played the Jag's competition, and now I have a Jag.
I will definately stick with my Jag!  I can't wait till the CD comes out.

I am a good friend of an employee of Atari, in case you are wondering.

 

I personally think Nintendo can stick their dumbass Project Reality where
the sun don't shine.  what gives them the right to show screenshots from another
f#cking system.  Once you get a game running on your own hardware, then you can brag.

 

 But if you only have an idea in your head (or on a SG machine) then keep
your stupid "get the public hyped over nothing" mouth shut."

 

(I Censored the swear words) did him no favours in my eyes and he was never someone who I had that much time for because of.

 

 

And "F^$*ing dumbass 3do owner who is pissed a $250 machine is outselling
the $700 one he had his mother buy for him a week before the price
went down..."

 

 

He censored  the swear words there himself.

 

He just came across as far too ranty to be taken seriously. 

 

He worked better during his time at Beyond Games giving brief updates on Battlewheels and breaking the news negotiations with Atari for it on Jaguar had stopped and game was now headed to PC and Playstation,  but heavy use of profanities is the way to loose any hope you have of making a case for your side of a discussion. 

 

The 3DO had titles the Jaguar could only dream of and rather than accept it , let alone the CD32 had titles the Jaguar could of done with, he often went into full on fan boy mode.

 

Shame.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Lost Dragon

[JagChris]

He was just passionate.

[JagChris]

I reread the interview. He seems pretty definite about MK3 the way he brought it up without much coaxing. 

 

If Probe was doing it that's unfortunate. Those guys were doing so many ports at once it seems they were overwhelmed and overworked. As appears to be the case with Primal Rage. 

[JagChris]

Quote

When Atari shut down I was working as an Associate Producer on The Further Adventures of Major Havoc (with Beyond Games) and a spiritual Crystal Castles sequel with a company out of San Luis Obispo (I forget their name, it wasn’t the Oddworld guys).

Also would be nice to see some more in depth info on these things.

[Welshworrier]

Given that he can't remember the name of the company,  details on a vague spiritual crystal castles sequel"  would not really be of much jaguar interest.

 

Especially since he says that occurred "AFTER ATARI SHUT DOWN", as it would limit sales somewhat.

[Lost Dragon]

55 minutes ago, Welshworrier said:

Given that he can't remember the name of the company,  details on a vague spiritual crystal castles sequel"  would not really be of much jaguar interest.

 

Especially since he says that occurred "AFTER ATARI SHUT DOWN", as it would limit sales somewhat.

Luckily Scott Stilphen had the weekly status report compiled by Tal dated Jan 12 1996

 

Major Havoc 2000:Minter just handed in his 2 weeks notice so Atari would need a new development team, Tal suggests Beyond Games as they were fans on the coin-op, had an arcade machine in their offices..

 

Had expressed significant interest in doing it..were confident they could produce it in time for Xmas 96 and within a reasonable budget as game would not require a complex engine.

 

He was in process of trying to contact Owen Rubin to see if he still had source code for the arcade original. .

 

Beyond Crystal Castles:

 

Inital proposal put forward with preliminary art work and sketches. .

 

He had touched bases as he put it with Susan Kelly , producer at Wavecrest, meeting set up to review inital TDR documents and newer art revisions

 

 

As for MK3..

 

Fax from Robert O'Farrel (Probe) to Farran T detailing Probe had found coder to convert MK 3 and it was person who had coded Original Mortal Kombat on PC. 

 

Files been up online for good few months now

 

Kris Johnson of Beyond Games also stated he had been trying to reach Owen Rubin as he had Q's about how coin op logic worked in Major Havoc, so they were clearly keen to try and do an update but this is the same Beyond who admitted they were not even sure what direction to take their own title, Battlewheels in on Jaguar...

 

Talked of doing a 3D Platform Game on Jaguar..

 

A FRPG on Jaguar...

 

 

Were in negotiations with Atari to do AVP on Jaguar.

 

 

Battlewheels never progressed very far..

 

Atari pulled plug on AVP II negotiations. .

 

The FRPG and 3D Platformer never went anywhere. .

 

The 3DO enhanced version of Ultra Vortex was just talk

 

And the Jaguar version pulled in scores of:

 

3/10 Edge

21% Ultimate Future Games 

33% Gamesmaster 

 

Magazines. ..

 

PC and Playstation Battlewheels joined the Jaguar version on the scrapheap.

 

 

As did their unnamed FPS on PS2/Xbox and G.C..which looked very generic:

 

 

So maybe just as well all they did was talk a good talk. 

 

 

Minter's take on Major Havoc i would of liked to of seen. 

 

Beyond's not so much.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Lost Dragon

[Kalani]

What's with all the based on PlayStation ports? I didn't think their system architecture were similar at all.. 

Makes me wish Jag mk3 source leaked with the Psx, PC, 3do, and N64. 

[Lost Dragon]

13 minutes ago, Kalani said:

What's with all the based on PlayStation ports? I didn't think their system architecture were similar at all.. 

Makes me wish Jag mk3 source leaked with the Psx, PC, 3do, and N64. 

It was in the faxes between Probe and Atari.

 

Probe were planning to use the Playstation code as the base code for conversion to the Jaguar .

 

Exactly what assets and code could be converted was never mentioned.

 

 

Probe used old ST code for the basis of Bubble Bobble on the Playstation so it wasn't unusual for them to use home version code rather than actual coin op code.

 

 

HVS did similar with NBA JAM. .Jaguar version based on 32X version code. 

[Lost Dragon]

1 hour ago, Welshworrier said:

Given that he can't remember the name of the company,  details on a vague spiritual crystal castles sequel"  would not really be of much jaguar interest.

 

Especially since he says that occurred "AFTER ATARI SHUT DOWN", as it would limit sales somewhat.

And yes given he now cannot even remember the name Wavequest, it's unlikely he would even remember what he did manage to detail on the game back in his original play test report ?

 

So...

 

Fuzzy memory on:

 

Beyond Crystal Castles-Hover Strike and Defender 2000..(documents found on first and third title, commercial releases for latter 2 titles) but apparently pretty crystal on play testing Mortal Kombat III which Atari never showed running at any trade event or on any demo tape to dealerships etc...

 

 

Sounds like a credible source ?

 

 

Edited September 7, 2019 by Lost Dragon

[JagChris]

Why are you belittling this guy right out of the gate? 

 

This is bad form. Something akin to how you view his profane posts of years gone by. 

[+CyranoJ]

36 minutes ago, JagChris said:

Why are you belittling this guy right out of the gate? 

 

This is bad form. Something akin to how you view his profane posts of years gone by. 

Because certain people here like to take whifs of, lets say, more fantastic things, and parade them around as absolute truths.

[JagChris]

 

 

Care to elaborate? And also how this gives him the right to be rude and belittling to someone who isn't here to defend himself?

[+madman]

The NBA Jam TE we got is a great version, it would've been nice to have MK2 vs MK3 IMO. At the time, the best version available on home consoles was on the 32x which is an excellent port. Of course people would've been forced to shell out for 2 Pro controllers as well, making either game a big pill to swallow. 

[+CyranoJ]

30 minutes ago, JagChris said:

 

 

Care to elaborate? And also how this gives him the right to be rude and belittling to someone who isn't here to defend himself?

 

No, because what I said had nothing to do with that, it was a statement. You're the one drawing attention to it.

[Lost Dragon]

I have Jagchris on ignore but CyranoJ has kindly quoted him.

 

Quick history lesson Chris..

 

In all the time i have been here, you've openly attacked:

 

Rebellion for poor work ethics 

 

Probe for being lazy

 

ATD for similar 

 

Mike Diskett of Bullfrog for slowdown in Syndicate and Theme Park without even trying to understand how the game logic worked and then you claimed he should never of attempted to code Magic Carpet on the Jaguar by himself, he should of sought help which was non existent.

 

You tried to suggest you knew more about bringing Tempest 2000 to the PlayStation than Jeff Minter.

 

Yeah it's my personal opinion that Tal came across as a foul mouthed,blinkered individual when he was a mere poster like the rest of us great unwashed and I put his own comments as why I take that view.

 

But you of all people are not in a position to ask others why they are belittling anyone involved in the Commercial Games side of the Jaguar.

 

If he was unwilling to accept back then the 3DO and CD32 had titles Jaguar owners would of loved to of had,then more bloody fool him.

 

As for his I play tested Jaguar Mortal Kombat III claims...

 

Let's see some credible evidence it ever reached that far.

 

As it stands he's honest enough to admit his memory is hazy regarding his exact roles on Hoverstrike and Defender 2000 and could not remember the name of Wavequest, which is perfectly understandable as it's been a lot of years since, but we have his own documented playtester report as evidence to fill in the gaps in his memory. 

 

How about rather than the likes of myself having to put up actual Atari documentation kindly passed on by likes of Scott Stilphen for the good of the community so we get some idea of what actually went on between Atari and it's developers, you come forward with some credible evidence MK3 did reach playtesting stage

 

 

There's a whole stack of people who would love to see it.

 

Until then, i am going to stick with the payment schedules, Atari Status reports and faxes from Probe as credible evidence,along with the comments Farran T. has made about game being pushed back by Atari because they felt they had enough 2D fighting games as it was and there could well of been coding done on title screen/player select screens etc in order to get subsequent milestone payments. 

 

Rather than go off the flaky memory of one individual who tied his colours to the mast at an early stage and only learned how to communicate without falling into profanity once he became established at AEO. 

 

I'm grateful to Tal for giving his time to Arcade Attack and issuing updates regarding  Battlewheels back in the day.

 

Beyond were no better or no worse than any other third party developer on the Jaguar.

 

In fact I view them as i do Handmade Software-They got far more out of the Lynx than the Jaguar.

 

[Kalani]

17 minutes ago, madman said:

The NBA Jam TE we got is a great version, it would've been nice to have MK2 vs MK3 IMO. At the time, the best version available on home consoles was on the 32x which is an excellent port. Of course people would've been forced to shell out for 2 Pro controllers as well, making either game a big pill to swallow. 

Sega fans say the 32x version could of been better. The back grounds used the genisis hardware but didn't fully take advantage of the added color since it didn't have to do sprites. It be cool if the guy that did mk 2 unlimited hack and the color enhance hack do the same treatment to 32x. Any one seen the Mortal Kombat plus arcade mods? They also done nba jam. 

[Kalani]

2 minutes ago, Lost Dragon said:

I have Jagchris on ignore but CyranoJ has kindly quoted him.

 

Quick history lesson Chris..

 

In all the time i have been here, you've openly attacked:

 

Rebellion for poor work ethics 

 

Probe for being lazy

 

ATD for similar 

 

Mike Diskett of Bullfrog for slowdown in Syndicate and Theme Park without even trying to understand how the game logic worked and then you claimed he should never of attempted to code Magic Carpet on the Jaguar by himself, he should of sought help which was non existent.

 

You tried to suggest you knew more about bringing Tempest 2000 to the PlayStation than Jeff Minter.

 

Yeah it's my personal opinion that Tal came across as a foul mouthed,blinkered individual when he was a mere poster like the rest of us great unwashed and I put his own comments as why I take that view.

 

But you of all people are not in a position to ask others why they are belittling anyone involved in the Commercial Games side of the Jaguar.

 

If he was unwilling to accept back then the 3DO and CD32 had titles Jaguar owners would of loved to of had,then more bloody fool him.

 

As for his I play tested Jaguar Mortal Kombat III claims...

 

Let's see some credible evidence it ever reached that far.

 

As it stands he's honest enough to admit his memory is hazy regarding his exact roles on Hoverstrike and Defender 2000 and could not remember the name of Wavequest, which is perfectly understandable as it's been a lot of years since, but we have his own documented playtester report as evidence to fill in the gaps in his memory. 

 

How about rather than the likes of myself having to put up actual Atari documentation kindly passed on by likes of Scott Stilphen for the good of the community so we get some idea of what actually went on between Atari and it's developers, you come forward with some credible evidence MK3 did reach playtesting stage

 

 

There's a whole stack of people who would love to see it.

 

Until then, i am going to stick with the payment schedules, Atari Status reports and faxes from Probe as credible evidence,along with the comments Farran T. has made about game being pushed back by Atari because they felt they had enough 2D fighting games as it was and there could well of been coding done on title screen/player select screens etc in order to get subsequent milestone payments. 

 

Rather than go off the flaky memory of one individual who tied his colours to the mast at an early stage and only learned how to communicate without falling into profanity once he became established at AEO. 

 

I'm grateful to Tal for giving his time to Arcade Attack and issuing updates regarding  Battlewheels back in the day.

 

Beyond were no better or no worse than any other third party developer on the Jaguar.

 

In fact I view them as i do Handmade Software-They got far more out of the Lynx than the Jaguar.

 

I don't think you could ever have to many fighting games see the neo geo AES. Lol

[Lost Dragon]

He can join Atari Age Jagchris

 

 

Mike Diskett did just that when people refused to believe the quotes from him when I posted them up about Magic Carpet on Jaguar CD

 

 

Jeff Minter is on here and he's more than welcome to challenge my comments about how i felt Defender II on the ST and Defender 2000 on Jaguar were very dissapointing and how i wish he'd done the Star Raiders style game planned for Panther on later systems instead of updating other titles.

 

 

Are Rebellion /ATD/Probe/Dave Taylor of i.D here to respond to YOU belittling them and questioning their work ethics? 

 

If you need a hand getting off that moral high horse..best of luck

 

 

Oh wait let me guess..Jaguar MK3 reached playable stage but Sony paid to have it held back right? 

 

It's going to join Rayman and Zoom in the bumper book of batshit conspiracy nonsense. 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Lost Dragon

[Lost Dragon]

1 hour ago, Kalani said:

I don't think you could ever have to many fighting games see the neo geo AES. Lol

I bought MK3 on PlayStation out of desperation for new titles to play at the time.

 

Hated it :-)) 

[Lost Dragon]

1 hour ago, Kalani said:

Sega fans say the 32x version could of been better. The back grounds used the genisis hardware but didn't fully take advantage of the added color since it didn't have to do sprites. It be cool if the guy that did mk 2 unlimited hack and the color enhance hack do the same treatment to 32x. Any one seen the Mortal Kombat plus arcade mods? They also done nba jam. 

32X MK2 was dissapointing as well or so the press implied.

 

Smaller sprites and slower speed than the SNES version or was that incorrectly reported? 

[Lost Dragon]

Apologies to Arcade Attack. 

 

Last thing i wanted to do was derail your interview thread.

 

You know i appreciate the hardwork you guys put in reaching out to fresh Atari folk.

 

I just had Visions of this being used as proof MK3 was X amount finished and we still need a lot more sources and a lot more information to have any real idea just how far along it got.

[Kalani]

9 minutes ago, Lost Dragon said:

Apologies to Arcade Attack. 

 

Last thing i wanted to do was derail your interview thread.

 

You know i appreciate the hardwork you guys put in reaching out to fresh Atari folk.

 

I just had Visions of this being used as proof MK3 was X amount finished and we still need a lot more sources and a lot more information to have any real idea just how far along it got.

It's zero percent finished right now. Since nothing is available now. Some one should port it.  The source code and assets are available. I would help reformat/covert sound, music, or the art. The tedious grunt work. If they needed it.