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Does this confirm Mortal Kombat 3 was in development on the Jaguar!?

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49 minutes ago, Lost Dragon said:

He can join Atari Age Jagchris...

Holy Christ , walls of text... with the usual suspects liking it. Whatever.

 

You're right about one thing, he should join AA perhaps and share what he can remember. 

 

In the meantime Adrian perhaps you can see if he can give more info on what he remembers. Maybe then Crestfallen will be satisfied.

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17 minutes ago, JagChris said:

Holy Christ , walls of text... with the usual suspects liking it. Whatever.

 

Let's just paraphrase your dismissal for what it is here:

 

Guy who spends his time attacking devs (Rebellion) for no reason, despite plentuful facts proving him wrong then complains when other people question obviously fuzzy memories from another dev then plays the 'whatever' card to make people think he might, somehow, magically, have the moral high ground.

 

Whatever.

 

[Sorry for the edits, I've had about 4 hours sleep]

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7 hours ago, CyranoJ said:

 

Let's just paraphrase your dismissal for what it is here:

 

Guy who spends his time attacking devs (Rebellion) for no reason, despite plentuful facts proving him wrong then complains when other people question obviously fuzzy memories from another dev then plays the 'whatever' card to make people think he might, somehow, magically, have the moral high ground.

 

Whatever.

 

[Sorry for the edits, I've had about 4 hours sleep]

Good grief...

 

Let me guess 😁

 

A31/Jagchris having yet again entered a topic and  having had us answer his questions about a topic (Beyond Crystal Castles ) using actual Atari documentation (the very play tester report Tal himself wrote)..

 

Finds himself out of his depth and rather than come up any credible evidence MK3 reached the stage Tal suggests (no documents, video footage, not even a seperate play tester confirming it), exits stage left.

 

 

 

If it's not babble about Sony interference, the coders are apparently either ethically broken, lazy or incompetent.

 

 

 

 

Whatever indeed.

 

 

 

Edited by Lost Dragon
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Dear all

 

I have read everyone's comments with great interest. Firstly, I want to apologise as I do feel that the thread title was a tad cheeky and possibly click-baity. I obviously have no evidence how far along MK3 has come along. I just wanted to post my interviewees answers. For me personally, Tal was a gentleman to chat with and I really enjoyed his answers. 

 

I also don't like to see this community (or any for that matter) to argue with each other. We can all have opinions and different views, I feel we should all show respect to one-another. 

 

Thanks so much for checking out the interview and giving feedback.

 

Kind regards

 

Adrian

Edited by Adriano Arcade
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9 hours ago, Lost Dragon said:

Apologies to Arcade Attack. 

 

Last thing i wanted to do was derail your interview thread.

 

You know i appreciate the hardwork you guys put in reaching out to fresh Atari folk.

 

I just had Visions of this being used as proof MK3 was X amount finished and we still need a lot more sources and a lot more information to have any real idea just how far along it got.

I always respect your opinion and I know you appreciate our work. Thanks. :)

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34 minutes ago, Adriano Arcade said:

I always respect your opinion and I know you appreciate our work. Thanks. :)

I do appreciate your work and that appreciation has been earnt.

 

 

You and the team put a huge amount into your podcasts and interviews and from the time i spent reaching industry folk, i am very well aware the huge time sink it is and how difficult it can be to get people to answer Q's. 

 

The thread title could of been worded a little better perhaps but you did the interview and created the thread so it's yours to name.

 

 

The issue of Jaguar Mortal Kombat 3 is one of 'those' topics that seem to boil down to Camp A and Camp B.

 

Camp A:Games was at playable stage, running at E3/CES and person X played it and now person B believes he play tested it whilst at Atari.

 

 

But there's no physical evidence yet to support the above.

 

No play tester report documents- press coverage-nobody took shakey camcorder footage and from a show that had thousands of visitors and game on public play test only 1 person has come forward to say it was running? 

 

 

Camp B:Here's what has been found/shared from Ex-Atari folk like Farran T, faxes from Probe,  payment schedules and project status reports from Atari.

 

Lot more research required yet to get anything like a definitive answer.

 

There are a few leads if anybody wants to follow them up...

 

Potential future interview ideas for you guys in fact. .

Edited by Lost Dragon

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34 minutes ago, Adriano Arcade said:

Dear all

 

I have read everyone's comments with great interest. Firstly, I want to apologise as I do feel that the thread title was a tad cheeky and possibly click-baity. I obviously have no evidence how far along MK3 has come along. I just wanted to post my interviewees answers. For me personally, Tal was a gentleman to chat with and I really enjoyed his answers. 

 

I also don't like to see this community (or any for that matter) to argue with each other. We can all have opinions and different views, I feel we should all show respect to one-another. 

 

Thanks so much for checking out the interview and giving feedback.

 

Kind regards

 

Adrian

Turning this back onto potential interview material for you guys:

 

Robert O'Farrell (Probe Software) was the name on the fax explaining they had PC Mortal Kombat coder lined up for Jaguar MK3. 

 

DOS MK3 Credits

Conversion / Porting    Gary Liddon, Mark Roll
Graphics / Artwork    Andrew Jackson, John Tobias, John Vogel

 

Might be worth looking into interviews with them.

 

Multiple sources are the only way to build up the real picture. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Lost Dragon

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2 minutes ago, Lost Dragon said:

Turning this back onto potential interview material for you guys:

 

Robert O'Farrell (Probe Software) was the name on the fax explaining they had PC Mortal Kombat coder lined up for Jaguar MK3. 

 

DOS MK3 Credits

Conversion / Porting    Gary Liddon, Mark Roll
Graphics / Artwork    Andrew Jackson, John Tobias, John Vogel

 

Might be worth looking into interviews with them.

 

Multiple sources are the only way to build up the real picture. 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Lost Dragon

 

Thanks for the replies. I am not an expert on on this topic, but I do agree, it would be amazing to know for sure, how far MK3 development actually did go. I would love to help solve this riddle.

 

I have in fact got an exciting podcast interview already done with one of these names! Sadly, I didn't have time to ask him about MK3 on the Jag. But I can chase him up! I will look into these other names also.

 

Thanks my friend.

 

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23 minutes ago, Adriano Arcade said:

Hi Lost Dragon

 

Thanks for the replies. I am not an expert on on this topic, but I do agree, it would be amazing to know for sure, how far MK3 development actually did go. I would love to help solve this riddle.

 

I have in fact got an exciting podcast interview already done with one of these names! Sadly, I didn't have time to ask him about MK3 on the Jag. But I can chase him up! I will look into these other names also.

 

Thanks my friend.

 

😆 None of us are experts my friend but you pull off the best Jaguar interviews going, full stop.

 

I have zero love for MK3 as i have explained earlier,  bought it on Playstation and just hated it, but having proper closure on Jaguar MK3 would (hopefully) stop all the B.S that seems to follow it and that could only be a good thing.

 

Even if your contact himself cannot remember much, it'll be worth asking so he can be added to list of people known to be involved or removed from the potential candidates. 

 

He might know someone who might know someone or something. 

 

It's how a lot of information has come to light-A casual question being passed on and answers coming back in.

 

 

Sometimes the information comes from the most unlikely sources and it'd be great to see Arcade Attack get the scoop.

 

The very best of luck with your further research and let us know what he has to say.

 

😎

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On 9/7/2019 at 10:16 PM, Kalani said:

It's zero percent finished right now. Since nothing is available now. Some one should port it.  The source code and assets are available. I would help reformat/covert sound, music, or the art. The tedious grunt work. If they needed it. 

I have no skill in this area so I can't help, but this needs to be done! Someone, please work with Kalani on this! I need it!

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3 minutes ago, Kalani said:

All those source leaks and not one for Jaguar version.....  Perhaps it is more based on SNES, mega-drive versions that was done by sculpted software? 

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On 9/10/2019 at 11:50 PM, Kalani said:

All those source leaks and not one for Jaguar version.....  Perhaps it is more based on SNES, mega-drive versions that was done by sculpted software? 

Or perhaps, the Jag version was never started?

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29 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Or perhaps, the Jag version was never started?

Started but not to stage anything was actually playable..is most likely answer.

 

Payments for something were made, but a character select and title screen do not a game make.

 

 

 

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John Skruch (early 1997) when explaining why Atari Corp had cancelled all Jaguar development work (they were not making any money from it ) stated Mortal Kombat 3 had been planned but not completed.

 

Which again ties in with the idea inital coding work of some form had been undertaken.

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On 9/7/2019 at 9:28 AM, Welshworrier said:

Or, that he confused it with fight for life.

 

Yes it was going to be on jaguar, as the contracts said, but didn't appear to have any work done or assets supplied.

 

There's no way Tal or any of the other play testers at Atari Corp back then would've confused Mortal Kombat III with Fight for Life. No gamer would, and Tal was a gamer.

 

I knew Tal back then from having met him a couple of times in-person. Even played some games at Atari Media Day with him back then in... I can't remember if that was Summer 1994 or 1995. Probably 1995 since Ted Hoff was in-change and was opening *hinting* that he wanted to transform Atari Corp into a software publisher. If my memory serves me correctly, he was the one who coined "Atari Interactive" since Atari Games Corp/Time Warner Interactive obviously had the rights to the "Games" moniker. 

 

Tal and others, both employees of Atari Corp as well as the passionate fans, were greatly irritated with many in the commercial gaming press [cough, EGM, cough] and their constant belittling of the Jaguar's hardware, its 64-bit'ness, etc. They also especially disliked [California tax-cheat] Trip Hawkins of 3DO. Tal had a picture of Trip cut out from an interview in his cubicle at the time that had "facts" refuting most of Trip's claims about the 3DO and his criticisms of the Jag from some press interview posted right below Trip's comments.

 

Mortal Kombat III was a big deal at Atari Corp at the time. Even Sam Tramiel felt that was the make-it-or-break-it title for the Jag and in the end, they couldn't secure it licensing-wise. So if Tal says today MKIII was the best-looking arcade conversion for the Jag, or 2nd best behind Primal Rage, then I have no doubt that there's a version of it that was at least partially completed [an early Alpha version] for the Jag that they were play-testing at the time while keeping their fingers crossed that Sam could get the licensing secured from WMS Industries. Unfortunately, that didn't happen...

 

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Furthermore, that was the era of Atari Corp when Atari Corp employees stopped bad-mouthing Warner-era Atari Inc and openly praised that company, its former engineers and programmers, and wanted to emulate them by resurrecting those glory days. Sam Tramiel still made Commodore-era analogies [like comparing the possibility for the success of the JagCD based upon how well the 1541 sold with the Commodore 64] at the Shareholders Meetings, but the gaming employees at Atari Corp during the Jaguar era were choosing to believe "Atari" would once again become a gaming powerhouse.

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22 hours ago, Lynxpro said:

Furthermore, that was the era of Atari Corp when Atari Corp employees stopped bad-mouthing Warner-era Atari Inc and openly praised that company, its former engineers and programmers, and wanted to emulate them by resurrecting those glory days. Sam Tramiel still made Commodore-era analogies [like comparing the possibility for the success of the JagCD based upon how well the 1541 sold with the Commodore 64] at the Shareholders Meetings, but the gaming employees at Atari Corp during the Jaguar era were choosing to believe "Atari" would once again become a gaming powerhouse.

But was this not also the same era people within Atari genuinely thought Fight For Life was every bit as good as Virtua Fighter on Saturn and Tekken on Playstation? 

 

Sam Tramiel was telling press Jaguar was more powerful than the Saturn and not that far behind the Playstation? 

 

Lying about the actual role a certain UK Engineer was playing at Atari Corp?

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23 hours ago, Lynxpro said:

 

There's no way Tal or any of the other play testers at Atari Corp back then would've confused Mortal Kombat III with Fight for Life. No gamer would, and Tal was a gamer.

 

I knew Tal back then from having met him a couple of times in-person. Even played some games at Atari Media Day with him back then in... I can't remember if that was Summer 1994 or 1995. Probably 1995 since Ted Hoff was in-change and was opening *hinting* that he wanted to transform Atari Corp into a software publisher. If my memory serves me correctly, he was the one who coined "Atari Interactive" since Atari Games Corp/Time Warner Interactive obviously had the rights to the "Games" moniker. 

 

Tal and others, both employees of Atari Corp as well as the passionate fans, were greatly irritated with many in the commercial gaming press [cough, EGM, cough] and their constant belittling of the Jaguar's hardware, its 64-bit'ness, etc. They also especially disliked [California tax-cheat] Trip Hawkins of 3DO. Tal had a picture of Trip cut out from an interview in his cubicle at the time that had "facts" refuting most of Trip's claims about the 3DO and his criticisms of the Jag from some press interview posted right below Trip's comments.

 

Mortal Kombat III was a big deal at Atari Corp at the time. Even Sam Tramiel felt that was the make-it-or-break-it title for the Jag and in the end, they couldn't secure it licensing-wise. So if Tal says today MKIII was the best-looking arcade conversion for the Jag, or 2nd best behind Primal Rage, then I have no doubt that there's a version of it that was at least partially completed [an early Alpha version] for the Jag that they were play-testing at the time while keeping their fingers crossed that Sam could get the licensing secured from WMS Industries. Unfortunately, that didn't happen...

 

No disrespect intended to Tal, but until some play testers reports or actual footage actually surfaces, we are still left with the little documentation that has been found and shared (payment details, conversations between Probe and Atari) and a lot of anecdotal evidence. 

 

 

Even a title screen or character select screen with confirmation of who drew them would be something. 

 

I'm still hoping Arcade Attack can find and interview the PC coder of Mortal Kombat Probe say they were assigning to Jaguar MK3. .

 

He should be able to explain the situation. 

 

 

MK3 has become one of those mythical titles that many swear reached playable state and if correct, it's really frustrating that so little is still known on it and it's so puzzling as to why Atari wasn't promoting the hell out of it.

 

They showed very early footage of much, much weaker titles time and time again.

 

Why hold back a killer app?

Edited by Lost Dragon

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I would rather have had  Street Fighter 2 than MK3. Both games were great but I was more Street Fighter fan.

 

Both would have been better than Krapsumi Ninja. Was so disappointed with that game! 🤬😵

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5 minutes ago, VintageGamer74 said:

I would rather have had  Street Fighter 2 than MK3. Both games were great but I was more Street Fighter fan.

 

Both would have been better than Krapsumi Ninja. Was so disappointed with that game! 🤬😵

More has come to light as to why that turned out as poorly as it did. .It was far from the cut and dry version of events Jim Gregory gave...blame Atari, but yeah, it was not the subsitute Atari needed, but nor were Double Dragon 5 or Dragon:Bruce Lee Story. 

 

Did you ever try Ultra Vortek? 

 

If Sega could produce Eternal Champions on Genesis and Sega CD both 16 bit Systems..

 

Jaguar should of had a worthy SF2/MK clone of it's own.

Edited by Lost Dragon

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6 minutes ago, VintageGamer74 said:

@Lost Dragon: Never played Ultra Vortek. I was into Capcom, SNK and other 2-D fighters.

 

I swore off Atari fighting games because of Krapsumi. Is it any good?

 

 

Not to just jump in here, but I love Ultra Vortek. Visually, it's like an Iron Maiden album cover come to life. Control wise, I'd sooner compare it to Virtua Fighter for it demands more precision than Street Fighter II. The music, 90% of the time, is fantastic. Heavy metal/industrial sound. The finishing moves are awesome! Just as over-the-top as Mortal Kombat, but with more of a sci-fi edge. Unlike Kasumi Ninja, you can't really 'jump kick' your way to success, excluding the final boss. He has no legs and jump-attacks are best served here....

Long and short, I'd say it's worth a try. I enjoy Kasumi Ninja in spite of its many - MANY - flaws, but Ultra Vortek is what I grab when I want a polished game with legitimate challenge. 

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