RetroPie Killed It For Me

[VectorGamer]

40 minutes ago, Jstick said:

There is something to be said for having a small curated library of physical books or games or albums or movies on a shelf.  Things that you love and cherish, that you revisit, that you put the effort into exploring simply because they are the few things that you own, that you picked.  That vinyl album that you bought when you had you had your first girlfriend, the game cart your dad gave you and stayed up to play with you, that favourite book you have read so many times the pages are worn from your fingers.  The artwork, the lyrics sheet, the shape, form, smell and feel of it... older game hardware and electronics have some interesting and beautiful design.

 

Digital media has no history, no tactile quality, no emotion imbued into it.  Just cold bits on a storage device, infinitely copyable and deletable. Amazing from a preservation and access point of view (would have been mind-blowing to my younger self). But in reality, the amount of choice and lack of tangibility are a bit of a curse.  

 

I have no attachment to that stuff. In my basement I have shelves for DVDs (which I ripped and uploaded to my media server), VHS tapes (that I'll probably never watch even though I invested in a new VHS/DVD player a couple of years ago), record albums (that I'll never play), books (that I'll never read again) and video game cartridges and consoles (fell out of favor due to RetroPie). All that stuff just sits around and takes up space. I'm looking forward to selling all that stuff and putting something useful in that space like a couple of pinball machines.

[John Stamos Mullet]

2 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

Yep. And Arcadepunks uses some sketchy download sites. Can't argue with the quantity of stuff they put out, though. 

 

For those who may not know: remember that you can always repartition a small image to get more space on a larger card, if that's something that's needed. GPARTED is an easy to use partition editor that runs in Linux. I boot the "live CD" ISO into a virtual machine for easy access to this utility from Windows or Mac OS, but you can boot a real-hardware machine from this as well. https://gparted.org/livecd.php

Arcadepunks is terrible. Most of their hosted images are hackjobs that take forever to boot and run like garbage. While it takes more time and effort - the best results can be had just downloading the official Retropie image from retropie.co.uk and setting it all up yourself. 

[Jstick]

56 minutes ago, VectorGamer said:

putting something useful in that space like a couple of pinball machines.

This I cannot argue with! ?

[John Stamos Mullet]

I'm guilty of both. I prefer emulation for my arcade cab, simply because owning genuine arcade cabs ranges from being an expensive and impractical pain in the ass to downright impossible (rare games)

 

yet - I also still have original hardware for my favorite consoles and carts to go with them. Mostly for nostalgia sake and sense memory. I have a recently purchased high quality vinyl record player and a few dozen vinyl albums (all my favs). 

 

But most of the time - I enjoy that same content in digital format because I can't drag my record player into the bedroom. I can't set up my consoles on 4 TVs at the same time like I can with Plex or Netflix or Spotify. But I can have a retropie in every room, because they are the size of my wallet, cost $30, and stream their roms from one central folder on my media server. Just like my movies, TV shows, etc. 

[+pboland]

3 hours ago, VectorGamer said:

All that stuff just sits around and takes up space. I'm looking forward to selling all that stuff and putting something useful in that space like a couple of pinball machines.

Have you considered pinball emulation?

 

Just imagine, get one virtual pinball machine and emulate every pinball machine you could want and it only takes up the room of one machine.

 

Now you would have a full emulation situation. ?

[VectorGamer]

28 minutes ago, pboland said:

Have you considered pinball emulation?

 

Just imagine, get one virtual pinball machine and emulate every pinball machine you could want and it only takes up the room of one machine.

 

Now you would have a full emulation situation. ?

I've tried it and it's terrible. They have one at a place called Pinball Gallery that I go to several times a year. Yuck. Gross.

 

I didn't mind playing Pinball Arcade on the Xbox 360 but it's just not close to the real deal. Scores were unrealistically high on Pinball Arcade but at least it was helpful in understanding the rules for a machine that I could use on the real deal. Another thing I found with Pinball Arcade is that it was difficult to see the playfield elements from different perspectives.

[+pboland]

1 hour ago, VectorGamer said:

I've tried it and it's terrible. They have one at a place called Pinball Gallery that I go to several times a year. Yuck. Gross.

 

I didn't mind playing Pinball Arcade on the Xbox 360 but it's just not close to the real deal. Scores were unrealistically high on Pinball Arcade but at least it was helpful in understanding the rules for a machine that I could use on the real deal. Another thing I found with Pinball Arcade is that it was difficult to see the playfield elements from different perspectives.

I had a feeling you were going to say something along those lines.

 

To some of us, that's how we feel about emulated arcade games.

 

I too thought emulation was all I needed, but like Jstick I found it lacking over time. Don't get me wrong I still use emulation, but I use it to make my own arcade machines. Basically because of what John Stamos Mullet stated:

4 hours ago, John Stamos Mullet said:

I'm guilty of both. I prefer emulation for my arcade cab, simply because owning genuine arcade cabs ranges from being an expensive and impractical pain in the ass to downright impossible (rare games)

Now I can have those arcade machines and not pay nearly as much and I still have the same feel of the original.

 

In the end, as long as you are happy with your gaming experience, then emulation is perfect. ?

[VectorGamer]

7 minutes ago, pboland said:

I had a feeling you were going to say something along those lines.

 

To some of us, that's how we feel about emulated arcade games.

 

 

Well there are arcade games where the experience takes a hit in emulation. EDOT, Video Pinball, Space Encounters, Sea Wolf are just some off the top of my head. I would still visit an arcade that has some of these games like Funspot or Pinball PA but I wouldn't spend my time playing games like Galaga that IMHO play just fine in emulation.

[Keatah]

Emulating pinball machines is entirely different than traditional videogames. And the difference begins right at the display technology. One uses a mechanical ball on a playfield, another uses pixels on a screen. Huge difference. You wouldn't want to emulate a baseball game, now, would you?

 

[Keatah]

 

7 hours ago, Jstick said:

 

In the end the title of this post is actually apt: “RetroPie Killed It For Me”.  For me what emulation killed was the special feeling of getting a new game and the excitement of playing it for weeks or months; when you have access to everything, nothing is special any longer.

 

(Horrible first-world problem, isn’t it?)

 

Thing is unlimited access doesn't mean you have to get everything and have it instantly available. While there are several thousand ROMS available for the VCS - which you can put into one directory - you don't have to. Trying to play them all is just like listening to social media noise.

 

Take some time and personalize your modern-day emulation experience. Create childhood fav folders. Curate your own sets instead of searching through "me-too" rompacks. Build-up your own hardware instead of chasing after the latest kickstarter. 

[Jstick]

5 hours ago, Keatah said:

 

 

Thing is unlimited access doesn't mean you have to get everything and have it instantly available. While there are several thousand ROMS available for the VCS - which you can put into one directory - you don't have to. Trying to play them all is just like listening to social media noise.

 

Take some time and personalize your modern-day emulation experience. Create childhood fav folders. Curate your own sets instead of searching through "me-too" rompacks. Build-up your own hardware instead of chasing after the latest kickstarter. 

 

Oh absolutely.  I must have spent several years now heavily curating a personal ROM collection, and I’m close to being done.  Problem is, even just taking the cream of the crop across all the systems I’m interested in, it still ends up being multiple lifetimes worth of games.  It’s really just too much, and starts to feel like a buffet vs a nice, intimate restaurant in terms of experience.

 

These days, spending time with my 2600 is just about the only thing that gives me those true gaming vibes I miss (which would sound insane to my 10 year old self, considering the 40 years worth of gaming history available at my fingertips.).  An arcade cabinet or pinball table will do it too of course, but those are unfortunately not very practical for me right now ?

 

 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Jstick

[Omega-TI]

21 hours ago, Jstick said:

For me what emulation killed was the special feeling of getting a new game and the excitement of playing it for weeks or months; when you have access to everything, nothing is special any longer.

So true.  For me it's the nostalgia aspect, as in replaying an old game from years ago.  I have little desire to emulate anything I never had first-hand experience with.  Recently some age related changes have forced me down another path and emulation is the answer.  I'll still stick with Real Iron for my TI-99/4A and 5200 though.

[+pboland]

15 hours ago, Keatah said:

Emulating pinball machines is entirely different than traditional videogames. And the difference begins right at the display technology. One uses a mechanical ball on a playfield, another uses pixels on a screen. Huge difference. You wouldn't want to emulate a baseball game, now, would you?

 

It really comes down to personal taste. That's why I stated this:

 

15 hours ago, pboland said:

In the end, as long as you are happy with your gaming experience, then emulation is perfect.

Emulating pinball is a different animal, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. I can image using AR or VR to better emulate a pinball machine. Of course there will still be people who will say "It's not the same thing". And on some level that's true, no matter if you are emulating video game machines or pinball. It comes down to what is an acceptable version of the real thing.

 

In the case of an arcade game, if you don't care about the cabinet orientation, marquee, controls, CRT glow (think vector games) and background sound, then yep emulation is all you will ever need.

 

As to emulating a baseball game, it's not going to stop people from trying. Video games have tried to make you feel as if you are in a baseball game years (yes, I'm playing fast and loose with the term "emulation"). Heck, even pinball machines back in the day tried the whole baseball thing (again, not exactly emulation, but the idea is the same).

 

Is a Kia the same as a Corvette? Grant it the Kia is not trying to be a Corvette, but using the same logic as emulation it should be close enough. I mean 4 wheels, motor, the mechanic of driving is the same and yet some prefer the Corvette over a Kia still.

 

 

[Flojomojo]

Like these!

https://superimpulse.com/boardwalk-arcade/

 

Spoiler

Looks wretched

 

[VectorGamer]

2 hours ago, pboland said:

It really comes down to personal taste.

 

 

Yeah and we can sit here and go back n forth on this. Some people don't like emulating arcade games and some people don't like emulating pinball. Move on.

 

My point with this thread is that IMO RetroPie is good enough for me that I can get rid of all my retrogaming hardware and software and free up space. It's also killed any interest I might have had in any future retrogaming projects.

 

And look at all the money people are wasting on these minis and flashbacks that keep coming out. What a cash grab that shit is.

[Flojomojo]

24 minutes ago, VectorGamer said:

And look at all the money people are wasting on these minis and flashbacks that keep coming out. What a cash grab that shit is.

Believe me, I understand where you're coming from. But the FPGA stuff from Analogue is so well done, and the Nintendo minis are so cute!!

 

It's all toys and games in the end, it's nothing to get bent about. So long as folks are buying, they'll be selling. The latest trend is replica arcade games. They don't make any sense, but they make people happy, and that's nice. 

[VectorGamer]

2 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:

It's all toys and games in the end, it's nothing to get bent about. So long as folks are buying, they'll be selling.

No I just don't understand why this community which is largely made up of gamers that have the original hardware are getting a hard-on for this stuff.

[Flojomojo]

Because it's cute (including original-feel controls), easy, and cheap. 

 

There's also something to be said for legal licensing, too. 

[+wongojack]

I resisted the NES and SNES mini, but I'll say that I didn't even want the C64 mini or PlayStation Classic and yet somehow I now own both.  One was so discounted I couldn't resist and the other was given to me as a gift. 

 

They are both really "cute."

[Keatah]

7 hours ago, --- Ω --- said:

So true.  For me it's the nostalgia aspect, as in replaying an old game from years ago.  I have little desire to emulate anything I never had first-hand experience with.  Recently some age related changes have forced me down another path and emulation is the answer.  I'll still stick with Real Iron for my TI-99/4A and 5200 though.

 

That is indeed a factor. One I never got around to discussing in one of my many rants. I had an Amiga 500/1000 at one time. So emulating that is cool. Takes you back and all that. I never had a GVP 68030 28MHz accelerator for it though. So emulating that add-on is a meh-like experience. Nice to compare the performance gains and all. But to develop a nostalgic affection for a GVP via emulation? Not really.

 

On the other hand, I never owned a Genesis. But I do remember playing Columns on Genecyst back in 1997. First Genesis game I ever played IIRC. I have no nostalgic desire to immerse myself in the essence of the original hardware. But I do have nostalgia for the style and ambiance and flavor of Genesis games because of that experience. And I hope to have some spare time to enjoy more of what that ecosphere has to offer.

 

So there's that. 2 contradictory experiences. It may be because the GVP is a "thankless" bit of utilitarian hardware buried inside a machine vs a colorful happy videogame console bristling with marketing and characters like Sonic and a cultural/retail presence. Simple popularity. You want the Corvette experience, not the Corvette's water pump experience.

 

In short I do have nostalgia for the Genesis despite never having owned one. Thanks to having played it decades ago via emulation.

 

---

 

Keeping a coupla 2-3 real original hardware platforms and picking up the rest with emulation is a road many folks are going down these days.

 

7 hours ago, pboland said:

In the case of an arcade game, if you don't care about the cabinet orientation, marquee, controls, CRT glow (think vector games) and background sound, then yep emulation is all you will ever need.

Speaking practically and realistically *I* don't personally care about most of those items. The few that I do can be recreated at home has desired. So emulation fits my gaming needs quite nicely.

 

7 hours ago, pboland said:

As to emulating a baseball game, it's not going to stop people from trying. Video games have tried to make you feel as if you are in a baseball game years (yes, I'm playing fast and loose with the term "emulation"). Heck, even pinball machines back in the day tried the whole baseball thing (again, not exactly emulation, but the idea is the same).

 

 

Videogames recreated by emulation are a good thing. The circuit board (emulated or real) is outputting the same signals to the same type of display device, a CRT or LCD.

 

Baseball games emulated by pinball or videogame console are radically different. The translation across the display method is too far to cross. Not unless you're doing perhaps 8K VR at 260FPS.

 

Emulating Defender is easy to do accurately because the display techniques are the same.

 

Quote

Is a Kia the same as a Corvette? Grant it the Kia is not trying to be a Corvette, but using the same logic as emulation it should be close enough. I mean 4 wheels, motor, the mechanic of driving is the same and yet some prefer the Corvette over a Kia still.

 

It is not. The same logic shouldn't be used here. Corvette vs Kia are 2 different products serving 2 vastly different markets. Can't equalize both markets on paper. But you can use the same CAD tools to make a Corvette as you would a KIA.

 

Your "Corvette emulator" would need to exhibit different characteristics than your "KIA emulator" does.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Keatah

[Keatah]

5 hours ago, VectorGamer said:

No I just don't understand why this community which is largely made up of gamers that have the original hardware are getting a hard-on for this stuff.

 

Understanding is easy. The demographic that buys the stuff isn't known for making sound financial decisions. Just ask their ex.

[Flojomojo]

3 hours ago, Keatah said:

...shouldn't be used here. Corvette vs Kia are 2 different products serving 2 vastly different markets. Can't equalize both markets on paper. But you can use the same CAD tools to make a Corvette as you would a KIA.

 

Your "Corvette emulator" would need to exhibit different characteristics than your "KIA emulator" does.

Yeah, that's an unfair analogy, like saying "Alien Invaders Plus!" on Odyssey 2 is equal to Space Invaders on Atari 2600. 

 

A better Corvette emulator would be a little roadster like a Mazda MX5 or Subaru BRZ. 

[John Stamos Mullet]

10 hours ago, pboland said:

 

 

In the case of an arcade game, if you don't care about the cabinet orientation, marquee, controls, CRT glow (think vector games) and background sound, then yep emulation is all you will ever need.

 

 

 

That's the thing though - these things can be very accurately emulated, or entirely replicated as new, for a fraction of the cost of attempting to obtain and upkeep an original 80's arcade cabinet or two.

 

my Arcade1up cab has an ergonomically accurate control panel layout, upgraded arcade quality controls, backlit marquee, and as for background sound - a MAME screensaver swapping out various games attract mode on my second cab, combined with pretty much any 80's hits Spotify channel or Apple Music collection - and you're in business.

 

The one thing emulation has trouble with is the vector game glow/brightness variance - but the trade off of not needing to maintain and lug around a 200lb CRT seems like a pretty fair trade off. 

[adamchevy]

Yeah and we can sit here and go back n forth on this. Some people don't like emulating arcade games and some people don't like emulating pinball. Move on.  

My point with this thread is that IMO RetroPie is good enough for me that I can get rid of all my retrogaming hardware and software and free up space. It's also killed any interest I might have had in any future retrogaming projects.

 

And look at all the money people are wasting on these minis and flashbacks that keep coming out. What a cash grab that shit is.

 

 

They could be wasting their money on real hardware like me! I know I have a problem. That’s why I came back to the AA forums. Sorry to post real hardware in an emulation topic.

 

 

[Omega-TI]

It's always been, "Whatever does it for you."  Some people like one thing now, but can change later as income or living conditions change.  I've dumped a ton of money into my TI obsession, but even that is miniscule compared to what others have dumped into the hobby.  I prefer Real Iron for my TI stuff, but on occasion still use the emulator for fast and dirty testing.  Same with the Atari 5200, I had to have the real thing.   As for the Maggotbox O2, it's been in a closet for years now and I don't even want to emulate it.

 

Now when it comes to the TRS-80, would I have "liked" one, hell yes.  Could I have "justified" one, hell no.  I don't have the space and because of other current situations, can't dump the money into an overpriced system which would require even more money to bring up to my standards.  So $5.00 on a emulator with some programs to stick into a RPi gives me the functionality for nostalgia's sake, but much better video quality.

 

So, I sit firmly on the fence!