Editing existing Atari games

[overgrouth]

So I was wondering if anyone could help me learn a thing or two so I can make existing games a shade harder say like paddle games faster or indie 500 drive faster. I like fast things and I just bought a hack of Kaboom! called Sadoom! or also known as Kaboom! 9 and I would love to make something simillar such as turning fast food into faster food.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

You bought Sadoom! (which I made)? From whom? 

The changes you describe usually need a good understanding of the code. Often you have to disassemble the original to be able to make the necessary fixes.

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by Thomas Jentzsch

[overgrouth]

9 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

You bought Sadoom! (which I made)? From whom? 

The changes you describe usually need a good understanding of the code. Often you have to disassemble the original to be able to make the necessary fixes.

 

I got it from Albert https://atariage.com/forums/profile/3-albert/

 

If you recall I know you made it since I asked if I can buy a copy and you gave me permission and if you like I can bring up the PM of us having the discussion. Such a discussion I showed to Albert.

 

You also told me if it was to easy you could make it harder. - Yes please can you get creative? Willing to pay.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

42 minutes ago, overgrouth said:

I got it from Albert https://atariage.com/forums/profile/3-albert/

 

If you recall I know you made it since I asked if I can buy a copy and you gave me permission and if you like I can bring up the PM of us having the discussion. Such a discussion I showed to Albert.

Ah, I did not remember. That's perfectly fine then.

 

Quote

You also told me if it was to easy you could make it harder. - Yes please can you get creative? Willing to pay.

I am not here for the money. But I can check when I find the time.

[overgrouth]

Awesome! Take your time would be cool to have the same amount of levels as normal Kaboom! Except start off at level 5 which would go to level 12 but knowing the Atari that might be to much for it to handle providing you were able to make it.

[davyK]

Wait - Sadoom could be harder? I suppose there is a theoretical limit to how hard you can make it while still being possible.

 

Would be interesting to know if making harder would be a case of making the bombs skip scanlines to speed up or if it can be made faster and keeping the smoothness. I'm guessing that's connected with how long you wait between frames?

 

 

[overgrouth]

10 hours ago, davyK said:

Wait - Sadoom could be harder? I suppose there is a theoretical limit to how hard you can make it while still being possible.

 

Would be interesting to know if making harder would be a case of making the bombs skip scanlines to speed up or if it can be made faster and keeping the smoothness. I'm guessing that's connected with how long you wait between frames?

 

 

it would be interesting to push it to the limit to see what is too difficult for the system. Honestly the original game is a task for the Atari depending on which Atari your using. 4 switch consoles do not do so well. I think Kaboom 9 works because level 9 has less bombs on screen. You notice Kaboom! has 2 intervals with in the 8 levels. Level 1 skips bombs level 2 full drops level 3 skips level 4 full drops level 5 skips 6 full drops 7 skips 8 full drops and 9 skips thus less sprites have to be accounted for meaning level 10 is probably going to cause lag or some form of glitch but it would be something to test out and we all know more ram can be added to the Roms now which could eliminate any conflict, none the less it would be wonderful to see what the real Atari would do with this.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

On 9/14/2019 at 12:11 AM, davyK said:

Wait - Sadoom could be harder? I suppose there is a theoretical limit to how hard you can make it while still being possible.

Sure. Stay tuned...

On 9/14/2019 at 12:11 AM, davyK said:

Would be interesting to know if making harder would be a case of making the bombs skip scanlines to speed up or if it can be made faster and keeping the smoothness. I'm guessing that's connected with how long you wait between frames?

The difficulty is coming from the bomber's movement speed and how fast the bombs fall. This can be speed up quite a lot.

[Spector]

Another paddle game that could really do with editing is Super Breakout. The paddle control is way too sensitive, and turning it just 50 degrees or so moves the bat from one end of the screen to the other. What this means is that if your paddle has slight jitter, you cant play it. There should be a version where you have to turn the paddle just about the whole way round to get the bat moving from one end to another, as that would reduce the effects of jitter. Probably nobody understands what I mean by that though. 

[davyK]

6 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Sure. Stay tuned...

The difficulty is coming from the bomber's movement speed and how fast the bombs fall. This can be speed up quite a lot.

There is scope for a rote learning challenge mode then. With a selection of set patterns falling at max speed to test out those real hardcore twitch people. Would be almost like the top end rhythm action genre games such as Beatmania etc.

[davyK]

3 hours ago, Spector said:

Another paddle game that could really do with editing is Super Breakout. The paddle control is way too sensitive, and turning it just 50 degrees or so moves the bat from one end of the screen to the other. What this means is that if your paddle has slight jitter, you cant play it. There should be a version where you have to turn the paddle just about the whole way round to get the bat moving from one end to another, as that would reduce the effects of jitter. Probably nobody understands what I mean by that though. 

I get what you mean but Super Breakout gets really tough; esp in progressive mode, and the sensitivity might be needed?

[Spector]

1 hour ago, davyK said:

I get what you mean but Super Breakout gets really tough; esp in progressive mode, and the sensitivity might be needed?

It's needed but surely not to the degree you only use about a quarter of the paddle's turning capability. The less you need to turn it, the more jitter is amplified. If you played arkanoid in the arcade with the disc controller, for example, I'm sure it needs to be turned more than that. 

[davyK]

I suppose. It probably comes down to personal preferences.  I wonder if it's a hard thing to change? I'm guessing it's the horizontal delta when a paddle move is detected. Might be an easy one to do....could be just a matter of changing one byte. Trick is finding it. :)

 

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Here is a new version of "Sadoom!", by tradition now called "Sadoom!+".

 

Changes:

• different wave speeds, starting at original game's wave 7 and going far beyond the original Sadoom!'s speed
• starting with 100 bombs/wave, increasing by 10 each wave
• fire button restarts a game when all buckets are lost
• two player mode fixed
• a few minor graphic tweaks
• attract mode removed (needed the bytes)

Sadoom!+.bin

Edited September 23, 2019 by Thomas Jentzsch

[overgrouth]

I was so happy me and Thomas Jentsch could work on this together. I did not really do any of the actual work in my opinion however he told me he could not test any form of update and I could. I was to stupid to realize on his end it was not a hardware problem even though that is actually what I thought it was. Turns out it was a bit more obvious as I should be wearing the kind of dunce hats as I was oblivious to the fact Thomas did not have the skill to test any of the various changes he had made. After several attempts to make it better and a small bug we had something that worked after a good Joke in between we ended up with something that had a pattern to it making it all to easy even in ludicrous speeed. I had a bad idea on how to fix the issue and Thomas had a good idea and implemented the idea. The randomness at such speed was a bit much for me to start off with. I needed a few steps easier (SLOWER) and worn my way into the land of difficult measures rather then being plunged into it. I can start at Bomb Wave 9 just like original Sadoom! however with it being even more random then the original Sadoom! I was reaching beyond my limit so Thomas dropped it down to Wave 7 and it goes like this

Game Starts at wave 7 (up to 25 :)) (I have only hit Wave 11 once and it was absolutely INSANE!) Any one who can pass wave 11 would have to be a gaming god let alone anything above it)

the number of bombs starts at 100 and increases by 10 for each wave (up to 255)

after you lost all buckets, you can restart with the fire button (Note it can still normally reset which might be preferred due to the paddle is are gone visually in game after you lost all buckets, however they are back on screen as soon as you press the button so if you knew where your buckets last were or if your good like me the benefit of not having to reach for your gaming system is awesome.

 

I hope others can enjoy this hack. I find it fun and will be making a promotional video. You know kinda like a infomercial

 

Introducing the next generation of hack for the Atari

Sadoom!+

The game is more exciting

More challenging

a bit more levels (if you can get there)

A bit more fun

a bit more harder

A bit more faster

A bit more...annoying than the rest

A bit more BOOM!

First there was Kaboom!

Then there was Sadoom!

And now there is Sadoom!+

Only on the Atari if you have the courage to play it

 

[davyK]

Will have to give this try.

[+wongojack]

On 9/23/2019 at 3:32 AM, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Here is a new version of "Sadoom!", by tradition now called "Sadoom!+".

 

Changes:

• different wave speeds, starting at original game's wave 7 and going far beyond the original Sadoom!'s speed
• starting with 100 bombs/wave, increasing by 10 each wave
• fire button restarts a game when all buckets are lost
• two player mode fixed
• a few minor graphic tweaks
• attract mode removed (needed the bytes)

Sadoom!+.bin 2 kB · 29 downloads

I recently went looking for Kaboom! hacks and have REALLY enjoyed this one.  Does it have it's own thread somewhere? I couldn't find one.

 

Anyway, I think this game has even more potential.  Right now, I use it as a way to sort of "train" for regular Kaboom!, but it is great on its own.  Here are some ideas to make it even better:

 

1. To make the game more like a true training program, you could give us a game mode that starts at level 6 and does not advance past level 8.  It would let you practice more of what the actual game is like when going for a high score.  For me, when I am getting up above 20k or so, I spend time bouncing back and forth between level 7 and 8, but I also sometimes will intentionally drop down to level 6 with just one paddle to try and build my score back up before getting back to level 8.
2. When I am advancing past level 8, I could really use some "reserve buckets."  For speeds that fast, it would be really nice to have a few buckets in reserve that could keep me playing with 3 buckets even if I lose one.  I find that I can get into a groove on level 9 and clear it with 3 buckets, but losing 1 bucket on 10 means I need to attempt 9 with just two.  I'd see more of the faster levels if I could build up 3 to 5 reserve buckets.
3. Give us the option to play a "button reset" version the original game.  This is not really required, but it would save me from having to change carts when I want to go back to the original.

 

Thank you Thomas for this amazing hack.  I think that between this game and Kaboom! Deluxe we are now very lucky to have so many options.  Perhaps if the two were brought together we'd actually be able to say that a true sequel had been developed right here from our own community!  I bet Larry Kaplan would be proud.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Thanks.

At least of now, I have no further plans with Kaboom!. My ToDo list is already way too long.

[overgrouth]

I should have posted this long ago

 

Video of winner of the real cartridge and some good footage of the ganeplay

 

 

[davyK]

Forgot about this...Have downloaded and will give it a go over the weekend.

 

 

[overgrouth]

On 9/24/2021 at 1:58 PM, davyK said:

Forgot about this...Have downloaded and will give it a go over the weekend.

 

 

You try this yet?

[+ZeroPage Homebrew]

ZeroPage Homebrew is playing Sadoom!+ on tomorrow's (Tue Nov 2, 2021) stream LIVE on Twitch at 6PM PT | 9PM ET | 1AM GMT! Hope you can join us!

 

ZPH Twitch Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/zeropagehomebrew/

Games:

• Qix (2021 Exclusive World Premiere | 2600) by John Champeau @johnnywc, Nathan Strum @Nathan Strum (Graphics), Bob DeCrescenzo @PacManPlus (Sound)
• 1942 (2021 WIP | 2600) by @homerhomer & Wolfgang Stubig @Al_Nafuur, Pat Brady @Pat Brady (Sound)

After Dark:

• Sadoom!+ (2019 Hack of Kaboom | 2600) by Thomas Jentzsch @Thomas Jentzsch
• Kaboom! (1981 Activision Patch Attempt #2: ?/3000) by Larry Kaplan

 (WATCH AT 1080P60 FOR FULL QUALITY)

 

 

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

6 hours ago, ZeroPage Homebrew said:

ZeroPage Homebrew is playing the Sadoom!+...

I suppose this will set some new records.

Spoiler

Most resets per minute  

 

[+D Train]

7 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

I suppose this will set some new records.

but is it couch compliant?

 

[Thomas Jentzsch]

15 minutes ago, D Train said:

but is it couch compliant?

A game with such a name? ?