Undergrounders - new homebrew 3D action game

[VladR]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 12:20 AM, agradeneu said:

You don't need Geforce to get out decent detailed graphics of this HW. It was already done and proven.

Incorrect. You're confusing 'cute 3D' with 'detailed 3D relative to the HW's capabilities'.

 

There's no 'cute' looking 3D game on Lynx, or Jaguar and I'd argue not even in the massive catalog of PS1 (though many have tried).

 

You start getting some of the 'cute 3D' factor around PS2-era, but the resolution and polycount really had to be bumped up to 1280x720, to be safe - e.g. PS3/X360 era, which finally allowed complex curved 3D meshes that were, indeed, cute.

 

 

In contrast, in 2D pixel art, you don't need high resolution and high polycount for bitmap to be cute. Lynx's resolution and color depth is just fine for that.

[+Stephen]

Cool work VladR.  I am interested to see this ported over to both the stock XL, and the Eclaire using the overclocked ANTIC modes.

[solo/ng]

Atari800 cpu is not 1.79Mhz - unless ANTIC is disabled

 

@Stephen - it doesnt have any kind of rotations (camera/objects)

[phoenixdownita]

I played it on the linked website, does the speed on real HW matches?

If it does it's in dare need of a hell of a speed up, the way it is now is very very boring.

 

Color-wise is ... weird, the "harlequin road" is not to my taste, also I would avoid using a color for the road that matches any of the "gradient" in the background, the final result is just not right.

 

The spew of tech numbers did not really translate into something that playable somehow:

 

- 25 levels

- 22 different color settings (track, sky, land)

- Four 3D meshes of enemies

- Five 3D meshes for tracks

- Sound effects for shooting/HUD (works in emulator)

- 5 types of curves and 2 types of hills [semi] randomly merged together to create 25 tracks

- Basic RPG stats: Level, HP, Experience, Damage, Armor

- Randomized Procedural generation of Enemy Placement (based on Player's level)

 

Maybe at higher speed it would result in a different experience but as it stands most of it is barely noticeable, the game is too sparse and too slow imho, I swear I had a 25 sec straight with nothing at all to do.

 

I played until I level up to 7, I think at that point I was in track 5 I think .... didn't feel I wanted to play any longer, I just wasn't engaged, the only element of curiosity was in the shape of the road, btw in the totally flat one it appears to run smoother (at least on the website).

 

Also the end of a level is so abrupt, 3 times it happened to be as an enemy was approaching .... hopefully the engine is reusable and the speed can be fixed (maybe on the Jag or such) will see.

 

At the same time congrats for meeting the deadline with something tangible, accomplishing something is worth of praise, for that alone you got my respect whether I liked the end product or not.

 

 

[agradeneu]

17 hours ago, VladR said:

Incorrect. You're confusing 'cute 3D' with 'detailed 3D relative to the HW's capabilities'.

 

There's no 'cute' looking 3D game on Lynx, or Jaguar and I'd argue not even in the massive catalog of PS1 (though many have tried).

 

You start getting some of the 'cute 3D' factor around PS2-era, but the resolution and polycount really had to be bumped up to 1280x720, to be safe - e.g. PS3/X360 era, which finally allowed complex curved 3D meshes that were, indeed, cute.

 

 

In contrast, in 2D pixel art, you don't need high resolution and high polycount for bitmap to be cute. Lynx's resolution and color depth is just fine for that.

Quite the opposite is true - during PS1 and PS2 era cartoony 3D platformers like Spyro or Crash Bandicoot were staples of their libraries and very popular. Naughty Dog explained this because they could do convincing cartoon characters with even very low poly models. With PS3 then it became possible to do realistic, life like character models with skin shaders etc.  - hence their games matured to serious themes like "The Last of Us" and cinematics with real actors. Quite irrelevant for the Lynx though, but it was not me who started to compare a 1989 handheld system with modern 3D chips for desktop PC.;-)

Edited September 17, 2019 by agradeneu

[VladR]

On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 6:54 AM, agradeneu said:

Quite the opposite is true - during PS1 and PS2 era cartoony 3D platformers like Spyro or Crash Bandicoot were staples of their libraries and very popular. Naughty Dog explained this because they could do convincing cartoon characters with even very low poly models. With PS3 then it became possible to do realistic, life like character models with skin shaders etc.  - hence their games matured to serious themes like "The Last of Us" and cinematics with real actors. Quite irrelevant for the Lynx though, but it was not me who started to compare a 1989 handheld system with modern 3D chips for desktop PC.;-)

I'm sorry, did I ever accidentally portrait myself as a console player ? Only select few things could insult me deeper than being thrown into that category. I've had years where I upgraded whole PC three times (within 12 months).

 

So, what you're saying is that just because it was 'popular' and sold millions of units, it must have been 'cute' ? For console players, sure, as they didn't know any better. And those that did, kept denying, of course

 

When Crash Bandicoot was released - ~1997, I bought a 3DFX card to my PC. That was one of the very few transformative experiences in PC gaming history - basically pre-3DFX era and post-3DFX era.

 

I played Crash around the time of release, on a friend's imported PS1. Even at that time, it was extremely pixelated and low-res. There was a fun factor, sure, but it was undoubtedly pixelated & ugly, as 3DFX was actual next-gen and to me rendered whole PS1 library visually disturbing and unplayable without larger quantities of alcohol.

But then, if we're talking about gaming while impaired, networking PCs and playing multiplayer when drunk in dorm was waaay more fun than PS1.

 

 

 

Of course, if you haven't been exposed to a hi-end PC rig, you might have considered Crash 'cute', and that's fine. Good for you that you enjoyed last-gen as current-gen instead of next-gen. The power of marketing - but hey - "it was cheaper and you didn't have to configure anything", just insert disc&play, right

 

About a year later, in 1998 I played Unreal 1 and NFS3 on PC with 3DFX. Contrast that to Crash on PS1, which not only looked pixelated&ugly, but comparatively was upgraded to ridiculous, as you're stuck with same unupgradeable HW forever. It's like comparing Atari 2600 vs Jaguar, visually. But, hey - there's still gameplay
 

 

The good old times when those bloody consoles didn't pollute the PC gaming. It was an incredible fun while it lasted...

[agradeneu]

59 minutes ago, VladR said:

I'm sorry, did I ever accidentally portrait myself as a console player ? Only select few things could insult me deeper than being thrown into that category. I've had years where I upgraded whole PC three times (within 12 months).

 

So, what you're saying is that just because it was 'popular' and sold millions of units, it must have been 'cute' ? For console players, sure, as they didn't know any better. And those that did, kept denying, of course

 

When Crash Bandicoot was released - ~1997, I bought a 3DFX card to my PC. That was one of the very few transformative experiences in PC gaming history - basically pre-3DFX era and post-3DFX era.

 

I played Crash around the time of release, on a friend's imported PS1. Even at that time, it was extremely pixelated and low-res. There was a fun factor, sure, but it was undoubtedly pixelated & ugly, as 3DFX was actual next-gen and to me rendered whole PS1 library visually disturbing and unplayable without larger quantities of alcohol.

But then, if we're talking about gaming while impaired, networking PCs and playing multiplayer when drunk in dorm was waaay more fun than PS1.

 

 

 

Of course, if you haven't been exposed to a hi-end PC rig, you might have considered Crash 'cute', and that's fine. Good for you that you enjoyed last-gen as current-gen instead of next-gen. The power of marketing - but hey - "it was cheaper and you didn't have to configure anything", just insert disc&play, right

 

About a year later, in 1998 I played Unreal 1 and NFS3 on PC with 3DFX. Contrast that to Crash on PS1, which not only looked pixelated&ugly, but comparatively was upgraded to ridiculous, as you're stuck with same unupgradeable HW forever. It's like comparing Atari 2600 vs Jaguar, visually. But, hey - there's still gameplay
 

 

The good old times when those bloody consoles didn't pollute the PC gaming. It was an incredible fun while it lasted...

No but do you actually try to portray your ignorance as some kind of virtue as part of an illusory superioty complex??  Not sure who you try to fool but you appearently know sh*t about 3D graphics and art direction AT ALL.

The acclaimed Rayman 2 for Dreamcast, N64 and PC was very low poly count and a cute 3D platfomer, like Pandemonium, Mario 64, Bad Conker, Croc, Banjoo Kazooie and many many more. Early 3DFX cards mostly enhanced texture quality and resolution but not polygon counts so much.  However your claims were that "cute" games would need high poly counts which is utterly NONSENSE. A cute game is a matter of art direction, comic style graphics don't need high poly count which is why there were that popular with early 3D tech. Case closed, good bye ?

Edited September 19, 2019 by agradeneu

[VladR]

1 hour ago, agradeneu said:

No but do you actually try to portray your ignorance as some kind of virtue as part of an illusory superioty complex??  Not sure who you try to fool but you appearently know f*ck about 3D graphics and art direction AT ALL.

The acclaimed Rayman 2 for Dreamcast, N64 and PC was very low poly count and a cute 3D platfomer, like Pandemonium, Mario 64, Bad Conker, Croc, Banjoo Kazooie and many many more. Early 3DFX cards mostly enhanced texture quality and resolution but not polygon counts so much.  However your claims were that "cute" games would need high poly counts which is utterly NONSENSE. A cute game is a matter of art direction, comic style graphics don't need high poly count which is why there were that popular with early 3D tech. Case closed, good bye ?

Virtue ? How would you know if you don't have the experience ?

 

So funny. The arguments of hardcore console players haven't changed in ~quarter century - it's 1996 all over again

 

Undeniably, there's a reason why Sony marketing worked so well.

 

 

 

I have played both on the bleeding edge, constantly upgraded PC and PS1 at the same time. Have you at that time ? If not, then you don't know what I'm talking about.

[miker]

So any chances for updated binary... or is it final version?

[VladR]

6 hours ago, miker said:

So any chances for updated binary... or is it final version?

For now, it is.

 

To be willing to put it on cart, I must have a different audio driver(4-5 days) , fix the failed import of 3D assets and spend at least another 4-5 days on gameplay.

 

That's around 15 days of work. Not happening for PRGE for sure

 

I did, however, spent about 5 days on my inlined C-style language 6502 compiler and while short-term there's no benefit, long-term it's going to be more productive for Lynx.

 

Assuming I create enough 3D art assets for my jag game, I may be able to to find 3 days to at least have nicer 3D meshes in the Lynx build for PRGE. Chance of that happening is about 50% now.