Ultimate Cart vs. SDrive-MAX for Atari XEGS?

[+sixersfan105]

So I've been a "real hardware + real cartridges" Atari guy for several years now and have a solid collection, but am thinking of diving into the emulation world with an SD cart or SIO-type SDrive to pair with my XEGS (stock 64K with no plans to mod). I've already looked over the "Topic for Newbies" pinned thread and associated links and charts which are very helpful, and those resources have helped me whittle down my options to two devices: the Ultimate Cart and the SDrive-MAX. The main draw to the SDrive for me is that it can load ATX, ATR and CAS files, as there are certainly games out there that aren't in XEX/CAR/ROM/BIN format, the latter four being the extent of the Ultimate Cart's compatibility. Another one of the SDrive-MAX's strengths, the ability to write ATR files, does not interest me, as I do not currently have a 1050 and don't anticipate getting another or any disk drive in the future.

 

That said, my typical setup for my XEGS is sans keyboard. Does the SDrive-MAX let you navigate the menus with a joystick, or is it keyboard-only plus, of course, the LCD screen of the device itself? Also, are the load-times of CAS and ATR files faster than their original media counterparts, or are you still playing the waiting game?

 

Any and all insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[Mr Robot]

You can't load car/rom/bin files on an SDrive-MAX

 

Ultimate cart = XEX/ROM/BIN/CAR

SDrive-Max = XEX/ATR/ATX/CAS

 

More games were released on ATR/CAS than on CAR/BIN but almost all of them have been converted to XEX by now. 

 

Ultimate cart will be faster, SDrive-Max can play Alternate Reality.

 

You should also look at AVG Cart. Everything the Ultimate cart does + much more, half the price, not open source.

 

From the perspective of not having a keyboard plugged in and wanting joystick control and simplicity... I'd get an AVG Cart or an Ultimate.

[+sixersfan105]

Thanks for the clarification and advice. Ultimate seems to be more polished while AVG seems to be evolving, with features like joystick navigation added just a few months back. Pros and cons, I suppose! I'm guessing the best way to go about an AVG purchase is by PMing tmp?

[flashjazzcat]

AVG has SIDE emulation, which is killer, especially if you have or intend to purchase Ultimate 1MB.

[+Philsan]

1 hour ago, sixersfan105 said:

Ultimate seems to be more polished while AVG seems to be evolving, with features like joystick navigation added just a few months back. Pros and cons, I suppose! I'm guessing the best way to go about an AVG purchase is by PMing tmp?

What do you mean with "more polished"?

AVGCart has a nice search function, a (limited) ATR compatibility and Side2 emulation.

 

But first of all you should know what kind of files do you need to load.

Multicarts have fast/instant load and load big CAR games that otherwise in XEX format need memory expansions.

SIO devices load near all games but slowly (in any case faster than original devices).

 

I would use two devices: a multicart + a SIO device (for software not compatible with multicart only).

 

I have a PC near my Atari and I like to have all software centralized, for emulator and real machine.

I have a memory expansion too.

Therefore I mainly use SIO2PC-USB.

 

This is my 4000th post! ? ? ?

[Mr Robot]

54 minutes ago, sixersfan105 said:

Ultimate seems to be more polished while AVG seems to be evolving, with features like joystick navigation added just a few months back

The reason it looks like that is because the Ultimate cart is NOT evolving. It was released with a base set of features; XEX loading was added; It hasn't been updated since. AVG cart is constantly evolving and introducing new functionality, it started at about the same level as Ultimate and has been updated regularly ever since, @tmp is something of a coding monster and he's been getting input from people like @flashjazzcat.

 

Yes you have to PM @tmp if you want to buy one. 

[+sixersfan105]

11 minutes ago, Philsan said:

What do you mean with "more polished"?

AVGCart has a nice search function, a (limited) ATR compatibility and Side2 emulation.

 

But first of all you should know what kind of files do you need to load.

Multicarts have fast/instant load and load big CAR games that otherwise in XEX format need memory expansions.

SIO devices load near all games but slowly (in any case faster than original devices).

 

I would use two devices: a multicart + a SIO device (for software not compatible with multicart only).

 

I have a PC near my Atari and I like to have all software centralized, for emulator and real machine.

I have a memory expansion too.

Therefore I mainly use SIO2PC-USB.

 

This is my 4000th post! ?

By Ultimate seeming more polished I mean it appears to have a "prettier" menu function, had joystick support from the beginning - stuff like that. Thanks for all of the other info, too. 

 

13 minutes ago, Mr Robot said:

The reason it looks like that is because the Ultimate cart is NOT evolving. It was released with a base set of features; XEX loading was added; It hasn't been updated since. AVG cart is constantly evolving and introducing new functionality, it started at about the same level as Ultimate and has been updated regularly ever since, @tmp is something of a coding monster and he's been getting input from people like @flashjazzcat.

 

Yes you have to PM @tmp if you want to buy one. 

Fair points! Thanks. 

[Mr Robot]

53 minutes ago, sixersfan105 said:

By Ultimate seeming more polished I mean it appears to have a "prettier" menu function, had joystick support from the beginning - stuff like that

The Ultimate menu was written by @flashjazzcat to a spec by @electrotrains. When @tmp wrote his menu he decided he didn't want to 'waste' the top 2-3 lines of files with a logo etc. and just went with a utilitarian menu, that's a design decision not a lack of sophistication. Niceties like the joystick controls were added after he was happy with the core functionality.

[+sixersfan105]

Very interesting stuff; thanks, @Mr Robot! And I suppose it's Mac-friendly, since it's basically just loading files onto an SD card, right?

[Mr Robot]

Yup, works fine with a mac. Don't forget to use something like dot_clean on the SD card before you eject it to clear out all the junk that Apple dumps everywhere. Should probably clear out any Windows thumbs.db files too.

 

I have both carts and I think they are both great but the Ultimate is under supported and there doesn't appear to be anyone with the skills to adopt it and make improvements.

[Gavin1968]

6 hours ago, sixersfan105 said:

SD cart or SIO-type SDrive to pair with my XEGS

I have a couple of people who have gotten my SDrive-MAX and use them on XEGS and are very happy with the results. 

 

[Machine]

I hope Sixersfan is ok with me piggy-backing on his thread.....

I just got an XEGS, and I tried to make heads or tails of this thread. Unfortunately, I am lost.

I know absollutely NOTHING about what is available for options.....

All I want is a good Multicart I can load roms on and play on the XE.

What is the best bet? Easy to load, easy to play.

 

 

 

 

[Mr Robot]

5 minutes ago, Machine said:

All I want is a good Multicart I can load roms on and play on the XE.

UNO Cart, Ultimate Cart or AVG Cart will all work for you. I'd get the AVG Cart 

[Machine]

Thanks Mr. Robot. Is there any reason to get the Ultimate Cart over the UNO Cart? I will only be using it on the XE, so looks like I am ok with UNO, unless the Ultimate runs better/fast or something?

[+sixersfan105]

@Machine definitely check out the below thread if you haven't already. It's @Philsan's handiwork, complete with a chart and everything comparing all of the different options. 

 

 

[Mr Robot]

11 hours ago, Machine said:

Thanks Mr. Robot. Is there any reason to get the Ultimate Cart over the UNO Cart? I will only be using it on the XE, so looks like I am ok with UNO, unless the Ultimate runs better/fast or something?

The UNO is the baby brother of the Ultimate, it has a slower microcontroller (that you won't notice) and 128K of ram instead of the Ultimates 1MB which means you wont be able to load cart images over 128K, in practice that just means that you wont be able to use the UNO to run Maxflash 8mb cart images.

 

The Ultimate is bigger and more powerful but nobody has done anything to tap that power yet. The AVG is about the same as the Ultimate and @tmp is using the extra power to do cool stuff.

 

[Machine]

OK. I just ordered the UNO. It looks like it should do everything I need.

Thanks Mr Robot & sixersfan for the help!

[Kyle22]

I love my Ultimate cart with a Toshiba FlashAir SD WiFi card in it.

There is a bookmark in my browser (New Moon) for Atari800.

I can easily upload files to the cart from my Windows machine.

 

 

[SS]

On 9/13/2019 at 7:08 PM, Philsan said:

I would use two devices: a multicart + a SIO device (for software not compatible with multicart only).

I started out with a multi-cart (a UNO).  It does most everything that I would want from a flash-card device for my Atari and I really have no complaints about it at all.  However, having had entirely floppy disk based software when I was a kid, I found myself missing the experience that a SIO device brings (like the loading "beeps" of an Atari drive).  So I bought myself a SIO2SD and a SDrive-MAX after that.  I honestly now wouldn't want to be without either type of device.  

 

BTW, the UNO is dependent on the keyboard to navigate the menu. If you use an XEGS without a keyboard regularly hooked up to it, the UNO isn't for you.

[+Philsan]

15 hours ago, Mr Robot said:

The UNO is the baby brother of the Ultimate, it has a slower microcontroller (that you won't notice) and 128K of ram instead of the Ultimates 1MB which means you wont be able to load cart images over 128K, in practice that just means that you wont be able to use the UNO to run Maxflash 8mb cart images.

 

The Ultimate is bigger and more powerful but nobody has done anything to tap that power yet. The AVG is about the same as the Ultimate and @tmp is using the extra power to do cool stuff.

 

 

11 hours ago, Machine said:

OK. I just ordered the UNO. It looks like it should do everything I need.

Thanks Mr Robot & sixersfan for the help!

With UNO cart, if you don't have a memory expansion, you can't play Atari Blast!, Bomb Jake, Jim Slide XL, Midi Maze, Space Harrier.

Not many games but very nice.

 

And obviously many not compatible ATR only games (like all multicarts except for Ultimate 1MB - SIDE2 combo).

[+sixersfan105]

On 9/13/2019 at 5:44 PM, Mr Robot said:

You should also look at AVG Cart. Everything the Ultimate cart does + much more, half the price, not open source.

Just noticed on the AVGCart preorder thread in October of last year that you asked to be taken off the AVGCart preorder list because you were tired of waiting and went with an Ultimate Cart instead of loved it. I'm guessing that in the past year you've had a change of heart with the advances of the AVGCart and now prefer it to the Ultimate?

[Mr Robot]

28 minutes ago, sixersfan105 said:

Just noticed on the AVGCart preorder thread that you asked to be taken off the AVGCart preorder list because you were tired of waiting and went with an Ultimate Cart instead of loved it. I'm guessing that in the past year you've had a change of heart with the advances of the AVGCart and now prefer it to the Ultimate?

Yep. 

I got fed up waiting (little did I know than that the preorder thread isn't really a preorder thread and it won't get you added to a list, someone should delete it, at this point its more a troll post than a preorder list) so I got an Ultimate from The Brewing Academy. Then I watched the AVG get better and better so I messaged tmp and asked to be added to his list, he replied and said it would be a while, I said ok. Then I waited and fortune smiled when he gave me a cart for helping him design a new label for it. 

 

I now have the Ultimate in my NTSC 800XL, just for running CAR/XEX games, and the AVG in my 1088XEL for doing CAR/XEX and all the cool things I can't do from @flashjazzcat's loader menu. I have an SDrive-Max for ATX and CAS files.

 

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Mr Robot
Thanks for pointing out my embarrassing lack of patience!

[+sixersfan105]

17 minutes ago, Mr Robot said:

Yep. 

I got fed up waiting (little did I know than that the preorder thread isn't really a preorder thread and it won't get you added to a list, someone should delete it, at this point its more a troll post than a preorder list) so I got an Ultimate from The Brewing Academy. Then I watched the AVG get better and better so I messaged tmp and asked to be added to his list, he replied and said it would be a while, I said ok. Then I waited and fortune smiled when he gave me a cart for helping him design a new label for it. 

 

I now have the Ultimate in my NTSC 800XL, just for running CAR/XEX games, and the AVG in my 1088XEL for doing CAR/XEX and all the cool things I can't do from @flashjazzcat's loader menu. I have an SDrive-Max for ATX and CAS files.

 

 

Got it! Makes sense. Big fan of the new label btw; nicely done. 

 

I do see where the price on the AVGCart has gone up 15 EUR since it was originally made available in June 2018, but I suppose with increased functionality and a label upgrade, it's worth the higher price.

[Mr Robot]

1 hour ago, sixersfan105 said:

it's worth the higher price.

IMHO it would be worth it if it cost the same as the Ultimate cart, you'd still be getting more functionality for the same price. We probably shouldn't be telling @tmp that though should we  

[kiwilove]

On 9/15/2019 at 6:27 PM, Philsan said:

 

With UNO cart, if you don't have a memory expansion, you can't play Atari Blast!, Bomb Jake, Jim Slide XL, Midi Maze, Space Harrier.

Not many games but very nice.

 

And obviously many not compatible ATR only games (like all multicarts except for Ultimate 1MB - SIDE2 combo).

AtariBlast! in it's 8mb version - is one of the few big games that will run on a 16k machine.  If the UNO cart supports the Atarimax banked system - then it should run fine on this cart - as opposed to the Atarimax 8mb carts - it was initially designed for, running on.

 

Harvey