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What do you think of Video Game Critic’s scores for 7800 games?

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On 9/22/2019 at 9:25 AM, Lost Dragon said:

Honest question-Is the Video Game Critic held in higher regards within the Atari community than others?

Not for me.  His opinion is held in the same regard as I would anyone else who does a review.  It's always good to read and collect data from multiple sources.  Even then, while the majority opinion will often coincide with personal, there has been many times when that is not the case.  Not specific for the 7800 necessarily, but other platforms as well. 

 

Best example I can think of off the top of my head, for a relatively newer game, is Red Dead Redemption; an absolute snooze fest for me.

 

Quote

One aspect that differentiates this site from other review sites is that games are graded based on how they compare with other games for the same system. Unlike most site who dole out mostly A's and B's, the VGC system is balanced, so he gives out just as many F's as he does A's.

Eh...no different than my own grading.  Actually, I gave out more F's than A's.

 

Spoiler

A
==

Robotron: 2084
Ninja Golf
Motor Psycho
Midnight Mutants
Joust
Food Fight
Desert Falcon
Commando
Basketbrawl
Alien Brigade


B
==

Xevious
Xenophobe
Tower Toppler
Pole Position II
Ms Pac-Man
Ikari Warriors
Galaga
Dig Dug
Dark Chambers
Crossbow
Centipede
Ballblazer
Asteroids

 

C
==

Winter Games
Super Skateboardin'
Summer Games
Scrapyard Dog
Rampage
One-On-One Basketball
Mean 18 Ultimate Golf
Mario Bros
Kung-Fu Master
Impossible Mission
Fatal Run
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong Jr

 

D
==

Water Ski
Tank Command
Planet Smashers
Pete Rose Baseball
Karateka
Jinks
Double Dragon
Crack'ed
Choplifter

 

F
==

Touchdown Football
Tomcat - The F-14 Fighter Simulator
Title Match Pro Wrestling
Super Huey UH-IX
RealSports Baseball
Meltdown
Mat Mania Challenge
Hat Trick
Fight Night
F-18 Hornet
Barnyard Blaster
Ace of Aces

 

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On 9/22/2019 at 3:25 PM, Lost Dragon said:

Honest question-Is the Video Game Critic held in higher regards within the Atari community than others?.

 

 

 

I just wondered what makes his reviews stand out for scrutiny amongst the countless ones you can find online. 

When I googled some game-titles (with review behind them), he came fairly high up.

 

While many have reviewed many atari 7800 games, VGC seems to have reviewed all or almost-all titles.

 

And they were listed from A-Z with scores.

 

So, since he - at least in my google-search - came fairly high up (together with AtariAge-lists and professional reviews), but I still felt he both nailed it on certain titles and way-off on others, I felt like... hm... having his reviews reviewed.

Edited by Giles N

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1 hour ago, Trebor said:

Not for me.  His opinion is held in the same regard as I would anyone else who does a review.  It's always good to read and collect data from multiple sources.  Even then, while the majority opinion will often coincide with personal, there has been many times when that is not the case.  Not specific for the 7800 necessarily, but other platforms as well. 

 

Best example I can think of off the top of my head, for a relatively newer game, is Red Dead Redemption; an absolute snooze fest for me.

 

Eh...no different than my own grading.  Actually, I gave out more F's than A's.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

A
==

Robotron: 2084
Ninja Golf
Motor Psycho
Midnight Mutants
Joust
Food Fight
Desert Falcon
Commando
Basketbrawl
Alien Brigade


B
==

Xevious
Xenophobe
Tower Toppler
Pole Position II
Ms Pac-Man
Ikari Warriors
Galaga
Dig Dug
Dark Chambers
Crossbow
Centipede
Ballblazer
Asteroids

 

C
==

Winter Games
Super Skateboardin'
Summer Games
Scrapyard Dog
Rampage
One-On-One Basketball
Mean 18 Ultimate Golf
Mario Bros
Kung-Fu Master
Impossible Mission
Fatal Run
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong Jr

 

D
==

Water Ski
Tank Command
Planet Smashers
Pete Rose Baseball
Karateka
Jinks
Double Dragon
Crack'ed
Choplifter

 

F
==

Touchdown Football
Tomcat - The F-14 Fighter Simulator
Title Match Pro Wrestling
Super Huey UH-IX
RealSports Baseball
Meltdown
Mat Mania Challenge
Hat Trick
Fight Night
F-18 Hornet
Barnyard Blaster
Ace of Aces

 

Really appreciate the feedback here from everyone,  gives me a much greater understanding. 

 

From a UK point of view up until 

1992, you could still buy a 7800 in Toys 'R' Us stores and other places , but  the games seemed  frighteningly dated by this point.

 

Atari was aiming it at same market sector they had the 2600 Jr aimed at..young kids and less affluent families. 

 

It was cheap, sturdy and as kid proof as you could get.

 

 

Press coverage was very limited though. .Some reviews and coverage in Raze Magazine..news snippets in C+VG, ACE and  Zero Magazine,  so there was never a 'trusted reviewer' was hard to find.

 

 

I loved Classic Xbox Red Dead, but that had been mainly Capcom's work.

 

 

Picked up R.D.R on PS3 after the likes of Edge and Gamestm gave it rave reviews..

 

Bored me sh#tless. .

 

GTA 5 i tried on PS3 then bought again on PS4..i am the polar opposite with this to what the reviewers found it to be.

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1 hour ago, Giles N said:

When I googled some game-titles (with review behind them), he came fairly high up.

 

While many have reviewed many atari 7800 games, VGC seems to have reviewed all or almost-all titles.

 

And they were listed from A-Z with scores.

 

So, since he - at least in my google-search - came fairly high up (together with AtariAge-lists and professional reviews), but I still felt he both nailed it on certain titles and way-off on others, I felt like... hm... having his reviews reviewed.

 

Correct, he's one of the few independent reviewers in "print" anymore.  Most simply post YouTube videos.  Hardcore Gaming 101 (http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/) has tons of great game reviews, which are long form.  VGC is short form, which is useful many times.  Sega-16, Atari Age, and a few other sites carry a lot of long form reviews. 

 

1 minute ago, Lost Dragon said:

Really appreciate the feedback here from everyone,  gives me a much greater understanding. 

 

From a UK point of view up until 

1992, you could still buy a 7800 in Toys 'R' Us stores and other places , but  the games seemed  frighteningly dated by this point.

 

Atari was aiming it at same market sector they had the 2600 Jr aimed at..young kids and less affluent families. 

 

It was cheap, sturdy and as kid proof as you could get.

 

Press coverage was very limited though. .Some reviews and coverage in Raze Magazine..news snippets in C+VG, ACE and  Zero Magazine,  so there was never a 'trusted reviewer' was hard to find.

 

 

Most quickly ignored the 7800 and SMS in the USA once the NES took hold, followed by the Genesis and SNES, and later Playstation and N64.  I never was into any of the review mags back then, when I would have preferred to have been able to watch demos (impossible at the time).  They all seemed to be done by shills or journalists who weren't truly gamers.  Nowadays, retro reviews in video form are literally gamers playing the games. 

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I know Ace Of Aces is a poor conversion on the 7800, but do people loathe it's gameplay that much? .

 

 

I enjoyed it as a kid on the C64 and that was with enduring the tape multi load. 

 

Games like Ace Of Aces...The Train...Beach Head and Beach Head II i really enjoyed. 

 

Raid over Moscow was the one i could never understand the review scores for at the time.

 

Sooo frustrating. .

 

 

Never even got the space plane out the hanger.

 

 

100% Your Commodore

 

92% Crash (ZX Spectrum )

 

 

90% Info-64

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Just now, Greg2600 said:

 

Correct, he's one of the few independent reviewers in "print" anymore.  Most simply post YouTube videos.  Hardcore Gaming 101 (http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/) has tons of great game reviews, which are long form.  VGC is short form, which is useful many times.  Sega-16, Atari Age, and a few other sites carry a lot of long form reviews. 

 

 

Most quickly ignored the 7800 and SMS in the USA once the NES took hold, followed by the Genesis and SNES, and later Playstation and N64.  I never was into any of the review mags back then, when I would have preferred to have been able to watch demos (impossible at the time).  They all seemed to be done by shills or journalists who weren't truly gamers.  Nowadays, retro reviews in video form are literally gamers playing the games. 

We treated magazines like Zzap64..Mean Machines..The One etc as our Games Bibles back then and they were often staffed by real gamers.

 

 

Julian Rignall held UK and world record high scores for Defender and Pole Position, beat more than 500 others to win 1983's C+VG video arcade game championship. 

 

But that didn't mean the magazines always got in right.

 

 

Zzap64 for example:

 

Barbarian II (Palace Software) and Hawkeye (Thalamus) were never worthy Gold Medal winners..

 

Wizball should of been, but pulled in a lower Sizzler award.

 

 

Laser Squad criminally underscored. 

 

But it was reviewing  of C64 Operation Thunderbolt that did it for me.

 

Deal struck with Ocean where if Zzap64 gave the game a high score based on the 50% complete/little more than a rolling demo..C64 version, Ocean would give Zzap64 exclusive coverage of upcoming big titles.

 

Magazines credibility was undone there and then for me.

 

 

Mean Machines and it's seperate review booklet for Earthworm Jim II and various UK magazines giving M.D The Terminator rave review scores..bought on day of release. .completed on my second go..was so p#ssed with that 😡

 

Were when I started to drastically reduce my magazine buying.

 

When Playstation Magazines tried to copy Ladz Magz like Loaded etc..i reduced interest even further.

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9 hours ago, Lost Dragon said:

I know Ace Of Aces is a poor conversion on the 7800, but do people loathe it's gameplay that much? .

 

 

I enjoyed it as a kid on the C64 and that was with enduring the tape multi load. 

 

Games like Ace Of Aces...The Train...Beach Head and Beach Head II i really enjoyed. 

 

 

I haven’t played Ace of Aces (7800) that much.

 

It’s a bit slow framerate, but I certainly don’t loathe it.

 

It’s more like one of the just-ok to ok-and-fun-games.

 

I not gotten far, but some of the dog-fights seem nice for a port not going for the highest framerates.

 

I’d say (just first-impression), its one of the in-the-middle games.

 

Edited by Giles N

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9 hours ago, Greg2600 said:

 

Correct, he's one of the few independent reviewers in "print" anymore.  Most simply post YouTube videos.  Hardcore Gaming 101 (http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/) has tons of great game reviews, which are long form.  VGC is short form, which is useful many times.  Sega-16, Atari Age, and a few other sites carry a lot of long form reviews. 

 

 

Most quickly ignored the 7800 and SMS in the USA once the NES took hold, followed by the Genesis and SNES, and later Playstation and N64.  I never was into any of the review mags back then, when I would have preferred to have been able to watch demos (impossible at the time).  They all seemed to be done by shills or journalists who weren't truly gamers.  Nowadays, retro reviews in video form are literally gamers playing the games. 

The SMS did quite well in Europe, even though South-America was its ‘success’-region.

 

At ages 9-12 I really, really wanted an SMS (being European), so it was one of the first consoles I bought for my retro-game hobby.

 

I’ve collected a good deal of classics, quality-titles and rarities for the SMS.

 

Afterburner, Out Run, Wonderboy 1-4, Sonic-titles, Space Gun, Operation Wolf, New Zealand Story, Donald and Mickey-games, Monaco GP 2, Out Run 3D, T2 arcade, Rainbow Islands, Bubble Bobble, Gauntlet, Shadow Dancer, Shinobi, Hang On, Power Strike 1 & 2, Ramparts & others looks and plays very well considering its an 8-bit system.

 

— 

I played Arcade versions of many of these in my childhood, so I was really curious to get hands-on experiences with contemporary-to-the-original-arcades home-system-versions.

 

Then I wondered about the systems being either 1/2 a generation before (the Atari 5200), or the same gen. but with different library, which also homeconsole versions of arcades I played as kid (for example Staw Wars Arcade, Pole Position and Pengo) and then also the 7800 (Pole Position 2 and Robotron 2084).

Edited by Giles N

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On 9/18/2019 at 2:59 PM, Inky said:

I have no problem with clone games. Blatant rip offs, of which Desert Falcon is NOT, are another story.

 

My main issue with Desert Falcon isn't the landing or swimming, it's the randomness of how the enemies behave, with the poor collision detection. It's difficult to tell if you're in the right place to shoot an enemy, or to avoid it. It makes no sense also that if you touch a pyramid while walking on the ground that you die.  Are they electrified, ala Berzerk? I'm not a fan of the seemingly fuzzy graphics, but if a game is fun, I'm willing to overlook that.

The thing in the game I like the most is the battle with the sphinx.

I had a go at Desert Falcon a couple of days ago.

 

The thing is to look at the distance between your (falcon) shadow and the shadow of the enemies: when the distance between the enemies and their shadows are the same as the distance between your falcon and his shadow, you’re in line to shoot them.

 

Anyway quickly going either highest up or land/almost-hover above the ground are good ways of holding to a certain line-of-fire.

 

Edited by Giles N

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Robotron 2084 got a C-.

 

I play it with only one control; even then I’d say B- (at worst)

 

It has just a ton of things going on, plethora of action and highly responsive controls.

 

Not C-.

 

I’ve played a lot of Robotron on the 7800, 800, and 5200 over the years. The main problem with all versions of these games obviously comes down to having excellent controllers. The Edladdin Twin stick controller makes playing Robotron on the 7800/800/5200(masterplay) an amazing experience for me. I’m sure that if the VGC guy would have used this controller it would be an A+. The grades of other games on the 7800 would have been affected as well. Using a good set of Proline controllers with a controller coupler of some kind makes Robotron a Solid B+ for me. Still, I am very partial to twin stick arcade shooters.

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5 hours ago, adamchevy said:

 

I’ve played a lot of Robotron on the 7800, 800, and 5200 over the years. The main problem with all versions of these games obviously comes down to having excellent controllers. The Edladdin Twin stick controller makes playing Robotron on the 7800/800/5200(masterplay) an amazing experience for me. I’m sure that if the VGC guy would have used this controller it would be an A+. The grades of other games on the 7800 would have been affected as well. Using a good set of Proline controllers with a controller coupler of some kind makes Robotron a Solid B+ for me. Still, I am very partial to twin stick arcade shooters.

I saw something much cheaper at ebay; looked like an retrogameboyz-thing.

 

Had 2 NES-like direction-buttons: one on the left, one on the right, and buttons in the middle.

 

I can’t find them anymore on ebay, but hope some will produce more.

 

I also just played it using two retrogameboyz gamepads (which are light and small), and held one in each hand separately.

Ok, fair ‘nough, - would be better if connected - but completely playable.

 

If I had been stuck with older American stick-controllers, well, then it would be either glue them onto something or just play with one stick.

 

I don’t find it unplayable with shooting only the direction you move. Just better and adds much more with double controllers.

Edited by Giles N

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