Jump to content

Recommended Posts

First I'd like to say a lot of people say to me trdl so I'll keep it short.

 

I need help with two steps to complete my joystick working with everything I have from Atari to Xbox One.

 

I'd like to thank both the atariage.com and shoryuken.com and their respective user helpers for getting me 90% done.

 

These are the last two issues I have before I'm confident I joystick will work.

 

The first is Intellivision.  I'm trying to make a discrete 8 way joystick with four discrete inputs work with an intellivision. 

 

First I understand games that require 16 ways will not work properly like analog driving games like Turbo,  Pole Position, and Airto Racing.  Also I heard Vectron won't work right because certain things require tertiary directions.

 

That being said, I could have sworn I found a circuit guide for turning an 8-way joystick into an intellivision 8-way joystick.  It was originally a 2600 to television converter but could be made for discrete fightstick to Intellivision.

 

involves using certain chips that were pure logic chips like an AND and something else, 4 of each of 2 types.   

 

Also if I remember correctly each side button has a 2 PIN code and that person any two or all three buttons makes all three pins corresponding to buttons light up.  Sew one button lights pins A& B another B& C and a third A&C.  Since normal why Y-ing is on an OR basis, this should be as simple as Y-ing 3 two line buttons.  Any special way to do that?

 

Finally I've got some extra action buttons. Four to five systems have keypad buttons that I'd like to press mid game. Like hyperspave in Defender.

First would Y-ing the circuit to an existing controller make it so I can use the keypad type numbers regularly fot options, then map up to 4 keys yo the top row of buttons.

 

And yes I understand that the keypad is probably matrixed in some way so that certain combinations of pins equal certain key prices, and pressing more than one key does not equal pressing those two keys individually together if they wrte independent.  They're both coded it's treated as a bitwise OR believe. These are truly dependent buttons. Pressing more than 1 yields unpredictable results.

 

At first I suggested a bomb game where you have to hold multiple buttons and release buttons to avoid setting off the booby trap, kinf of like  finger twister,  but I don't know if that's possible unless each of the 12 keypad buttons are totally Independence and we require some coding and compression and timing issues to register all 12 buttons.

 

if I could sum up advice for people who want to build an Atari to Xbox joystick it's this:. Build an electronically simple joystick it's uncoded and one wire equals one input. Otherwise you're like a Frenchman acting as an interpreter between a Spaniard and a German.

 

Thanks to these people who got me this far:

Spoiler

Now I thank quite a few people that build pre-made stuff it looks like It should help me.  Raphnet-tech.com , edladdin.com, and atariage users nurnix and bohoki made physical equipment that work, as well as paradisearcadeshop.com for the cthulhu, and a few various places on the net and ebay for the adapters.     Plus countless pieces of  advice from both honest people who help as well as people who do comedy as advice by being (since i'll assume there could be 6 year ilds reading this) jerks and bullies. But in q helpful way.   But in their weird way. They make sure that's what you want, and is reasonable and useful.

 

Thr other pieve of afvice, as long as you stay diecrete, meamig one wire equals one signal, your imagination can run wild, instead of being limited by a system's joystick code.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes you can plug two controllers with a Y adapter to an intellivision.

 

As I said in your topic in the intellivision forum each intellivision button connects ground with two pins/circuits.  And it can be done with diodes.  Here's a schematic of what I mean but I haven't tested it.

controller_button_circuit.thumb.png.0dfca288933028a2c3b83824f184d248.png

 

All keypad buttons each connect ground with two pins/circuits so you could do the same there.  Alternatively, you could use single throw double pole switches if such a thing exist. 

 

You can wire the joystick straight to four pins like most other systems.  This will work with lots of intellivision cartridges but some will have diagonals screwed up.  To get that correct you need extra logic circuits as was done here.  It also requires external power.

http://arcarc.xmission.com/Web Archives/Deathskull (May-2006)/games/tech/intvsticky.html

 

Here's the intellivision de-9 pinout and the other atariage topic for reference.

http://arcarc.xmission.com/Web Archives/Deathskull (May-2006)/games/tech/intvcont.html

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/290228-intellivision-fight-stick-adapter/

 

Edited by mr_me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all thanks for another reference.

when this page is done I was going to refer to shoryuken.com so hobbyist can make a true Omni joystick for everything from Atari to Xbox One.  if you're going to have a multi console joystick anyway might as well and he's extra joysticks for few bucks more.

 

Second looking at the code. If two of the actions button pins are actuated then the code goes into joystick and action button mode since all buttons activate to button pins. To get a control to activate a keypad in addition to following the rules of not pressing a keypad button with either the disc or the action buttons I think I found an easy pattern that makes sense in a grid. It looks like the first four pins are the four separate rows themselves 1-3, 4-6, 7-9 and clear, 0 and enter,. And the three columns AR represented by the free action buttons but when one is pressed it refers to the keypad, plus two pins puts it in this plus button mode.  Any changes dynamically every frame of input.

 

Also if a game allows you to press two buttons together they could be any two buttons doesn't matter which two and three buttons does nothing extra what if a game doesn't recognize the all-three-pin-push then we go into error, right?

 

Okay the hardest thing about the intellivision is limiting it to eight ways by using external logic chips.  is it as simple as buying the chips and wiring them in a way that person who knows how to solder and could be shown how to solder it could do?

 

Aquestion about the other keyboard consoles namely ColecoVision, 5200 Jaguar   and, if there a way to do externalize the Arcadia, the Arcadia. Are the other keyboard matrix codes as easy as in televisions one row in one column activates two switches which pins and individual button or is that more complex than that for the other sysyem's keys?

 

Also should I assume that if you Y adapter a real working controller and an extra action button defined as a single keypad press, that is long as you don't break the rules of the controller, it should work exactly the same either from the real keypad or the wired soldered  buttons?  Also would that be the only decent way to add speed roller on the ColecoVision super action just Y-combine it in and let the internal Super action controller convert it the way it's supposed to.

 

Someone told me the Jaguar keypad was not matrixed, matrixed meaning  meaning 2+ pins equals one key.  Someone else told me it was a timing sequence and all 12 keypad buttons are independently mapped to one pin for each key on the 15 pin port.  Which of the two is true?

 

Based on what I read about the ColecoVision that has a sequential read like reading the Atari joystick part first subframe, the other three buttons and keypad next subframe, and a special speed roller sequence as the third subframe.

 

If it's matrix like the intellivision  the good news is that it's easy to wire a discrete controller to make a button equal to keep press,  but the bad news is you can't play my Finger Twister Game in theory in the default mode. To activate timing mode you probably need a new PCB or just hardwire a three-button Jaguar which on eBay costs15 bucks including shipping.  if that's the case how easy is it to pad hack a three-button Jag controller?

 

One other issue is digital joysticks on the 5200, I assume I can cannibalize a PC controller that's a digital d-pad and pad hack that, and hook it into the bohoki adapter.

 

Also some video games don't work right on the 5200 if diagonals are pressed because of the lazy programming assumption that if one Cardinal is above 80% the other must be less than 60% which is true of the default controller but not with a fightstick or the competition Pro digital joystick.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all thanks for another reference.

when this page is done I was going to refer to shoryuken.com so hobbyist can make a true Omni joystick for everything from Atari to Xbox One.  if you're going to have a multi console joystick anyway might as well and he's extra joysticks for few bucks more.

 

Second looking at the code. If two of the actions button pins are actuated then the code goes into joystick and action button mode since all buttons activate to button pins. To get a control to activate a keypad in addition to following the rules of not pressing a keypad button with either the disc or the action buttons I think I found an easy pattern that makes sense in a grid. It looks like the first four pins are the four separate rows themselves 1-3, 4-6, 7-9 and clear, 0 and enter,. And the three columns AR represented by the free action buttons but when one is pressed it refers to the keypad, plus two pins puts it in this plus button mode.  Any changes dynamically every frame of input.

 

Also if a game allows you to press two buttons together they could be any two buttons doesn't matter which two and three buttons does nothing extra what if a game doesn't recognize the all-three-pin-push then we go into error, right?

 

Okay the hardest thing about the intellivision is limiting it to eight ways by using external logic chips.  is it as simple as buying the chips and wiring them in a way that person who knows how to solder and could be shown how to solder it could do?

 

Aquestion about the other keyboard consoles namely ColecoVision, 5200 Jaguar   and, if there a way to do externalize the Arcadia, the Arcadia. Are the other keyboard matrix codes as easy as in televisions one row in one column activates two switches which pins and individual button or is that more complex than that for the other sysyem's keys?

 

Also should I assume that if you Y adapter a real working controller and an extra action button defined as a single keypad press, that is long as you don't break the rules of the controller, it should work exactly the same either from the real keypad or the wired soldered  buttons?  Also would that be the only decent way to add speed roller on the ColecoVision super action just Y-combine it in and let the internal Super action controller convert it the way it's supposed to.

 

Someone told me the Jaguar keypad was not matrixed, matrixed meaning  meaning 2+ pins equals one key.  Someone else told me it was a timing sequence and all 12 keypad buttons are independently mapped to one pin for each key on the 15 pin port.  Which of the two is true?

 

Based on what I read about the ColecoVision that has a sequential read like reading the Atari joystick part first subframe, the other three buttons and keypad next subframe, and a special speed roller sequence as the third subframe.

 

If it's matrix like the intellivision  the good news is that it's easy to wire a discrete controller to make a button equal to keep press,  but the bad news is you can't play my Finger Twister Game in theory in the default mode. To activate timing mode you probably need a new PCB or just hardwire a three-button Jaguar which on eBay costs15 bucks including shipping.  if that's the case how easy is it to pad hack a three-button Jag controller?

 

One other issue is digital joysticks on the 5200, I assume I can cannibalize a PC controller that's a digital d-pad and pad hack that, and hook it into the bohoki adapter.

 

Also some video games don't work right on the 5200 if diagonals are pressed because of the lazy programming assumption that if one Cardinal is above 80% the other must be less than 60% which is true of the default controller but not with a fightstick or the digital joystick made by coin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By tje way

  I notice when two (or none or all 3) of the  button pins was on  that frame is disc + button mode. But a single button pin refers to a column, and the first 4 pins refer to the row.  In disc mode the first 4 were catdinals, and 8 and 9 were terriary modifiers.

 

That's a fairly easy natrix to decode.

 

The only other thonk i need is the 5200 keypad contorld, the Jaguar keyboard controls and (if someone wants to makes an external joystick attachment), an Arcadia 2001.

 

I don't need Colecovision brcause edladdin.com makes a keypad with a 13 position ribbon cable.   Should i assume all buttons use one of the 2 grounds exclusively?  Is it the B ground?

 

Is the CVSA PCB able tp accept a real SAC controller for  keypad presses and roller wheel add on?  And is the map of matrixing of Coleco keypad somewhere?

 

Is it safe to say efladdin's 12 digit keypad has single discrete inputs before it gets in the PCB, so i can 3.5 mm mod them to have extra buttons on an 8 button stick activate a key and it'd be right?

 

Also if edladdin.com uses 12 discrete buttons and one ground, that that should be a good unversal part to reuse for 5200, INTV, and Jag, ( and 2001)

 

Om yhe meantimr i'll try to google my owm answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the website old.pinouts.ru has some help.

 

I see the 5200 pinouts.  I assume that

 

a) only one keypad key can be pressed at a time and make sense.

 

b)  just get each pin to light up one row and one column, with the syste butons being a fourth column of 3 buttons.

 

The bohoki adapter and the cannibalizing of a digital pc pad should take care of the rest.

 

And apparantly arcarc.xmission.com has has printed the joystick logic language of using a 21 key matrix.   I cn understand the INTV and 5200 system well.  But you newed more than an incomplete colleghe education to figure out the marixing of the 21 inuts and the 4 controllers on Team Tap.  It looks easier just to pad hack a $15 jag pad annd.  Unless someone can put this in a discrete-to-Jag pcb for cheaper than a jag pad and difference in cost of manual labor to hack a jag pad, pad hack it is.

 

At least I now my Finger Twister bomb mini-game MIGHT work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the INTV.  keypad looks eady. As dors the 5200 keypad matrix.

 

The Jaguar matrix looks so nuts, it's just easier ti vuy a eorking basuc JaPad for $15 on ebay, and manually wire each button.  But my connection has only 18 independent inputs N, E, S, W, A, B, C, pause and optuons are 9 independent inputs.  +12 of the keypad and you have 21 inouts in 15 pins.

 

If one just had discrete controls, can one easily build a proper multi pin matrixer like the 5200 or INTV?  If that's the case, you can literall only press one control at once.  No diagonals, no running jumps, no gas abd steering in Atari Karts.   There's more than meets the eye, usung a natrix scheme to have any nunber from 1 to 21 if the 21 inputs be on at the same time.  You need some kind of custom electronics to make 21 independent buttons out of 15 pins.  Something omly a Jaguar engineer can ubderstand, and the cheapest wsy to use it is to cannibalize a JagPad.

 

Do I understand this right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If by discrete controls, you mean a single pole switch like a regular arcade button; then you can wire them as intellivision keypad buttons with a couple of diodes each like the schematic for the side buttons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, mr_me said:

If by discrete controls, you mean a single pole switch like a regular arcade button; then you can wire them as intellivision keypad buttons with a couple of diodes each like the schematic for the side buttons.

my main concern is whether or not I have to sacrifice a PCB in order to activate the keyboard.  

 

Sincr the Intellivission and 5200 have fairly easy concepts of what wires to wire those I could do directly without sacrificing and Intellivision or 5200 pad.

 

In both cases wire each button to the column pain and the row pin.

 

But the Jaguar uses a more complex system that's not as easy to wire as just a row pin and a column pin.  In the case of the Jaguar it might just be easier to sacrifice a standard Jagpad and wire buttons directly to it than to try to figure out a system to save a Jagpad.

 

As for ColecoVision edladdin.com helps me save a joystick.  plus I heard the keypad combination code is more complex for a ColecoVision than a 5200 or intellivision.

 

Finally the Emerson Arcadia 2001,. Is it even worth it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As was discussed in the other thread an intellivision controller pcb, the mylar flex circuit, will be of no use.  Intellivision buttons essentially act as double pole switches.  With regular buttons/switches you need to figure out how to include all those diodes, two for each button.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I said before  I only know part of the solution.  I'm trying to direct the guy who knows how to do soldering and wiring and woodworking but doesn't know much about programming.

 

He basically builds fight sticks based on pre-existing plans.

 

Most things are pre built like a Cthulhu and a Brook Universal USB.

 

I learned a couple things from a guy who said he was going to build it and then added a feature I didn't want, and told me to either a)shut up  and pay, or b) put my two cents in and lose a warranty on it.  So i chose to c) walk out.

 

I'll ask if my guy knows how to do matrix wiring.  I assume it's as simple as leading two wires out of an output to the two different pin inputs.

 

I know that most dumb electronics (meaning no electronics inside, meaning physical RCA Y adapters) can either be used one-in-two-out or two-in-one-out and it's the context of electricity flow which determines its function.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, my bad. I thought when you said it was 90 percent complete you where talking about a physical object's state of completion not just an idea for such a thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Shawn said:

OK, my bad. I thought when you said it was 90 percent complete you where talking about a physical object's state of completion not just an idea for such a thing.

You're right about the idea being 90% done  but the joystick itself is physically 50% done.  It's tested to work with everything on the Cthulhu except for NES Saturn and SNES right now but I can test it when it gets home.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...