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hloberg

how to get files to TI/99 using a PEB

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I just got a PEB (see my avatar). It has a full high ss/sd drive, memory, rs-232,-code cards installed. I know there is many, many ways of getting files to the TI-99 from the internet using the PEC; HxC drives, IDE card, Mod RS-232 card, TIPi card and probably more. BUT, some are no longer get-able and others are still not available. So, what do you all think is the best and most cost effective way of getting files to the TI-99 from the internet. I'm leaning to replacing my full high ss/sd with 1 or 2 HxC floppy emulators. Any thoughts on the subject?

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The most effective is using a serial cable and HDX. It's in the FAQ pinned post under transferring files from a pc. You don't need to modify your rs232 to do it..

 

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

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I use TI99PC as I have my PC with 5 1/4" disk drive, I download the .DSK file and then use TI99PC to create the disk then take it to my TI99 and voila! instant gratification!

 

So if you ever need disks just let me know how I can help!

 

Bill

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also i recommend a gotek with the flashfloppy firmware over the HxC, much less expensive.. i build them as well or you can hack your own

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My take, sometimes going cheap is NOT always the best solution.

 

The Lotharek HxC

The unit slides into the PEB but depending on your setup...

Additional requirements:  New cable or converter as it uses the connector used on 3.5" drives. 

                                          You'll also need a Y adapter for the power.

                                          Possibly a mounting plate and a 1/2 height plate to fill the gap if you don't have a second drive internally.

It will look exactly like a regular drive to the TI, but requires the use of a program to make virtual disks and TI99Dir to copy files over to the SD card.  It works, but there are couple of time consuming extra steps in copying over new stuff over. 

 

Gotek

It essentially behaves the same as the Lotharek (with the appropriate software), but I *believe* if you want it to show what disk you are actually using, it requires an add on LCD display.  While functional it does not appear as aesthetically pleasing as the Lotharek.

 

P-Box TIPI/RPi

This, in my opinion, (when it's available again) is the BEST, but not cheapest route.  It does give one the most 'bang for the buck' though.

Not only will it give you a simulated hard drive, it also simulates disk drives.  I prefer the format it stores it's files in, as you are not restricted to a limited number of files 'per disk' and does not require a conversion program, however in some very rare instances when a program requires a true disk format, it's not going to behave.  But unless you use Multiplan or some other rare program it will not be an issue, especially if you are using your physical drive as well. 

 

With the TIPI, you will not need additional cables, converters or other garbage.  Just the power cable going to the RPi.  It loads and saves much faster than disk or HxC, and when copying can do it wirelessly over your home WiFi network.  You can even map the TIPI on your PC as "T" drive and use programs like TI99Dir, Classic 99, or even your Internet browser to save and load programs with the TIPI.

 

Besides all of the other stuff, it'll also give you Internet capability to use Stuart's Internet browser, the TELNET program to call the BBS and play some of the online games if you wish and mouse support for some existing programs.

 

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5 hours ago, HOME AUTOMATION said:

TIDir.

If you have an older system with 5 1/4 drive and fm/mfm controller.

 

3 hours ago, videofx said:

I use TI99PC as I have my PC with 5 1/4" disk drive, I download the .DSK file and then use TI99PC to create the disk then take it to my TI99 and voila! instant gratification!

 

So if you ever need disks just let me know how I can help!

 

Bill

I meant to say TI99PC... But for the older 90K drive like yours, I believe the PC's disk controller needs to use the somewhat obsolete FM or MFM encoding. I think they stopped using these around when 200MHz Pentiums came out.

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anyone know if any of these are p-card format compatible?

 

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9 hours ago, --- Ω --- said:

My take, sometimes going cheap is NOT always the best solution.

 

The Lotharek HxC

The unit slides into the PEB but depending on your setup...

Additional requirements:  New cable or converter as it uses the connector used on 3.5" drives. 

                                          You'll also need a Y adapter for the power.

                                          Possibly a mounting plate and a 1/2 height plate to fill the gap if you don't have a second drive internally.

It will look exactly like a regular drive to the TI, but requires the use of a program to make virtual disks and TI99Dir to copy files over to the SD card.  It works, but there are couple of time consuming extra steps in copying over new stuff over. 

 

Gotek

It essentially behaves the same as the Lotharek (with the appropriate software), but I *believe* if you want it to show what disk you are actually using, it requires an add on LCD display.  While functional it does not appear as aesthetically pleasing as the Lotharek.

 

P-Box TIPI/RPi

This, in my opinion, (when it's available again) is the BEST, but not cheapest route.  It does give one the most 'bang for the buck' though.

Not only will it give you a simulated hard drive, it also simulates disk drives.  I prefer the format it stores it's files in, as you are not restricted to a limited number of files 'per disk' and does not require a conversion program, however in some very rare instances when a program requires a true disk format, it's not going to behave.  But unless you use Multiplan or some other rare program it will not be an issue, especially if you are using your physical drive as well. 

 

With the TIPI, you will not need additional cables, converters or other garbage.  Just the power cable going to the RPi.  It loads and saves much faster than disk or HxC, and when copying can do it wirelessly over your home WiFi network.  You can even map the TIPI on your PC as "T" drive and use programs like TI99Dir, Classic 99, or even your Internet browser to save and load programs with the TIPI.

 

Besides all of the other stuff, it'll also give you Internet capability to use Stuart's Internet browser, the TELNET program to call the BBS and play some of the online games if you wish and mouse support for some existing programs.

 

The Lotharek is a bit better of a system than Gotek, from my estimation. I have both drives in one system.

 

The TiPi blows both out of the water though for convenience and ease of use. All I do is upload files directly from my PC to the simulated drive, and bam, it's there on my hardware. No converting to disk images or dealing with some weird problem with disk file sectors not aligning properly. Yes, you pay a bit more for it, and you have to wait for the cards to get back in stock and do a bit of setup work yourself, but if your intent is to develop software in emulation and port to the hardware, I can't see it being done any other way without being a major pain, IMHO.

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5 hours ago, hloberg said:

anyone know if any of these are p-card format compatible?

 

The disks used by the p-code card, or rather the p-system, which is the operating system the p-code card stores in its memory, are the same as the disks used for the rest of the system. From a recording format point of view, that is.

The difference is that they don't use the proprietary disk catalog system the TI 99/4A uses for most other things. Like storing BASIC programs or text files for use with the Editor/Assembler or TI Writer.

The principle is similar as with most Forth systems, which also don't use the normal file system, but store data in "screens" instead.

A disk used by the UCSD p-system, in a TI 99/4A, has a dummy file, called PASCAL, that covers the whole disk. It's there to make the disk occupied in the view of the standard operating system. Inside this file is the p-system's own disk catalog and files. This means that it's technically possible to copy a p-system disk with the normal Disk managers, as they will think they are copying some data file on the disk, without understanding that the pseudo file actually contains a full disk image, in a different operating system.

 

The long in the short of this is that if you can copy a normal disk, you can also copy a p-system disk. But it takes that you have the p-system disk image in your PC from the beginning, of course, or you have nothing to copy.

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9 hours ago, apersson850 said:

The disks used by the p-code card, or rather the p-system, which is the operating system the p-code card stores in its memory, are the same as the disks used for the rest of the system. From a recording format point of view, that is.

The difference is that they don't use the proprietary disk catalog system the TI 99/4A uses for most other things. Like storing BASIC programs or text files for use with the Editor/Assembler or TI Writer.

The principle is similar as with most Forth systems, which also don't use the normal file system, but store data in "screens" instead.

A disk used by the UCSD p-system, in a TI 99/4A, has a dummy file, called PASCAL, that covers the whole disk. It's there to make the disk occupied in the view of the standard operating system. Inside this file is the p-system's own disk catalog and files. This means that it's technically possible to copy a p-system disk with the normal Disk managers, as they will think they are copying some data file on the disk, without understanding that the pseudo file actually contains a full disk image, in a different operating system.

 

The long in the short of this is that if you can copy a normal disk, you can also copy a p-system disk. But it takes that you have the p-system disk image in your PC from the beginning, of course, or you have nothing to copy.

thank you, that clears up a lot.

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11 hours ago, adamantyr said:

The Lotharek is a bit better of a system than Gotek, from my estimation. I have both drives in one system.

 

The TiPi blows both out of the water though for convenience and ease of use. All I do is upload files directly from my PC to the simulated drive, and bam, it's there on my hardware. No converting to disk images or dealing with some weird problem with disk file sectors not aligning properly. Yes, you pay a bit more for it, and you have to wait for the cards to get back in stock and do a bit of setup work yourself, but if your intent is to develop software in emulation and port to the hardware, I can't see it being done any other way without being a major pain, IMHO.

well the latch mechanism just broke on the old full high ss/sd 5 1/4 I have so that makes things more complicated. I 'might' be able to repair it but as old as this thing is??? 

Also, that beast of a PEB I found takes up too much space on my small desk and I about get a hernia moving the thing which I would have to do every time I switched out the TI-99 for one of my other computers. So I might just use it for messing with boards and p-code stuff. maybe get a Lotharek (or gotek) or just use a serial cable for file transfer. otherwise for everyday use an external TIPI (when they are back in stock).

____________________________

 

Not to get you guys off on another tangent, (but to really do that 😁 ) since the p-code card is mostly a software card, wouldn't it be possible to create it in the TIPI?

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7 minutes ago, hloberg said:

well the latch mechanism just broke on the old full high ss/sd 5 1/4 I have so that makes things more complicated. I 'might' be able to repair it but as old as this thing is??? 

Also, that beast of a PEB I found takes up too much space on my small desk and I about get a hernia moving the thing which I would have to do every time I switched out the TI-99 for one of my other computers. So I might just use it for messing with boards and p-code stuff. maybe get a Lotharek (or gotek) or just use a serial cable for file transfer. otherwise for everyday use an external TIPI (when they are back in stock).

____________________________

 

Not to get you guys off on another tangent, (but to really do that 😁 ) since the p-code card is mostly a software card, wouldn't it be possible to create it in the TIPI?

pcode is an operating system.. it'd be more likely to be recreated in the finalgrom99 than the TIPI which is a file/network device :)

 

Greg

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To be able to run as it is, the p-system requires that it can house the ROM in the address space it normally uses, i.e. >4000 to >5FFF. The part in >4000 to >4FFF is fixed. Between >5000 and >5FFF it's bank switched by CRU bit >1F80.

Then it assumes it can access its GROM chips at the special GROM read address, which I've forgotten now, but it's inside the DSR space too (>5C00 maybe?), and available only when the p-code card is enabled via CRU bit >1F00.

 

Technically, the p-system can run at other places, with other GROM read addresses, but then you need to modify all address references in the program. Doable, but rather tedious and error-prone without the source code. Since there is a code repository for assembly code in the GROM too, that has to be modified as well, or the addresses in that code will not work.

Edited by apersson850
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To be able to run as it is, the p-system requires that it can house the ROM in the address space it normally uses, i.e. >4000 to >5FFF. The part in >4000 to >4FFF is fixed. Between >5000 and >5FFF it's bank switched by CRU bit >1F80.
Then it assumes it can access its GROM chips at the special GROM read address, which I've forgotten now, but it's inside the DSR space too (>5C00 maybe?), and available only when the p-code card is enabled via CRU bit >1F00.
 
Technically, the p-system can run at other places, with other GROM read addresses, but then you need to modify all address references in the program. Doable, but rather tedious and error-prone without the source code. Since there is a code repository for assembly code in the GROM too, that has to be modified as well, or the addresses in that code will not work.
Sounds like it's easier to build a new sidecar one with grom emu

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk

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update on my new PEB that I was going to try to get files on to. plugged it in and poof, smoke from the power supply & memory (which I shouldn't had in the box while testing). initial investigation blew some diodes, capacitors, etc... hopefully didn't blow some of the memory chips. it won't even come on now. 

well, time to tear it down and test eveerything.

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On 9/18/2019 at 9:57 AM, apersson850 said:

To be able to run as it is, the p-system requires that it can house the ROM in the address space it normally uses, i.e. >4000 to >5FFF. The part in >4000 to >4FFF is fixed. Between >5000 and >5FFF it's bank switched by CRU bit >1F80.

Then it assumes it can access its GROM chips at the special GROM read address, which I've forgotten now, but it's inside the DSR space too (>5C00 maybe?), and available only when the p-code card is enabled via CRU bit >1F00.

 

Technically, the p-system can run at other places, with other GROM read addresses, but then you need to modify all address references in the program. Doable, but rather tedious and error-prone without the source code. Since there is a code repository for assembly code in the GROM too, that has to be modified as well, or the addresses in that code will not work.

True. For completeness, GROMs map ONLY at adresses >5BFC (read data), >5BFE (read address), >5FFC (write data, not used) and >5FFE (write address).

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