Atari 7800 SD Cart (Concerto?)

[rocketmonkey101]

I'll echo the support for 7800 only compatibility. I have a Harmony cart so I'm good on the 2600 front. I'd be in line for anything you come out with Batari.

[+Mitch]

I would have to disagree. I think for most users 2600 compatibilty is a must.

 

Mitch

[Tempest]

22 minutes ago, Mitch said:

I would have to disagree. I think for most users 2600 compatibilty is a must.

Then they can get a Harmony cart to supplement it.  In the end I'd like a cart that can do both, but if that's going to hold up development I'd settle for a 7800 only cart.

[RevEng]

Nailing 7800 compatibility would do the trick, especially if dropping 2600 mode would reduce the overall hardware cost. For 2600 games, people can purchase another cart.

 

batari, for testing compatibility be sure to check out Trebor's 7800 ROM PROPack, which has roms with confirmed-good A78 headers. There are garbage roms with garbage headers elsewhere on the Internet. I've also updated the A78 header specification wiki entry with the latest info. Lastly, you can use 7800header, which is part of 7800basic and the 7800AsmDevKit to interrogate/add/strip a78 headers.

 

I shared it a while back, but in case you don't have it handy, here's a version of the 7800 Utility Cart that has a test to run CRC checks on all of the cart ROM pages in a continual loop, to ensure the cart bus and underlying medium is sound.

[Laner]

7 minutes ago, Tempest said:

Then they can get a Harmony cart to supplement it.  In the end I'd like a cart that can do both, but if that's going to hold up development I'd settle for a 7800 only cart.

Same here - there are several ways to play 2600 games without needing individual carts. Far fewer options for the 7800. 

[pmpddytim]

Looks like SainT is working on something too:

 

 

[+DrVenkman]

9 hours ago, overgrouth said:

Absolutly true! For example Kaboom! 2600 shows extra graphics on screen which are two pillars of dashed lines that change with the movement of the paddle. It is probibly a bit of code for the positioning of the paddle abd the 2600 sees this code as instructions where the 7800 seets it as instructions as well as graphics.

Uh, no. I just played KABOOM twice on my 7800 (through my Harmony Cart, no less). There are no spurious graphics at all on my system. I'd suggest you either have a failing TIA or 6532 RIOT chip in your 7800. 

[MrBeefy]

Screw 2600 compatibility. I don't own a Harmony or Uno and I think adding another layer of something to go wrong is a bad idea. Buy a 7800, and buy a Harmony and/or Uno. What should be critical is getting something worming for the 7800. 2600 has two viable options that will run on a 7800. We don't need a 3rd option as much as ONE option for 7800.

 

But that's just my opinion.

[+Kaboomer]

5 hours ago, Mitch said:

I would have to disagree. I think for most users 2600 compatibilty is a must.

No, not me. I already have 3 ways to play 2600 carts on SD and 0 on 7800.

 

I would definitely support 7800 only SD card support 

[Special Teams]

This all sounds very promising!  Don't need 2600 support since that would just make the Harmony redundant.

[+sramirez2008]

I think 2600 support would be ‘a nice to have’, but please don’t let that hold back development of a 7800 ‘only’ SD cart.

 

BTW, thanks for working on a solution.?

[Jinks]

Funny how sainT is working on it the same time Batari is back. 

That is how this always goes. Especially for the 7800 for some strange reason. 

Nobody is making the 7800 control NORAD like CPUWIZ tho.. ?

Edited September 25, 2019 by Jinks
Did not capitalize CPUWIZ. Felt showing dishonour

[overgrouth]

2 hours ago, DrVenkman said:

Uh, no. I just played KABOOM twice on my 7800 (through my Harmony Cart, no less). There are no spurious graphics at all on my system. I'd suggest you either have a failing TIA or 6532 RIOT chip in your 7800. 

I have two 7800 and they both do the same thing and I am uaing a real cartridge so I can try my Harminy cart and see if that goes away. Interesting none the less.

[scotty]

I am down for 1.  2600 would be nice, but if not, no big deal.

 

[Inky]

I just want a good SD card solution.  I love the Mateos, but an SD cart is so much easier to use.  Looking forward to both projects.

[scotty]

4 minutes ago, Inky said:

I just want a good SD card solution.  I love the Mateos, but an SD cart is so much easier to use.  Looking forward to both projects.

So true.   I wish I had an SD solution for by Bally Astrocade.

 

[+DrVenkman]

11 hours ago, overgrouth said:

I have two 7800 and they both do the same thing and I am uaing a real cartridge

I know I’ve used my 7800 with a real Kaboom cart without issue - it’s how I tested it to make sure paddle games worked with it. I’ll check again tonight but I’ve never heard of Kaboom being one of the few 2600 games people have issue with on the 7800 - the ones I hear discussed are generally Dark Caverns and Robot Tank. I don’t have a copy of 2600 Dark Caverns, and Robot Tank works fine on both my 7800’s.

 

That said, Fred has already said he wants to keep 2600 compatibility and he doesn’t see it as a big deal. We should all just leave him alone to make his vision come to pass.

 

[Master Phruby]

Well whoever comes up with a 7800 SD card needs to add a high score keeping battery and a pokey chip to the board. Maybe even some more ram.

[+sramirez2008]

1 hour ago, DrVenkman said:

That said, Fred has already said he wants to keep 2600 compatibility and he doesn’t see it as a big deal. We should all just leave him alone to make his vision come to pass.

You are correct!  I'm thankful that he wants to make this cart and he should make whatever he wants to.

 

No more from me on this topic.  Can't wait to see the results. 

[Tempest]

Honestly I don't care WHO comes up with the 7800 SD cart, I just want one.  Let there be competing ideas, the market will decide. 

[RevEng]

The problem with that, is it means that one of our hardware hobbyists will likely eat a significant monetary loss. Some years after selling the wildly popular 2600 Harmony, batari advised he hadn't broke even yet. Honestly, that news broke my heart. Same when I heard about CPUWIZ's heavy "investment" in components.

 

I'm totally fine with the mercenary risk+reward action of capitalism, but nobody has a chance of making real money off these very niche hobby products, so letting the market sort it out just means that someone will be punished for their charity.

 

I don't have a solution, but at least the info of both projects is public, and batari and SainT are big boys. If one of them withdraws, I wouldn't blame them one bit.

[Tempest]

32 minutes ago, RevEng said:

The problem with that, is it means that one of our hardware hobbyists will likely eat a significant monetary loss. Some years after selling the wildly popular 2600 Harmony, batari advised he hadn't broke even yet. Honestly, that news broke my heart. Same when I heard about CPUWIZ's heavy "investment" in components.

 

I'm totally fine with the mercenary risk+reward action of capitalism, but nobody has a chance of making real money off these very niche hobby products, so letting the market sort it out just means that someone will be punished for their charity.

I understand that part of it.  Nobody does this kind of thing to get rich.  On the other hand should everyone else stop working on something because someone else says "I've got it!"?  What if their idea never pans out?  It's been how many years since the CC2 was last available and no one has stepped up and released a replacement product (well Concerto did see a VERY limited beta run).  I'm willing to support whoever can get something out, be it Batari, SainT, CPUWIZ, or someone else.  

[orange808]

+1 on the flash cart.  Devs need an option to work on real hardware.

 

Off topic, but relevant (nevertheless):

The 7800 is also going to need RGB to move into immortality.  You take shots at me if you like.  You can shame me for not "fixing it myself".  Have at it.  Won't make what I'm saying any less true.

 

The 7800 needs an RGB mod if it's going to move ahead with a meaningful homebrew and enthusiast following.  Old guys like me and my CRTs won't be around forever.  We can lament the past and hate on the NES all we like, but the 7800 has a bleak future with only RF and composite video.

[Tempest]

2 hours ago, orange808 said:

 

ff topic, but relevant (nevertheless):

The 7800 is also going to need RGB to move into immortality.  You take shots at me if you like.  You can shame me for not "fixing it myself".  Have at it.  Won't make what I'm saying any less true.

 

The 7800 needs an RGB mod if it's going to move ahead with a meaningful homebrew and enthusiast following.  Old guys like me and my CRTs won't be around forever.  We can lament the past and hate on the NES all we like, but the 7800 has a bleak future with only RF and composite video.

Huh, I thought there was a 7800 RGB mod, but no I guess not.  If the 2600 can be RGB modded you'd think the 7800 could.  I would say it's due to lack of interest, but it seems like they'll RGB mod anything that moves these days.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

4 minutes ago, Tempest said:

Huh, I thought there was a 7800 RGB mod, but no I guess not.  If the 2600 can be RGB modded you'd think the 7800 could.  I would say it's due to lack of interest, but it seems like they'll RGB mod anything that moves these days.

I think the biggest issue with an RGB mod for the 7800 is the fact that you have two sets of video colorburts to sort through with the 2600 and 7800 color on two different lines. So what ends up working or looking good from the 2600 side might not look right on the 7800 and require additional stuff and switches to flip between them or something like that. I thought Mr. Worthington had been working on something for the 7800 but not sure the status or it was actually someone else?