The Mr. Video Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Hi, I have this copy of Bandits in my Atari 8-bit floppy collection. Out of curiosity, I ran a directory listing on the b-side of the disk in DOS 2.5 to see if anything was written on that side. Surely enough, there is some kind of data written to that side. It seems to be some kind of garbage data. When I would try to boot the Atari XL through the b-side, it would load for a few seconds, and then soft-lock, no "BOOT ERROR" message or anything. The disk itself has a write protected b-side this data must have been written to the disk during the duplication process. Does anybody know what this data might be? Also if you just so happen to have a floppy disk copy of Bandits, does it also have data written on the b-side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Do you have the means to sector copy and post an ATR image of the disk? Other DOS's put their directory/VTOC info in different places on disks compared to DOS 2 and it's variants, ie SpartaDOS, DOS XL/XE, OS A+, etc. It's also possible for software to just write raw data to sectors as needed. Many commercial boot disks have no directory, and just boot from the beginning of the disk in a linear fashion. (Not in this case as you mentioned you get "BOOT ERROR") Write protected disks (and disk sides) can easily be written to without notching by modifying the drive to bypass the optical sensor. For example, In the 1050 it is as simple as putting a jumper on pin 2 & 3 of J11. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mr. Video Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 Just now, Nezgar said: Do you have the means to sector copy and post an ATR image of the disk? Unfortunately, I don't have a method of dumping disks into .atr files. Where can I find instructions on how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 6 hours ago, The Mr. Video said: Unfortunately, I don't have a method of dumping disks into .atr files. Where can I find instructions on how? The cheapest and simplest prebuilt starter-device is Lotharek's SIO2PC-USB device: https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=108 This allows the PC (or mac, linux) to act as a "virtual drive" to the Atari using free software such as AspeQT or RespeQt. You can download a sector copier disk image, boot the Atari from that (having the PC emulate Drive D1: and the real 1050 as drive 2 using the slider switches on the back.) - then mount a virtual "blank" disk in the PC in D1:. Then use the program booted on the Atari to copy all sectors from the real disk in D2: to the virtual D1:. When you save the resulting virtual disk to an ATR, this can be uploaded and shared online for inspection. You can also make a cable yourself, here's a good walkthrough: There's also a plethora of stand-alone drive emulators that operate off of a memory card. Take a look through this thread which covers all of the current options: https://atariage.com/forums/topic/176545-topic-for-newbies/ 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mr. Video Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 Anybody know where I can buy the usb to serial cable used in the video? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariGeezer Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 20 minutes ago, The Mr. Video said: Anybody know where I can buy the usb to serial cable used in the video? https://www.ebay.com/itm/383086031628 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandit Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 This is in the US and price is about equal, I bought this one and made cable and it works . https://www.ebay.com/itm/PL2303HX-USB-to-TTL-RS232-COM-UART-Module-Serial-Cable-Adapter-for-Arduino/322619331980 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 13 minutes ago, bandit said: This is in the US and price is about equal, I bought this one and made cable and it works . https://www.ebay.com/itm/PL2303HX-USB-to-TTL-RS232-COM-UART-Module-Serial-Cable-Adapter-for-Arduino/322619331980 That one is terrible. There MUST be a Command line for proper operation, especially with other devices. Also, make sure it's a genuine or 100% compatible FTDI chip. Look for one like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/383086031628 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mr. Video Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 Just bought the FTDI usb to serial cable. I'll build the SIO2USB cable as soon as it gets delivered and dump the contents of the b-side soon after. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Thanks - I didn't realise USB DIY options were so cheap now - so just ordered a cable locally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Kyle22 said: There MUST be a Command line for proper operation, especially with other devices. I believe I read that you're also limited to 19200, no ultraspeed rates without a command line as well, even if it is the only device. The one in Nir's video I believe is only 3 or 4- wires and would suffer these issues, but I think part of the point of the video was to show the absolute minimum required to function. But the FTDI 6 wire cables are pretty much the same price.. Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mr. Video Posted October 11, 2019 Author Share Posted October 11, 2019 So I built the cable and dumped the disk using Disk Wizard II. It says that the b-side is full of bad sectors. It may just be some corrupt data, but here is the .atr file if you want to take a look at it. b-side.atr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madi Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 37 minutes ago, The Mr. Video said: So I built the cable and dumped the disk using Disk Wizard II. It says that the b-side is full of bad sectors. It may just be some corrupt data, but here is the .atr file if you want to take a look at it. b-side.atr 90.02 kB · 4 downloads The copy has no data. All zeros madi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 I'd test that cable out with a few more sector copy tries from other know good disk before I'd make claim the disk is bad, did you clean the heads on the drive... did you clean the disk surface using just humid air and q tip method? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mr. Video Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) Ok actually, when I try it with a disk that I know works, it still says it has bad sectors. I think it is trying to read from respeQt's virtual drive and not my actual 1050. Is there a way to prevent that from happening? Edited October 12, 2019 by The Mr. Video Clarifiy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 (edited) make sure the drive you are using to grab the sector copy from is on a different ID than the disk you are sending the sector copy to. If you have drive 2 as the source... then respeqt's drive 2 slot needs to have NO ATR/FOLDER/IMAGE/PCLINK of any kind in that ID slot... it must be empty.. Edited October 12, 2019 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mr. Video Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 11 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said: make sure the drive you are using to grab the sector copy from is on a different ID than the disk you are sending the sector copy to. If you have drive 2 as the source... then respeqt's drive 2 slot needs to have NO ATR/FOLDER/IMAGE/PCLINK of any kind in that ID slot... it must be empty.. I was sure that the second virtual drive was empty, and I made sure that the 1050 was not set to drive 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 (edited) Empty slots should not be interfering with anything else on the SIO chain, I'd say set your real drive as ID 1 (source) and make sure all slot on respeqt are empty, then put a blank atr into respeqt slot 2, sector copy from drive 1 to drive 2, make sure to have respeqt write the changes to the disk when done (you have to select if it should write to the disk, or tell it to save the changes to the atr when done, depending on setup and version) Edited October 13, 2019 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mr. Video Posted October 13, 2019 Author Share Posted October 13, 2019 6 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said: I'd say set your real drive as ID 1 (source) and make sure all slot on respeqt are empty, then put a blank atr into respeqt slot 2, sector copy from drive 1 to drive 2, make sure to have respeqt write the changes to the disk when done (you have to select if it should write to the disk, or tell it to save the changes to the atr when done, depending on setup and version) How will I be able to load Disk Wizard II to the Atari then? I have to load it through RespeQt, and the Atari can only boot to drive 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 5 hours ago, The Mr. Video said: How will I be able to load Disk Wizard II to the Atari then? I have to load it through RespeQt, and the Atari can only boot to drive 1. Once disk wizard II is booted, "eject" it from the virtual Drive 1 slot in RespeQt, and mount a new virtual blank disk in the slot instead. Then copy from D2 as source (the real drive), and D1 as destination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 yep once the copier is loaded and ready to go empty the slot on respeqt... you can then choose to copy from real disk in 1 to respeqt slot 2 etc... but remember to have it set up to save in real time or save the changes of the ATR when done... Nezgar has the right idea in this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mr. Video Posted October 19, 2019 Author Share Posted October 19, 2019 On 10/13/2019 at 3:46 PM, _The Doctor__ said: yep once the copier is loaded and ready to go empty the slot on respeqt... you can then choose to copy from real disk in 1 to respeqt slot 2 etc... but remember to have it set up to save in real time or save the changes of the ATR when done... Nezgar has the right idea in this... Tried this and it did not work. In fact, If the cable is plugged in to the drive, then the Atari won't read from it, even if RespeQt isn't running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Sounds like you have RespeQt and the 1050 both set as drive 1? They will both respond and nothing will work. Need each set with a unique drive #. Whatever the real drive is, should be an "empty" drive in respeqt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mr. Video Posted October 19, 2019 Author Share Posted October 19, 2019 (edited) Ok I managed to make it work. What I did is that I set both the source and destination drive to drive #1. When Disk Wizard prompted for the source disk, I unplugged the SIO2PC cable, turn on the 1050, and let it read the disk. Then when it prompts for the back up disk, I turn the 1050 off, plug in the SIO2PC cable, insert a blank disk image into virtual drive #1, and let it save. Anyway, here's the image. Bandits_B_Side_Complete.atr Edited October 19, 2019 by The Mr. Video Didn't realize it I had to swap disk multiple times, Added the complete version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Looks like its a failed copy attempt of 1983 Epyx Summer Games according to telling text in sectors 17, 36, 44, 45, 249, etc. It fails booting with a double-read of sector 19, so most likely the software protection check is expecting a bad sector there on the original disk. It would have had to be copied using a Happy drive for instance, not a stock 810 or 1050 as was likely in this case. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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