Raiders of the Lost Ark

[AAA177]

I've always liked Raiders of the Lost Ark and found its presentation very cool/neat. Just two issues: wish the whip was a whip and the spider looked like a spider. But I place emphasis on the former because the latter is more easily imagined. 

 

Curious if the programmer has ever said in interviews, or been asked at conventions, why he did the whip like that. I can't imagine it couldn't have been accomplished. Even a straight line either extending out or quickly appearing in full might have been graphically interesting. Not criticizing, by the way, just curious; I assume it may have been some sort of tradeoff, but even though I don't program, it's hard for me to comprehend as the whip is arguably one of the more vital parts of the character. Great game, and I hope to see it on a Flashback someday, somehow...

[Nukey Shay]

The whip, bullet, and grappling hook use the ball sprite...which is a single pixel.  This sprite is used because if one of the 2 8-bit sprites were used instead (to draw a bitmapped line), it would introduce flicker wherever the Indy sprite is interacting with another object on the same horizontal plane.  So yeah, it is a compromise in that regard.

 

It is possible to draw lines using the ball or missiles, but that would require a much more complex display...especially since the "whip" or bullet can be travelling in 8 possible directions.  It would need HM's wherever the line representing the whip are drawn in addition to altering CTRLPF to be able to stretch the ball horizontally.  Much simpler to use the single pixel of the ball to represent the business end of the whip...the same as what is done for a gun's bullet and the grapple.

 

BTW I hacked Raiders to work for the AFP.  Kinda difficult to play on it's dinky screen, tho.

Edited October 5, 2019 by Nukey Shay

[ultima]

   This would be a interesting game to remake. It does not follow the movie plot so I could see a lot of interesting content that could be added in a reboot.

 

   Off the top of my head the fight with the bald german guy would be a boss fight.  The whole smash the truck into other vehicles trying to steal the arc could be done in a spy hunter style level. The movie intro escaping the rolling boulder would be great. The fight at Marion's bar...damn lots of missed opportunities.

[AAA177]

@Nukey Shay Thanks for the explanation. I think I understood most of it. That's too bad that there was such limitation on it. Like I say, really like that game overall except for the whip, but in the end it's not such a big deal. I'm glad it was at able to be as engaging and full of depth as it is. Definitely a gem for me. I will check out your version.

 

Ultima, those are great ideas. Makes me want to see it now on an Atari 7800 or Atari computer (I assume your ideas would have to be on a more advanced Atari). Of course, if you meant simply a remake on a modern console, yeah that would be cool too. 

[keithbk]

Remember, the initial design of the Atari VCS was based on PONG and its various iterations.

 

Therefore, you had this basic structure for all graphic elements:

 

Background

Foreground

Player 1 (8 Line Sprite)

Player 2 (8 Line Sprite)

Ball

Missile 1

Missile 2

 

Everything created for the Atari had to function within (or find workarounds for) these hardware limitations.

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by keithbk

[Supergun]

7 hours ago, keithbk said:

Remember, the initial design of the Atari VCS was based on PONG and its various iterations.

 

Therefore, you had this basic structure for all graphic elements:

 

Background

Foreground

Player 1 (8 Line Sprite)

Player 2 (8 Line Sprite)

Ball

Missile 1

Missile 2

 

Everything created for the Atari had to function within (or find workarounds for) these hardware limitations.

 

 

 

Just quoting this for preservation.

 

It’s easy to forget the above when you’ve seen & played so many incredible games on the 2600.

 

The Atari 2600 programmer had to have an incredible imagination, coupled with a highly specialized technical proficiency, wrapped up with a relentless determination.

 

(and serious sleep deprivation too)

[zzip]

20 hours ago, AAA177 said:

@Nukey Shay Thanks for the explanation. I think I understood most of it. That's too bad that there was such limitation on it. Like I say, really like that game overall except for the whip, but in the end it's not such a big deal. I'm glad it was at able to be as engaging and full of depth as it is. Definitely a gem for me. I will check out your version.

 

Ultima, those are great ideas. Makes me want to see it now on an Atari 7800 or Atari computer (I assume your ideas would have to be on a more advanced Atari). Of course, if you meant simply a remake on a modern console, yeah that would be cool too. 

Somebody did port it to the Atari 8-bit,  but it seems to be a straight port with identical graphics and no additional features.

[CapitanClassic]

On 10/7/2019 at 10:04 PM, keithbk said:

Remember, the initial design of the Atari VCS was based on PONG and its various iterations.

 

Therefore, you had this basic structure for all graphic elements:

 

Background

Foreground

Player 1 (8 Line Sprite)

Player 2 (8 Line Sprite)

Ball

Missile 1

Missile 2

 

Everything created for the Atari had to function within (or find workarounds for) these hardware limitations.

 

 

 

Not exactly, not just PONG and the various  iterations (4-player, etc). It was designed to play Tank and Jet Fighter (Combat essentially) as well as a handful of other yet undesigned games. PONG wouldn’t require any missile graphics, and you could argue that instead of a completely customizable 8-bit player graphic, the paddles could be displayed by less configurable missle graphic 1x, 2x, 4x. You need the player and missile graphics to make Tank/Jet Fighter.

 

 

Quote

They saw Jet Fighter and Tank, but instead of designing a custom chip for each game, as was done for Pong, they planned a system that would play both games, four-player Pong if anyone was interested, and possibly a few other, as yet unknown games. The system was to be based on a microprocessor.

In a few months, Atari's designers in Grass Valley, Calif., had made a working prototype, and over the next year, designers from Grass Valley and from Sunnyvale, Calif., refined what was to be the Atari Video Computer System (VCS).

 

http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/2600/atari_case_history.html

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by CapitanClassic

[keithbk]

Agreed; it was the next step from Pong with a couple of additional features. INCREDIBLY restrictive in capabilities compared to future gaming systems.

[stepho]

Restrictive is when you are not allow to access something that is there.

Other systems give you nanny chips that you ask to do something on your behalf.

The VCS gives you access to practically everything in any combination that you can dream up.
Which is how homebrew games still manage to come up with payable games after 40 years.

 

It's a bit like having a F1 car that you can only drive on a race track vs a Yugo that you can drive almost anywhere (except possibly to a Mustang auto show).
One is very powerful but very restrictive.
The other is not powerful but not restrictive.
Which one can you drive to the local shops?

[keithbk]

The limitations are based on the architecture itself. 

 

It restricts creativity because there is only so far you can push the system. That's not to say you cannot be creative, it's just that when I program a game, there are certain ideas I cannot fully realize because the system cannot be stretched that far.

 

For example, there are certain elements of Another Adventure that I could imagine in my head, but I couldn't pull off due to the hardware's own limitations. Therefore, it WAS restrictive.

[Supergun]

Would these limitations have been “lessened”, making the 2600 “more powerful”, had Atari not cheap skated with a 6502 rather then using the true 6507. ?

[high voltage]

I always wondered why Atari didn't release a Pong cartridge for the VCS, instead of a Video Olympics. Video Olympics is more a sports cart really.

[schuwalker]

I too love this game to this day.

 

Two things I would like fixed (non-graphics-related)

 

Spider room - wish this room was incorporated in the game more, basically not just a decoy

 

Scoring issue fixed - we know this game code (released version) has been gone through pedantically for any items/secrets not found. Fix the scoring issue where it doesn't involve Jerome's hidden initials.

 

Can the bottom issue be fixable?

[+save2600]

5 hours ago, high voltage said:

I always wondered why Atari didn't release a Pong cartridge for the VCS, instead of a Video Olympics. Video Olympics is more a sports cart really.

They must have figured simply labeling a cartridge 'Pong' wouldn't have sold as well. Video Olympics is more exciting, has more personality and tells the consumer they can look forward to some variety in gameplay in the form of different "events". Soccer, Foozpong, Hockey, Basketball, Handball, etc.

 

'Video Olympics' as a title and cartridge was pretty clever in dressing up plain old Pong. Good progression if you ask me.