Question for the 5200 experts

[classicgamer74]

I have a few questions about the Atari 5200, as I never owned one.  I know that one of the complaints about the 5200 was that you couldn't play 2600 games on it.  I read somewhere that an adapter was made so that you could.  Was that made back in the day or more recently?

 

I heard that the biggest problem with the 5200 was that there were issues with the hardware (the system itself, joysticks, etc).  How much truth is there to that?  

 

If you were going to tell someone to give the 5200 another chance, what reasons would you give?

 

Thanks, guys!  I'll give credit to the answers given in a forth-coming episode on my channel. 

[+DamonicFury]

The 2600 adapter was made back in the day.  It works well, but a modification needs to be made to the motherboard for the original 4-port machines before it will work.  Atari did this mod for users back in the day.

 

Certainly the biggest problem with owning a 5200 today is the joysticks.  Odds are that if you pick up a system on EBay or a yard sale, the buttons on those joysticks simply won’t work.  It seems the little conductive dots that make contact with the circuit board just stop working with time.  Cleaning them provides a very temporary fix, while gluing dots made of aluminum foil provides a longer lasting solution.  Best Electronics makes gold plated circuits and dots that will permanently fix the problem, but naturally that’s a pricy solution.  Even completely fixed, those joysticks aren’t great... the joysticks don’t self-center and the side mounted fire buttons cause cramping for many users.  There are also third party joysticks that were made back in the day that work much better, but those are also somewhat rare and expensive now.  Finally, there are both vintage and modern adapters that let you use 2600 or Sega controllers instead of the original ones, but again, these are somewhat expensive, plus they won't work with the handful of games that require analog input.
 

As crummy as the joysticks are, they may not have been the system’s biggest problem back in the day.   More likely, the initial lackluster library of games is what really sunk it.  While Coleco provided a great library of newer arcade conversions that had never come home before, Atari had a smaller selection that mostly had already come out on the 2600.  Even worse, the Colecovision came with the super popular Donkey Kong packed in, while the 5200 came with the far older and less popular Super Breakout game.  The 5200’s library would eventually expand to become quite respectable, but by then it was far too late.  
 

It’s admittedly a tough sell to convince someone today to try the 5200!  A strong argument can be made that almost all of the same games can be played on one of the excellent Atari 8-bit computers, which share the same internal architecture, but use standard 2600 joysticks instead.  At best, I can say that the 5200 is a joy to use once different joysticks are obtained.  (Also, its TrackBall controller is wonderful for the handful of games that use it.) It looks great, and the large cartridges are very satisfying to plug and unplug.  The game library is quite good, with very few duds.  And most of that library can be collected relatively cheaply, with only one game that’s seriously rare (Bounty Bob Strikes Back.)  I personally love it, but it’s probably mostly a system for collectors and hardcore Atari enthusiasts now. 
 

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

As @DamonicFury stated above...

 

However, I do own most of the 3rd party controller options and yet, I sill prefer to play most of the game with original 5200 controllers. If you have the controllers refurbished as was stated above (I use the foil dot method myself), and have them properly calibrated with your 5200 console, then they actually work quite well at that point. Most of the games on the 5200 were indeed released for the 8-bit line of computers as well. There are few exclusives such as Space Dungeon which is one of the games that really shines with a pair of good original 5200 controllers.

 

Missile Command is darn near like playing the arcade with a trakball controller on the 5200. Really impressive conversion and honestly the best home port of Missile Command along with Centipede. 

I originally grew up with the 2600 and late a 7800 back in the day. But I can easily say that the 5200 and 7800 are my two favorite Atari consoles and I even own a few of the 8-bit computers.

 

[+DamonicFury]

45 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

However, I do own most of the 3rd party controller options and yet, I sill prefer to play most of the game with original 5200 controllers. If you have the controllers refurbished as was stated above (I use the foil dot method myself), and have them properly calibrated with your 5200 console, then they actually work quite well at that point.

I absolutely should have mentioned that some folks like the standard 5200 controllers just fine once they're fixed.  The non-centering joysticks and side-mounted fire buttons are dealbreakers for some of us, but for others, they don't present a problem.

 

I really feel that Atari would have been far better off making a real 'arcade' style controller since nearly all of their 5200 games were arcade conversions and they were marketing the systems as being 'just like the arcade.'  But they chose instead to make a controller that was similar to the Intellivision's in an attempt to match that system feature-for-feature.    

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Don't get me wrong my preference for quite a few of the arcade titles is to use my AA redemption paired with my Wico command keypad and Genesis 3 button controller. But Star Raiders, Star Wars:TAG, Gorf, The Last Starfighter and a few others are best with the original CX52 controller. Centipede, Tempest, Missile Command, and Xari Arena are best with the CX-53 trak-ball. So between those three combinations I'm pretty much set. I do have Wico controllers for the 5200, but 2 of them have broken axis locks on them so they flop around in one direction and require constant re-centering between games. Plus I don't find them that comfortable to use.

[+Cafeman]

I have a Wico controller and I actually prefer the joystick of the original CX52.  The buttons on the Wico save your thumbs though, the  default CX52 mushy buttons really tire out the hand on some games. 

 

My favorite is to just use my Masterplay Interface with a Genesis 6-button controller for all the games except the analog games like Star Raiders, Missile Command, or Centipede. 

[sirlynxalot]

Here's another person recently interested in the 5200. Some questions by me. 

 

Is the numeric keypad widely used for games or is it really only required for a handful of titles? 

 

If I had a third party joystick I assume those are digital. Does that mean it won't work at all with games that I assume are analogue like missile command breakout and kaboom? 

 

Rubber tends to atrophy and break down with age.  Is that a problem with the 5200 stock joystick that would make the joystick unusable? I'd assume so but don't see this mentioned as an issue. 

 

Is there any special challenge to picking up the 5200s rf signal on eg tvs made in the last 15 years that have cable jacks? If other systems can be picked up such as nes could I expect the 5200 would as well? I mostly ask bc I've heard the 7800s signal is not always picked up. 

 

Do 5200s often need cap replacements at this point? 

 

What would be a good price for a working system these days? Things seem to have shot up significantly on eBay.  Is 70 bucks plus shipping about the going rate? 

 

Thank you! 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

@sirlynxalot Here are my answers but I'd encourage others to jump in also..

 

- Keypad is used by most games for difficulty and number of players selection at minimum. There are several games that use more of the buttons of course like Star Raiders.

- The Wico controller is analog since it has adjusters on it to center it from game to game for both the X and Y axis. But it is also auto centering unlike the original controllers. Again, I'm not a fan of these as I think they are fragile as heck internally.

- The only rubber to worry about on the original controllers is the boot around the controller joystick itself. But since the joystick doesn't self center, the boot isn't 100% needed other than to make it all look prettier. Now the boot is supposed to provide some rigidity to compensate for the lack of self centering but again...null issue.

- I don't have any issues picking up the Rf on the 5200 on my modern TVs that I've tried it with. Same as the 7800, 2600, etc...just plug it in, turn it on with a game so the 5200 it outputting an RF signal from the cable and set your TV to Scan for stations on the Ant setting and not Cable.

- There are only like 3 caps at most in the 5200 as far as electrolytic and they do not require frequent replacing. I've only replaced the caps on one 5200 ever and it didn't need it. Just did it because the client insisted I do so. The only cap I routinely replace in the 5200 is when doing the power mod on the 4 port units. But technically you could still use the cap it came with, just most people swap it with a newer one since they are already in there and using the original will require installing the diode on the bottom of the system or some other way since the original cap is 3 posts instead of 2 and much larger.

- Good price for a working system with everything to get up and going is depending on the market of course. But if the system looks good and has everything then $70 + shipping is about right. Shipping is expensive since the 5200 is a beast though as compared to most other consoles.

 

 

[sirlynxalot]

Silly question.  Will an Atari lynx fit in the controller storage compartment? 

[Giles N]

16 hours ago, classicgamer74 said:

I have a few questions about the Atari 5200, as I never owned one.  I know that one of the complaints about the 5200 was that you couldn't play 2600 games on it.  I read somewhere that an adapter was made so that you could.  Was that made back in the day or more recently?

 

I heard that the biggest problem with the 5200 was that there were issues with the hardware (the system itself, joysticks, etc).  How much truth is there to that?  

 

If you were going to tell someone to give the 5200 another chance, what reasons would you give?

The original controllers are unorthodox and more like flight-sticks...

 

They do come with poor production-quality.

 

But: 

1. If buy a 5200 as retro-console today, you can get refurbished controllers where the low-quality things are exchanged with more enduring connnections. You can, if you invest money, time or some effort, find: 3rd party joysticks, or find an interface making standard Sega Genesis and the like type controllers to work with it, or get PC-joysticks from the 90ies to work via cables. But lets say you only get the refurbished original controller, is it worth it?

—>

2. Which depend on which kind of game would make you tick for this generation of consoles.

If you like games like ‘Resque on Fractulus’ (cockpit 3D shooter/land-and-resque-game), Pole Position, Star Wars Arcade (part shooter on rail, part flight-shooter), - or can master typical arcade-games from 1978-1984 with analogue stick, then there’s a small, but in my view, high-quality library of games you can play on it.

There are also quite exclusive combinations of home-gameplay if you get the trackball for Missile Command, Super Breakout, and other games.

3. The graphics and sound and cpu-performance are all, in my view, very good for homesystem released in 1982. 

4. Since the system was discontinued in 84, modern retro-gaming have retrieved unreleased games, made new games for it and ported from parallel homecomputer-systems, so the library is now much bigger than when Atari left it to its own in 84.

5. So, I would look through videos of actual Atari 5200 gameplay and titles, and see if this generation and/or type games make you tic.

It made me, - and after some irksome stuff with Am-Euro compatibilites both for electricity and CRT TVs, - I’m now very happy with the set-up, with the console and its titles; for the era ‘early eighties’, they are really cool stuff...

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Giles N

[+DrVenkman]

Regarding the 5200 controller situation ...

 

Assuming you don't want to use refurbed stock joysticks (and I'm one of them), there are options that work well and are inexpensive if you're handy with a soldering iron. User @smbaker has designed several boards for this purpose. For the usual 4-way and 8-way joystick games, his Masterplay clone board works very well. You can connect a standard 9-pin Atari controller or a 3-button Genesis pad to your 5200 using these. There's a second FIRE button integrated into the keypad unit for games that support it (such as DEFENDER) or with a Genesis pad, the second FIRE button is also usable on the "C" button. Here are the two I built, mounted to some acrylic pieces.

 

Another of his boards is a thumbstick controller board. I built a pair of these last year and used them screwed to a simple wooden base for months. Despite the unconventional look (and the wooden base!) it works very, very well for 4-way type games but the thumbstick is an analog controller and self-centers. So it works very well for a game like STAR RAIDERS just as well a game like PAC-MAN or JOUST. However, the self-centering is not good for games like MISSILE COMMAND or CENTIPEDE (but that's what  Trak-Ball is for ).

 

However, these do require you to be able to build the controller yourself. However, in another week or two, my business partner and I expect to have a batch of these, complete with 3D-printed cases and buttons. This is a representative case as to the overall shape and ergonomics. Production shells going forward will be revised to eliminate the word "ATARI" and the Fuji - the current entity calling itself Atari has enough on their plate; I don't intend to give them more to do by chasing after hobbyists trying to help the community by selling what it wants and giving them free pub along the way.  So look for a post in the coming weeks when we put these complete controllers on sale. Alternately, my partner does sell just the shells and buttons on his eBay store and that will continue for those who source the boards and parts from Scott and build controllers themselves. 

 

[Giles N]

8 hours ago, sirlynxalot said:

Here's another person recently interested in the 5200. Some questions by me. 

 

Is the numeric keypad widely used for games or is it really only required for a handful of titles? 

 

If I had a third party joystick I assume those are digital. Does that mean it won't work at all with games that I assume are analogue like missile command breakout and kaboom? 

 

Rubber tends to atrophy and break down with age.  Is that a problem with the 5200 stock joystick that would make the joystick unusable? I'd assume so but don't see this mentioned as an issue. 

 

Is there any special challenge to picking up the 5200s rf signal on eg tvs made in the last 15 years that have cable jacks? If other systems can be picked up such as nes could I expect the 5200 would as well? I mostly ask bc I've heard the 7800s signal is not always picked up. 

 

Do 5200s often need cap replacements at this point? 

 

What would be a good price for a working system these days? Things seem to have shot up significantly on eBay.  Is 70 bucks plus shipping about the going rate? 

 

Thank you! 

The numeric keypad is used mostly on the title-screen where you use * or # to select 1/2 player or difficulty level. On the original controller there are also separate buttons for ‘start’, ‘pause’, ‘reset’, which means that using a 3rd Party joystick still needs a socalled Y-split-cable to connect both joystick and org.controller into port 1 or 2 (or 3 or 4 also if old model of console).

 

Buying a quality refurbished org.controller, is at least the quickest way to start your gaming.

 

Digital 3rd party joysticks give digital input, no in-betweens. 

 

On games such as Missile Command and Star Wars Arcade, its detrimental to gameplay, while on many platformer and shoot-em-ups digital is much better.

 

Best is to get both options if you can well, pay and find/make the stuff

 

Rubber gets old: but refurbished controllers get new rubber. Its not just for cars.

 

RF signal was way too weak for my brothers modern flatscreen, so I went for CRT TV which gives a much more softened-up picture, and much more like the arcade-screens of 80ies.

 

My brothers flatscreen plays Sega-master and 7800 signal.

Did not read 5200 signal clearly.

I guess it depends on your TV-type.

 

There exists A/V-modded 5200-units that can be bought on say eBay.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Giles N

[+Ryan Witmer]

I'd like to add that the 5200 is, in my esteemed opinion, the best looking game console ever designed.  Even if you never play the thing, it's worth having one sitting out because it just looks so cool.

 

I would say that it's also the only place to play RealSports Curling, but some ne'er-do-wells went and ported it to the Atari computers.

[Cobra Kai]

The simple fact is the 5200 is a hobbyist console. Expect to put time and money into one to get the most out of it. 

[ledzep]

On 10/8/2019 at 12:33 AM, classicgamer74 said:

If you were going to tell someone to give the 5200 another chance, what reasons would you give?

 

• The trak-ball controller is probably the greatest version ever made for home consoles (because it feels like an arcade trak-ball, has 2 fire buttons and the keypad) and immediately makes Missile Command and Centipede the best home versions ever
• Star Raiders (better with an analog stick)
• Tempest (it's fucking Tempest!)
• The paddle controllers (convert joysticks yourself or pay someone for them) are wonderful for games like Super Breakout and Kaboom!

 

There are other reasons but those are tops for me.

[dj_convoy]

16 minutes ago, ledzep said:

 

• The trak-ball controller is probably the greatest version ever made for home consoles (because it feels like an arcade trak-ball, has 2 fire buttons and the keypad) and immediately makes Missile Command and Centipede the best home versions ever
• Star Raiders (better with an analog stick)
• Tempest (it's fucking Tempest!)
• The paddle controllers (convert joysticks yourself or pay someone for them) are wonderful for games like Super Breakout and Kaboom!

 

There are other reasons but those are tops for me.

All good reasons. Assuming you have two controllers in decent working order, you'd also be hard pressed to find better versions of Robotron and Space Dungeon, as well (unless you have the Taito Collections on PS2). 

[ledzep]

38 minutes ago, dj_convoy said:

All good reasons. Assuming you have two controllers in decent working order, you'd also be hard pressed to find better versions of Robotron and Space Dungeon, as well (unless you have the Taito Collections on PS2). 

 

True, those were lesser reasons for me but still good.  Ya, get at least one of those games boxed so you can have the plastic dual-stick holder thing (I bought the 8-bit version of Robotron boxed so I could have that version's twin joystick holder, too http://retro-treasures.blogspot.com/2011/11/robotron-for-atari-8-bit.html ).  I actually prefer playing those games as two-player games, meaning one player drives, the other shoots.  Way more fun, and way more frustrating/challenging, hahaaha.

[Cobra Kai]

Eh. I do like Space Dungeon, but as far as Robotron goes, I spent a lot of time with it during this years High Score Club and set the record. It's got many problems. It's ok, but I wouldn't list it as a reason to get a 5200 console. The 7800 game is much better.

 

I agree on the Trak-Ball, that's a pretty great argument for the 5200. 

[classicgamer74]

Thanks, guys.  I appreciate all your input. 

[Cobra Kai]

22 minutes ago, classicgamer74 said:

Thanks, guys.  I appreciate all your input. 

OK, I just want to expand on what I mean by 'hobbyist console'. So, let's say you buy a used 5200, one that has not had any upgrades or any fixes to the joysticks. You should expect to do these things:

 

• Video mod/ upgrade to S-video or better (note: video mods ruin the ability to use the VCS Adaptor)
• Joystick repair or upgrade kit (gold dot connector kit is the best rebuild kit you can get at $50)
• You may have to open the console to calibrate the joystick pots inside (not difficult)
• You may also tweak the color timing pot while you're in there (not difficult)
• Seek out alternative controllers (recommended but $$$$)
• Power adaptor has a fuse inside that can blow (difficult to fix, but new ones can be had easily)

Just a few things I could think of that I've dealt with. I've had mine since the 1980's and it seems like I've done regular upgrades and repairs over all these years. Don't let that scare you off. It's not like you'd constantly be screwing with it, but it does need proper care.

 

I actually have a spare 5200 with an S-video mod I could part with. I also have a stock controller but without a rebuild. PM me if interested.

[+Cafeman]

I have never seen the need for a video mod, because I run the 5200 RF into one of my old VCRs, and run the VCR RCA composite directly to my flat screen.  Looks solid with no interference.  

[Giles N]

23 hours ago, Cafeman said:

I have never seen the need for a video mod, because I run the 5200 RF into one of my old VCRs, and run the VCR RCA composite directly to my flat screen.  Looks solid with no interference.  

You’re lucky to have an old VCR.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2019 by Giles N

[Lynxpro]

The 5200 is the most stylish looking console of all time. It's as if Bang & Olafsson [sic] designed its case.

 

Just about every "problem" with the 5200 which led to its cancellation was due to Warner's interference. Atari's engineers wanted the 5200 to be backwards-compatible with the 2600. The Warner picked management team dismissed it by stating consumers wanting to buy the most advanced console wouldn't want to play their old games on it.

 

Atari's engineers wanted the joysticks to self-center from the start. Warner's picked management team said "no".

 

Despite all of the problems with the 5200, it was catching up with Colecovision's sales and was projected to ultimately surpass it but then Warner forced Atari Inc to cancel the 5200 in favor of the 7800 that GCC was designing. Although very powerful, the 7800 was a cost-reduced console that was much cheaper to manufacturer than the 5200 was [whether or not the "5100" "5200 jr" would've made it to the market place].

 

The cancellation of the 5200 led Atari Inc to also cancel Dan Kramer's in-progress ProLine Controller additions. He was working on a 5200 Driving Controller [based upon Atari's Pole Position arcade controls] and planned to do a 5200 Yoke Controller [based upon Atari's Star Wars arcade yoke] after that. The 5200's cancellation also scrapped plans for an actual arcade quality joystick too, a 5200 Kids' Controller, a 5200 Musical Keyboard, and other accessories. Atari Inc had also designed a self-centering joystick, the CX52L, but it wasn't released and the later Atari Corp apparently forgot about it too. 

 

The best reasons to own the 5200 today are its awesome CX53 Trak-Ball Controller [designed by Dan Kramer], the AtariMax SD Cartridge Adapter, several A/V Mods including the RGB mods, and numerous adapters for using different controllers with it. A lot of unreleased titles from the bygone era have been released, most famously Tempest which the original 5200 programmer Keithen Hayenga finished up a few years ago to much acclaim in the community, not to mention new home brew titles and conversions from the Atari 8-bit computer line.

[classicgamer74]

I appreciate all the comments, guys. Thank you. If any of you have a refurbished 5200 you would like to sell, please let me know.

[+sramirez2008]

@classicgamer74 Do yourself a favor and pick one of these up.  Don’t let the controller ‘issues’ hold you back.  There are many options to choose from today. ?