A newly discovered method for playing games on the 5200 with a mouse

[ave1]

Just wanted to share here today that I've managed to find the best method for getting a mouse working on quite a few 5200 games- 1 and 2 button 5200 games.  Here's what you need:

 

1) A Masterplay Clone that doesn't only make Atari joysticks compatible with the 5200 but has 2-button game compatibility designed to get Sega Genesis controllers working (mine was the 2016 model made by Atariage member, Atariguy1021) 

 

2) A Commodore 64 mouse (model 1351)

 

3) a 9 pin splitter cable (1 female end to 2 male ends) and a Sega Genesis controller- this is only necessary if you're wanting to play the 2 button games. 

 

The setup is explained in my latest presentation which includes a lot of gameplay footage:  

 

 

 

 

 

[0078265317]

Nice

[Omega-TI]

I was starting to get excited, then he said Missile Command will not work with this method.  ?

[0078265317]

Unfortunately commodore mice on ebay are expensive.  Will any 9 pin mouse do?  Or there are some ps2 style commodore mice on ebay.  And maybe with a ps2 to serial adapter.

[0078265317]

Or would something like this work. And then a usb mouse.

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F153654372823

[ave1]

On 10/25/2019 at 12:15 AM, 0078265317 said:

Unfortunately commodore mice on ebay are expensive.  Will any 9 pin mouse do?  Or there are some ps2 style commodore mice on ebay.  And maybe with a ps2 to serial adapter.

Only the Commodore 64 model 1351 9 pin mouse will work.  Other 9 pin mice don't work the same... 

[ave1]

On 10/25/2019 at 2:14 AM, 0078265317 said:

Or would something like this work. And then a usb mouse.

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F153654372823

I would hope that would work. Maybe? It would be worth a try... I may consider it. 

[0078265317]

29 minutes ago, ave1 said:

Only the Commodore 64 model 1351 9 pin mouse will work.  Other 9 pin mice don't work the same... 

How so?  How is the commodore 1351 mouse different than others?

[+Mitch]

It is a joystick emulation mouse. Like the Atari 800/2600 trackballs in joystick mode.

 

Mitch

[Swami]

On 10/26/2019 at 11:25 PM, ave1 said:

I would hope that would work. Maybe? It would be worth a try... I may consider it. 

That will just give you an amiga mouse. You need something like the Rys MkII adapter that allows a usb mouse to be used as an Atari, Amiga or Commodore mouse. I think I tried this but there was not enough juice from the 5200 pin 9 to turn it all on. Maybe somehow it could be made to work. I have the flu now and a lot going on at work, but maybe at some future point I can try it with the Atari1021 masterplay clone. I don't think I tried that. 

 

https://amigastore.eu/414-rys-mkii-usb-adapter.html

 

[Swami]

On 10/23/2019 at 9:55 PM, ave1 said:

Just wanted to share here today that I've managed to find the best method for getting a mouse working on quite a few 5200 games- 1 and 2 button 5200 games.  Here's what you need:

 

1) A Masterplay Clone that doesn't only make Atari joysticks compatible with the 5200 but has 2-button game compatibility designed to get Sega Genesis controllers working (mine was the 2016 model made by Atariage member, Atariguy1021) 

 

2) A Commodore 64 mouse (model 1351)

 

3) a 9 pin splitter cable (1 female end to 2 male ends) and a Sega Genesis controller- this is only necessary if you're wanting to play the 2 button games. 

 

The setup is explained in my latest presentation which includes a lot of gameplay footage:  

Okay! So, I've figured out how to get a USB mouse to work in the same fashion as the C64 mouse and it works pretty much the same in terms of quality as the C64 mouse. You will need Atariguy1021's masterplay clone, again. I haven't figured out what is magical about this device but it seems to be able to power more of these adapters, compared to the ikonsgr one. I'll look into it more if I have the chance. Atariguy kept his design a trade secret, but maybe it can be figured out by opening up, though I hate to open up something I may not find again...

 

So, you need

1. the Atariguy masterplay clone

2. A TOM+ or Rys MkII USB mouse to Amiga mouse adapter TOM: $40, Rys: $43. Other USB to Amiga mouse adapters are on ebay for $20 to $30 shipped, but not yet tested by me.

3. The ikonsgr Amiga/ST mouse to joystick adapter $14

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amiga-Atari-ST-USB-with-extra-HW-Mouse-Adapter-For-Amstrad-Commodore-MSX-9pin/273069157318?hash=item3f9430abc6:g:OBgAAOSwcyVczXva

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Amiga-Atari-ST-C64-C128-Commodore-Mouse-Gamepad-Joystick-USB-adapter-TOM/174073945660?epid=901484295&hash=item28879d9e3c:g:Dg8AAOSwmLlYBzsp

 

https://amigastore.eu/414-rys-mkii-usb-adapter.html

 

Alternately, if you have an old Amiga or ST mouse and want to use it, you just need #1 and #3. 

Setup:

1. Check device instructions to have both adapters set to Amiga mouse or ST mouse

2. plug #3 into #1, plug #2 into #3

3. Turn on console and follow adapter instructions

4. Good to go

5. Both mouse buttons work as left and right 5200 controller buttons!!

6. You can also use USB, possibly PS/2, trackballs or old Amiga/ST trackballs.

7, The TOM+ seems to to a little more precise than the Rys, which mostly counts in centipede and millipede, although neither seem to work with old PS/2 mice.

 

A couple things:

1. Do both Rys and TOM adapters work with PS/2 mice. I know TOM does. It may give a slower, more precise response with an older, slower mouse.

2. Must be some reason why Atariguy masterplay version works and ikonsgr version doesn't.

3. I don't remember now, but in earlier work in using mice/trackballs with FPS mouse/keyboard adapters, it was observed in games like pole position and defender, moving the mouse left and stopping would keep the car/ship going left, ect., while in the other mode, stopping the mouse re-centers the car and stops the ship. The latter is what you get with this setup. It is what you want for centipede, space invaders, gyruss, river raid, etc., but is not so good for pole position and defender with a mouse, but is okay with a trackball.

4. As before, no missile command. In missile command, the crosshairs can go to about 2-25 differnt positions on the screen, but nothing in between.

 

[Swami]

This is the "low budget" version (the username low_budget, not the adjective)...similar to Atariguy's I think, but I know he made some changes. It DOES use pin 12 to power +5V Vcc at pin 7 (amiga/atari) or pin 5 (genesis), while the bohoki + ikonsgr version uses pin 9 paddle pot on pin 7 (amiga/atari) [Edit: for the new one and nothing - no power on pin 5 or 7 - for using the two separate one together]. You may also notice that 7800fan's masterplay clone does not work with playstation to genesis adapters, but Atariguy's do. That is because 7800fan's supports 7800 controllers, which require pin 5 as a button and not a +5V Vcc.

 

Edit: from what I see here, low_budget does much more than just connect 5200 pin 12 to DB9 pin 5 and 7. There are connection to the ground through a capacitor and to the DG413 and up/down DB9 pins 1 and 2 through 10k resistors ... a lot of interconnected stuff.

 

[0078265317]

5 hours ago, Swami said:

This is the "low budget" version (the username low_budget, not the adjective)...similar to Atariguy's I think, but I know he made some changes. It DOES use pin 12 to power +5V Vcc at pin 7 (amiga/atari) or pin 5 (genesis), while the bohoki + ikonsgr version uses pin 9 paddle pot on pin 7 (amiga/atari). You may also notice that 7800fan's masterplay clone does not work with playstation to genesis adapters, but Atariguy's do. That is because 7800fan's supports 7800 controllers, which require pin 5 as a button and not a +5V Vcc.

 

My low budget version works for with PlayStation controllers also.  With this adapter.

 

http://www.tototek.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=54

[Swami]

I have one of these Amiga optical mice that works for the 2600 Amiga mouse hacks, but does not work with the ikonsgr amiga mouse to joystick adapter, which is strange. Too bad as it would simplify things just to buy the mouse and adapter.

 

http://amigakit.amiga.store/product_info.php?products_id=1328

 

[Swami]

On 10/23/2019 at 8:55 PM, ave1 said:

Just wanted to share here today that I've managed to find the best method for getting a mouse working on quite a few 5200 games- 1 and 2 button 5200 games.  Here's what you need:

 

1) A Masterplay Clone that doesn't only make Atari joysticks compatible with the 5200 but has 2-button game compatibility designed to get Sega Genesis controllers working (mine was the 2016 model made by Atariage member, Atariguy1021) 

 

2) A Commodore 64 mouse (model 1351)

 

3) a 9 pin splitter cable (1 female end to 2 male ends) and a Sega Genesis controller- this is only necessary if you're wanting to play the 2 button games. 

 

The setup is explained in my latest presentation which includes a lot of gameplay footage:

 

Edit:  It sounds like the new version will have pin 7 on the DB9 powered by the pot +5V on the 5200 pin 9, but not sure. Still no idea why the second 1350 mouse button doesn't work with the Atariguy Masterplay clone.

[Swami]

On 10/26/2019 at 10:24 PM, ave1 said:

Only the Commodore 64 model 1351 9 pin mouse will work.  Other 9 pin mice don't work the same... 

Okay. So I tried it out on my homemade masterplay clone and for the old bohoki + ikonsgr unit, the pot common 5V on 5200 pin 9 ultimately goes to pin 7 on the DB9 and DB9 pin 5 is not connected. It is the same on the new one. On my homemade version I determined that the 5200 pot common is strong enough to power a rapid fire adapter and my PlayStation to Amiga adapter but not strong enough to power a usb to DB9 adapter (such as usb to Amiga mouse adapter). I have not tried with my tototek ps2 to genesis adapter as I cannot find it, so back to that later. However, when I connected pin 12 from the 5200 to pin 7 on the DB9, I was able to power the two adapters and usb mouse I described to get the usb mouse to joystick response working. So, you can use pin 12 on the 5200 as the DB9 pin 7 Vcc as low_budget did and I just did and it works better. 

 

So, the reason your c64 mouse works on the Atariguy masterplay clone but not the bohoki+ikonsgr74 is that Atariguy uses the 5200 pin 12 for Vcc and the bohoki+ikonsgr74 uses pin 9 (the pot common) for the Vcc. 

 

BTW, it is "relatively" easy to fix on both the old and new bohoki+ikonsgr74 MPC. A male and female DB15 breakout board and 15 wires. Every wire goes to its match, except pin 12 on the F goes to pin 9 on the M. Pin 9 M and pin 12 F are left unconnected. Tough part is getting good connectors.

 

I’ll pull out my C64 mouse tomorrow and see if I can figure out why the right mouse button doesn’t work. 

[0078265317]

17 hours ago, Swami said:

Okay. So I tried it out on my homemade masterplay clone and for the old bohoki + ikonsgr unit, the pot common 5V on 5200 pin 9 ultimately goes to pin 7 on the DB9 and DB9 pin 5 is not connected. It is the same on the new one. On my homemade version I determined that the 5200 pot common is strong enough to power a rapid fire adapter and my PlayStation to Amiga adapter but not strong enough to power a usb to DB9 adapter (such as usb to Amiga mouse adapter). I have not tried with my tototek ps2 to genesis adapter as I cannot find it, so back to that later. However, when I connected pin 12 from the 5200 to pin 7 on the DB9, I was able to power the two adapters and usb mouse I described to get the usb mouse to joystick response working. So, you can use pin 12 on the 5200 as the DB9 pin 7 Vcc as low_budget did and I just did and it works better. 

 

So, the reason your c64 mouse works on the Atariguy masterplay clone but not the bohoki+ikonsgr74 is that Atariguy uses the 5200 pin 12 for Vcc and the bohoki+ikonsgr74 uses pin 9 (the pot common) for the Vcc. 

 

BTW, it is "relatively" easy to fix on both the old and new bohoki+ikonsgr74 MPC. A male and female DB15 breakout board and 15 wires. Every wire goes to its match, except pin 12 on the F goes to pin 9 on the M. Pin 9 M and pin 12 F are left unconnected. Tough part is getting good connectors.

 

I’ll pull out my C64 mouse tomorrow and see if I can figure out why the right mouse button doesn’t work. 

I have a low budget masterplay clone also.  So that means no c64 mouse?

[Swami]

3 minutes ago, 0078265317 said:

I have a low budget masterplay clone also.  So that means no c64 mouse?

The C64 mouse will work on the Atariguy and low budget,  since they are the same, maybe the 7800fan one will work, too. I don't know about the second button, though.

 

The bohoki+ikonsgr74 will not work without a homemade adapter.

[0078265317]

But mine is an older model.

[0078265317]

Here are pics of mine.

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/192363-masterplay-clone/

[Swami]

On 11/3/2019 at 4:51 PM, Swami said:

 

 

4 minutes ago, 0078265317 said:

But mine is an older model.

Above is the low budget schematic. Pin 12 on the left goes to pin 7 on the right. Therefore, it will work. Atariguy1021 used basically the same design as low budget, except he added the paddle compatibility.

[0078265317]

5 minutes ago, Swami said:

 

Above is the low budget schematic. Pin 12 on the left goes to pin 7 on the right. Therefore, it will work. Atariguy1021 used basically the same design as low budget, except he added the paddle compatibility.

Except low budget had a couple of different version.  See my pics.

[ave1]

All of this is very interesting to hear about. Thank you Swami for taking this and running with it!  I'm interested to find out what is keeping the C64 mouse's second button from working right when it's connected to the Atariguy1021  Masterplay Clone. 

 

Here's another idea (which 0078265317 made me aware of recently) that I may try within the next month to possibly get a PS/2 mouse working on the 5200:   Use a Masterplay Clone with this $21 adapter:  https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F123813907959

 

Unfortunately, it requires a trip acrossed the pond. 

 

Not sure it'll work, but it might be a really nice adapter to check out. 

[Swami]

4 minutes ago, ave1 said:

All of this is very interesting to hear about. Thank you Swami for taking this and running with it!  I'm interested to find out what is keeping the C64 mouse's second button from working right when it's connected to the Atariguy1021  Masterplay Clone. 

 

Here's another idea (which 0078265317 made me aware of recently) that I may try within the next month to possibly get a PS/2 mouse working on the 5200:   Use a Masterplay Clone with this $21 adapter:  https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F123813907959

 

Unfortunately, it requires a trip acrossed the pond. 

 

Not sure it'll work, but it might be a really nice adapter to check out. 

Cool. Never seen this before. Ask them if the joystick mode has one or two buttons active. I’ve come across a few where they get lazy with the 1350 mode and assume you only need the left button. I am currently corresponding with Micromys about their micromys v5 usb to c64 mouse adapter. Almost all of these mouse adapters are European it seems. 

[ave1]

Okay, I'll ask the seller that question.  This may get very interesting if we could get Ikonsgr74 to make a single adapter to get USB or PS/2 mice compatible with the single and two button 5200 games (or, at most, use two adapters to do this instead of three).