CollectorVision Phoenix Release Thread

[Murph74]

On 1/20/2022 at 1:54 PM, Tursi said:

Remember to change cores at startup by pressing * right away, before the Coleco core starts up

 

 

Hoping this is addressed as well in future updates.  I've not yet figured out a way to switch cores when using a 8BitDo SNES wireless controller.  The option to hit * is gone by the time the controller handshakes.

[Ikrananka]

5 hours ago, Murph74 said:

Hoping this is addressed as well in future updates.  I've not yet figured out a way to switch cores when using a 8BitDo SNES wireless controller.  The option to hit * is gone by the time the controller handshakes.

You should add this to the CollectorVision GitHub issues list.

[nick3092]

As long as the delay is configurable somehow. A forced delay for everyone to accommodate the population using wireless controllers would be annoying. 

[Lil Alien]

On 1/16/2022 at 4:39 PM, retroillucid said:

Sure

Our main programmer is currently closing a project, then he'll resume works on the Phoenix cores/issues
I'm also using the Phoenix as my main console, so I also want those issues to be resolved
 

I'm extremely pleased to hear this update, it's been so long.. I'm looking forward to the clock fix the most, followed by the Atari 2600 fixes relating to screensize and other issues others have already reported. Please stick with it! Love my unit!

[nick3092]

On 1/16/2022 at 3:39 PM, retroillucid said:

Sure

Our main programmer is currently closing a project, then he'll resume works on the Phoenix cores/issues
I'm also using the Phoenix as my main console, so I also want those issues to be resolved
 

As we are now a little over 2 months past this, any updates that can be provided on work being done on the Phoenix?

[timepilot]

On 3/22/2022 at 10:24 AM, nick3092 said:

As we are now a little over 2 months past this, any updates that can be provided on work being done on the Phoenix?

I would also appreciate an update.  The lack of sound on VCS Pitfall! is very frustrating, and I would very much like to be able to have the HDMI go directly from the Phoenix to the TV without needing to use a resolution/frame (refresh?) rate converter as an intermediary.  It's a great machine for what it does in playing ColecoVision games, and for playing those VCS games that work properly, but it would be much better with these things fixed.

 

And I still would like to see an ADAM core.

[Hastor]

1 minute ago, timepilot said:

I would also appreciate an update.  The lack of sound on VCS Pitfall! is very frustrating, and I would very much like to be able to have the HDMI go directly from the Phoenix to the TV without needing to use a resolution/frame (refresh?) rate converter as an intermediary.  It's a great machine for what it does in playing ColecoVision games, and for playing those VCS games that work properly, but it would be much better with these things fixed.

 

And I still would like to see an ADAM core.

They have said the HDMI issue could only be fixed with a hardware change in a new revision, or an adapter for the current model, so firmware and cores won't help that, and I haven't heard anything about hardware work in a long time. I was able to get mine working without HDMI issues by adding a cheap mechanical 2-way switcher. I don't even need to switch it or remember it is there. However, others have tried ones that looked just like mine, but stamped with a different brand, which didn't work. While I feel like I already have the fix for that, even if not in an official accessory, I'm sure many others would appreciate one!

I'd also like any updates, though honestly I kinda assumed it was gonna stay like it is after a while, and still enjoy everything that does work well on it (and have a real CV for sutff that doesn't).

[TPR]

I'm probably going to get yelled at from people for this, but I really don't care as I feel it needs to be said...

 

I have been using my CollectorVision Phoenix for well over two years now and it works AWESOME!  It literally is the only piece of hardware I basically play ColecoVision games on anymore.  I've never had any issues with it at all. I've never needed anything special to get it to work. It's great.  Honestly, it's just a fantastic little piece of hardware.  I have 5 different TVs in my house, all of different sizes and models, and no issues.

 

I don't really need or care about any additional "cores" either as IMO this was a ColecoVision first and anything else it may or may not eventually do is a "bonus."  The fact that it does actually play a pretty vast library of Atari 2600 ROMs is a wonderful bonus and I thank CollectorVision for that!

 

While I do not disagree that those who are having issues getting it to work on their TV sets there probably needs to be some sort of update to address that, BUT... the fact that this is essentially a "homebrew" piece of hardware, I actually understand that it may not work 100% for everyone right out of the box, and that's just the reality of the situation.  If it was that important to me, I would either buy another TV that it works with, or some of the very inexpensive adapters or attachments that many people have made mention to get it to work. I'm pretty sure I've seen that an HDMI switcher or adapter as cheap as $20 from Amazon has made the Phoenix work just fine on almost all TVs.

 

For those of you complaining about wanting additional cores, well, the console **IS** open source and if I understand that correctly, anyone here should be able to put a console core into development, it doesn't HAVE to be CollectorVision, is that right?  Just asking for a friend.

 

And if you really are THAT upset by any of this, and you really do feel slighted by CollectorVision and you feel their product is not living up to your expectations, I can tell you there are lots and lots of people who frequent this forum, who post to all the CV Facebook groups out there, that would LOVE to take it off your hands as is.  So maybe if you aren't happy with the Phoenix, you can just simply post it for sale so that others can enjoy it without complaining?  That really is a win-win for everyone!

 

I know it's super tough to make everyone happy with whatever product you release.  But if you're not happy, just sell it.  It's that simple.  

 

With all the other hardware crazy drama that is out there: Amico, VCS, etc... Can't we just give a little bit of praise to CollectorVision for actually releasing this console, it works, it's awesome, and it's a huge, HUGE, *H*U*G*E* contributor to keeping the ColecoVision communities alive and well???  And I fully DO believe they still intend on fixing those issues and offering more cores, but it will just take time. 

 

Thank you for hearing me out.

[digress]

I like my Phoneix system. It works good. I like that I can use my original coleco controllers too.

 

The sd card is loaded with games I added. The atari 2600 is great to play phoenix, or coleco atari ports or pitfall.

 

I did need that $20 amazon hdmi to rca box but it's a minor thing and then I can use it on my projector or crt as well as hdmi.

[+evg2000]

I bought a TiVo a couple years as ago and it didn’t work on my tv. Tried different hdmi cables etc. they sent me a replacement, still didn’t work. Finally swapped tvs and it worked. So it’s not just the Phoenix that can have those issue 

[nick3092]

And of course the CollectorVision white knight shows up, with ban hammer at the ready no doubt.

 

I'll admit the Phoenix is great in 95% of the cases. But it still has issues that should be addressed. For one, the pixel clock timing some TVs don't like that Brian admitted is wrong and promised a fix for like 2 years ago. By the advice recently given, if you are affected you should go buy a different TV. Sound advice.

 

The back feeding of voltage via HDMI was just sloppy to begin with. I understand that is a hardware issue, so there is no fix for revision 1 units short of having to add an extra device to the HDMI chain. Which sucks, but at this point is what it is. 

 

The roller controller can be erratic due to the ground difference when powered externally. CollectorVision at least a year a go (probably even longer), had promised to make an adapter to connect to the expansion port. This should be fairly simple and use readily available passive components. It's not like due to the FPGA shortage this couldn't be released.

 

And as for cores, why should the public have to fix the 2600 core that CollectorVision published?

 

As to other cores, while not officially promised on any sales page, leading up to the sale there were promises of sms, msx, and TI-99/4A cores in addition to 2600. And I'm sure somewhere along the way J-F had teased Adam as well. While these were not on the official sales page, legally they have not broken any product promises. But they did use them to hype up pre sales. So some people probably were led to believe that would be part of the value of the product. But now we should all write our own cores. More awesome advice. 

[+evg2000]

@nick3092 whether you like @tpr or not, your first sentence in a post shouldn’t be a personal attack.

[Albert]

8 minutes ago, nick3092 said:

And of course the CollectorVision white knight shows up, with ban hammer at the ready no doubt.

Please stop, this isn't helpful.

 

Thank you,

 

 ..Al

[+eebuckeye]

The Phoenix is terrific but a few games that work in the Colecovision do not work in the Phoenix for whatever reason.

 

The cores were a big marketing push for the system before release so I was hoping there would be a couple more available especially Adam.

 

Is the HDMI issue the issue Kevtris warned them about during development?  I remember something like that but maybe something else.

 

Collectorvision is incredible no doubt but do with the Phoenix got a bit more love after release.

[retroillucid]

Our main programmer is still busy finishing our SNES game
Once he's completely done with it, he'll resume works on the Phoenix

Please, keep in mind we (CollectorVision) all want perfectly working core(s)
It's not something we don't care of don't want to improve, cause we REALLY want!

And since the Phoenix is open source, anyone can work on it, not just us. 

 

[timepilot]

6 minutes ago, retroillucid said:

Our main programmer is still busy finishing our SNES game
Once he's completely done with it, he'll resume works on the Phoenix

Please, keep in mind we (CollectorVision) all want perfectly working core(s)
It's not something we don't care of don't want to improve, cause we REALLY want!

And since the Phoenix is open source, anyone can work on it, not just us. 

 

Thank you for the update; much appreciated.

[fiddlepaddle]

I don't own a phoenix, BUT I'm really impressed that it made it to fruition and am a big fan of this thread and the people who put forth the effort to create this and donate their ideas via open source for the future. If I could buy one at a local store, I would have already.

My main point, though, is just to remind anyone who might be offended by any constructive criticism being offered:

What looks like a complaint can be interpreted in a constructive way. Honest feedback is always better than no feedback and stimulates new thoughts that can lead to improvements of the product. Even if it sounds personal, it's probably not. Some people are naturally cynical and negative by nature, but those very individuals are often very, very good at identifying specific things to improve.

[128Kgames]

4 hours ago, TPR said:

I'm probably going to get yelled at from people for this, but I really don't care as I feel it needs to be said...

 

I have been using my CollectorVision Phoenix for well over two years now and it works AWESOME!  It literally is the only piece of hardware I basically play ColecoVision games on anymore.  I've never had any issues with it at all. I've never needed anything special to get it to work. It's great.  Honestly, it's just a fantastic little piece of hardware.  I have 5 different TVs in my house, all of different sizes and models, and no issues.

 

I don't really need or care about any additional "cores" either as IMO this was a ColecoVision first and anything else it may or may not eventually do is a "bonus."  The fact that it does actually play a pretty vast library of Atari 2600 ROMs is a wonderful bonus and I thank CollectorVision for that!

I'm in the same boat TPR, I bought the Phoenix to use just as a modern day ColecoVision, I really had no interest in running other cores on it.  I had no desire at the time to modify any of my existing Colecos (this was before mods like Ruggers Customs makes). 

 

While I haven't had any issues with my main TV with it (surprising as its an older 4K LG SUHD and it can be "finicky" with its HDMI) I can see how it can be frustrating if it doesn't work for some people.  But that's just how it goes sometimes, its not like CollectorVision is Sony or Microsoft, and I'm sure those guys are doing what they can.  Like J-F said its not like they don't want the Phoenix to work!  

 

I don't think there is anything that's ever "100%" compatible with everything, at least I've never come across anything that is. 

[TPR]

41 minutes ago, fiddlepaddle said:

My main point, though, is just to remind anyone who might be offended by any constructive criticism being offered

I'm not offended.  I'm annoyed.  There's a huge difference! 

 

I legit respect everything that CollectorVision is doing and I 100% do believe that they will live up to their promises with updates, fixes, and cores.

 

What "annoys" me is the constant stream of complaining by a very small group of people with very loud voices who just seem to be impatient regardless of how many times JF or someone from CollectorVision may say "Please be patient...we are working on it and we will deliver."

 

Because the reality is two things here:

 

1. The Phoenix works just fine for probably 99.9% of people.  And those .10% just seem to enjoy bringing up the same issues over and over again.

 

2. Not everything in the world is going to work like "Amazon Prime" and get done instantly.  These are all people who have day jobs and families who do things like program games, hardware, and ship thousands of packages in their spare time. 

 

And all I'm saying is if you can't be patient, and you can't them give them time it takes to address those minor issues, then just simply sell your console to someone who will appreciate it as it currently is.  Because there's a shit ton of those people out there. 

 

Trust me... if 99% of the people were having that HDMI problem, it would get fixed ASAP. But the reality is, I see people posting in this forum, in the Lunatics Group, in the CollectorVision groups every single day using their Phoenix without any problem at all.  So I can fully appreciate and understand why fixing a minor issue that affects so few people hasn't been a top priority.  On their radar?  Yes.  But #1 on the "to do list?"  I wouldn't think so.

 

There are plenty of other homebrew projects that have taken YEARS and still haven't shipped. CollectorVision made good...they made DAMN GOOD on their promise in a very reasonable amount of time.  Give them some time to work out that last .10% of the issues.

 

Thanks for hearing me out. 

[TPR]

24 minutes ago, 128Kgames said:

I don't think there is anything that's ever "100%" compatible with everything, at least I've never come across anything that is. 

You're absolutely correct. As someone who spent a significant amount of time with the PC Compatibility lab when I worked for Activision in the early 2000s, I can tell you that even professionally shipped games had issues on some machines.  And that was just the reality of how development went.  We tested games on literally THOUSANDS of combinations of mother boards, sound cards, graphics cards, CD-ROM drives, etc, but no matter how much compatibility testing you did, there was always going to be someone out there who had a system a game just didn't work on, and all you could say was "Sorry, we did our best..."  And yes, we would later patch games and fixes issues that made sense to, but not everything was able to be addressed. 

 

That's just how it is.  You can ask for a refund, you can play it on a different system, you could get a different sound card/graphics card/etc, but asking for everything to be 100% compatible with everything is simply an unrealistic expectation. 

 

And that's not my personal opinion, that's based on my professional video game publisher experience. 

[MMarcoux66]

1 hour ago, 128Kgames said:

I'm in the same boat TPR, I bought the Phoenix to use just as a modern day ColecoVision, I really had no interest in running other cores on it.  I had no desire at the time to modify any of my existing Colecos (this was before mods like Ruggers Customs makes). 

 

While I haven't had any issues with my main TV with it (surprising as its an older 4K LG SUHD and it can be "finicky" with its HDMI) I can see how it can be frustrating if it doesn't work for some people.  But that's just how it goes sometimes, its not like CollectorVision is Sony or Microsoft, and I'm sure those guys are doing what they can.  Like J-F said its not like they don't want the Phoenix to work!  

 

I don't think there is anything that's ever "100%" compatible with everything, at least I've never come across anything that is. 

I feel exactly the same way and so glad I was luckily to have gotten one during each run. Yes, I would love it to do more but for what it is...  I am VERY happy. I use it almost every day.

[MMarcoux66]

58 minutes ago, TPR said:

I'm not offended.  I'm annoyed.  There's a huge difference! 

 

I legit respect everything that CollectorVision is doing and I 100% do believe that they will live up to their promises with updates, fixes, and cores.

 

What "annoys" me is the constant stream of complaining by a very small group of people with very loud voices who just seem to be impatient regardless of how many times JF or someone from CollectorVision may say "Please be patient...we are working on it and we will deliver."

 

Because the reality is two things here:

 

1. The Phoenix works just fine for probably 99.9% of people.  And those .10% just seem to enjoy bringing up the same issues over and over again.

 

2. Not everything in the world is going to work like "Amazon Prime" and get done instantly.  These are all people who have day jobs and families who do things like program games, hardware, and ship thousands of packages in their spare time. 

 

And all I'm saying is if you can't be patient, and you can't them give them time it takes to address those minor issues, then just simply sell your console to someone who will appreciate it as it currently is.  Because there's a shit ton of those people out there. 

 

Trust me... if 99% of the people were having that HDMI problem, it would get fixed ASAP. But the reality is, I see people posting in this forum, in the Lunatics Group, in the CollectorVision groups every single day using their Phoenix without any problem at all.  So I can fully appreciate and understand why fixing a minor issue that affects so few people hasn't been a top priority.  On their radar?  Yes.  But #1 on the "to do list?"  I wouldn't think so.

 

There are plenty of other homebrew projects that have taken YEARS and still haven't shipped. CollectorVision made good...they made DAMN GOOD on their promise in a very reasonable amount of time.  Give them some time to work out that last .10% of the issues.

 

Thanks for hearing me out. 

I have to say, this is really well said. With my experiences with CollectorVision, they has lived up to their promises each and every time. Maybe I am a fanboy, but I really appreciate their efforts in keeping my childhood alive after 40 years :).

[nick3092]

4 hours ago, TPR said:

I'm not offended.  I'm annoyed.  There's a huge difference! 

 

I legit respect everything that CollectorVision is doing and I 100% do believe that they will live up to their promises with updates, fixes, and cores.

 

What "annoys" me is the constant stream of complaining by a very small group of people with very loud voices who just seem to be impatient regardless of how many times JF or someone from CollectorVision may say "Please be patient...we are working on it and we will deliver."

 

Because the reality is two things here:

 

1. The Phoenix works just fine for probably 99.9% of people.  And those .10% just seem to enjoy bringing up the same issues over and over again.

 

2. Not everything in the world is going to work like "Amazon Prime" and get done instantly.  These are all people who have day jobs and families who do things like program games, hardware, and ship thousands of packages in their spare time. 

 

And all I'm saying is if you can't be patient, and you can't them give them time it takes to address those minor issues, then just simply sell your console to someone who will appreciate it as it currently is.  Because there's a shit ton of those people out there. 

 

Trust me... if 99% of the people were having that HDMI problem, it would get fixed ASAP. But the reality is, I see people posting in this forum, in the Lunatics Group, in the CollectorVision groups every single day using their Phoenix without any problem at all.  So I can fully appreciate and understand why fixing a minor issue that affects so few people hasn't been a top priority.  On their radar?  Yes.  But #1 on the "to do list?"  I wouldn't think so.

 

There are plenty of other homebrew projects that have taken YEARS and still haven't shipped. CollectorVision made good...they made DAMN GOOD on their promise in a very reasonable amount of time.  Give them some time to work out that last .10% of the issues.

 

Thanks for hearing me out. 

Being on mobile, splitting up the quote isn't easy as far as I can tell. So I'm going to paraphrase the above.

 

"This is a small number of people complaining constantly when J-F says we're on it."

 

I'm guessing this is aimed at me, as I've asked several times recently about these issues. These are issues that have been there since day 1. Which was what, early to mid 2019? I don't recall anymore exactly when this shipped. But it was pre covid. It's now early 2022. And no resolution. So how long can you be "on an issue"? And why does it matter what percentage is complaining? These are issues acknowledged by CV.  It shouldn't matter if 1 or 1,000 people are complaining. They are defects. 

 

J-F said in January they were going to begin addressing these issues "soon". Or something along the lines that the person doing them was wrapping up a project and would be right on it.

 

So I waited 2 months to ask for an update. Very reasonable timeframe IMO. But some people think

thats not reasonable and now I'm being impatient. Especially when J-F basically admitted nothing has been done, but it will soon. Again. Let's see where we are in another 2 months.

 

Which brings me to the Amazon prime "instant" comment. That doesn't even remotely apply here. As mentioned, these are issues present since day 1. Which is at least 2.5 years ago. Approaching 3 very soon. Does Amazon Prime take almost 3 years to ship products? Again, according to TPR I'm impatient. Is 3 years really impatient?

 

I fully understand a product like this will take time to fully bake. But after 3 years, how much longer are we expected to wait for fixes? When was the last time we even saw any fixes?

 

Again, I admit Phoenix is like 95% of the way there. But after three years we are still at the same 95%.

[JEFF31]

5 hours ago, TPR said:

You're absolutely correct. As someone who spent a significant amount of time with the PC Compatibility lab when I worked for Activision in the early 2000s, I can tell you that even professionally shipped games had issues on some machines.  And that was just the reality of how development went.  We tested games on literally THOUSANDS of combinations of mother boards, sound cards, graphics cards, CD-ROM drives, etc, but no matter how much compatibility testing you did, there was always going to be someone out there who had a system a game just didn't work on, and all you could say was "Sorry, we did our best..."  And yes, we would later patch games and fixes issues that made sense to, but not everything was able to be addressed.

 

Lazy bastards!!! You should have tried tens of millions of combos so that you could bring out that Pentium upgrade last week...  ???.

 

As far as nick3092's concerns - I understand.  I bought an original Phoenix.   It plays well but I get no sound.  Fixes have been suggested but I'm not the type to spend more on fixing the problem.  I NEED a simple solution.

 

Been buying homebrews for nearly 20 years.  Glad the publishers have taken the time to give us the games (AND hardware!).

 

'Nick' - Phoenix NOT working - keep 'complaining' / asking for updates - daily if you wish - this IS the "Phoenix Release Thread"...

 

'TPR' - something bothering you about something someone said?  - keep responding - daily if you wish - this is the "Phoenix Release Thread"

 

I do not agree with what is said (for this thread) with some peoples views/opinions... but they have a right to express them (as often as the like)...

 

 

On many threads I start reading and quickly 'skip' the channel if I do not care (infrequently).

 

Most of my time I try to read and weigh both sides of an issue and move forward...

 

Anyway - my 2 cents.

[TPR]

Cleaned up this thread to remove pointless off-topic drama.  You all are 100% right, especially this...

43 minutes ago, JEFF31 said:

I do not agree with what is said (for this thread) with some peoples views/opinions... but they have a right to express them (as often as the like)...

Please continue to carry on expressing your issues with the console. And I will simply continue to enjoy mine.

 

I said what I felt I wanted to say, and many of you replied, and that is fine.  That's how it works.

 

But when additional drama and/or personal attacks are introduced that have nothing to do with the topic, that's when I step in and have to moderate.  I don't like having to do that, so please don't push me in that direction.  Thank you. 

 

Carry on, everyone...