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bluejay

Should I get a IIe or a II+?

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I found a person who was selling vintage apple stuff for less than eBay prices, and the the guy wanted $100 for a IIe and $300 for a II+. Should I just sell my useless-ly small crt and buy the IIe or save more money to buy the II+?

I'm not all that experienced with Apple gear(both old and new) and could use some help from you folks out there. Thanks.

P.S. It should cost an extra $100 to get the disk drives and monitor + shipping.

Edited by bluejay

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The IIe will be more useful especially if it's the enhanced version which has compatibility with the IIc. IIe can easily be upgraded to enhanced specs ( new roms and 65c02 ).

 

It's a no brainer really, the IIe should have an 80 col card. That will give you a total of 128kb to play with vs 48k in the II plus.

 

I think the IIe is more reliable as well, less chips, much less that can go wrong which makes them simple to troubleshoot and repair.

Edited by shoestring
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There's no reason to go with a II+ unless you're an Apple II collector and want it for nostalgia's sake.  The IIe is more capable, more reliable, and can play more games

 

That being said there are a small handful (very small) of games that won't run on the IIe due to the slightly different processor 65C02 vs 6502.  However not all IIe's have this processor (they have to say Enhanced on them) and I believe all the games have been patched at this point so unless you're running originals it won't matter.

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I just like the looks of the original II and the II+ better than the IIe, and the original disk drives go better with the II+, and the II+ is just more... I dunno, classic?

I also have a question. Do IIs have machine language monitors?

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There's no reason to go with a II+ unless you're an Apple II collector and want it for nostalgia's sake....   That is exactly why I purchased my apple II+ in July. But I keep thinking the next one will be a IIe or IIgs just so I could run some more programs. But I still have a few things to add to my apple ii plus collection first. The nice thing about the iie and the iigs is you can use the cards from an apple II.  TTFN, Josh    

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2 hours ago, bluejay said:

I also have a question. Do IIs have machine language monitors?

They do.  CALL -151 from either BASIC will drop you into the monitor.

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I think with the II+ you are missing the mini-assembler, but not a show-stopper really.

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7 hours ago, bluejay said:

I just like the looks of the original II and the II+ better than the IIe,

Which IIe is it? Only the IIe Platinum looks really different from the II+, IMO... though there are obviously small differences even with the original. But the original looks pretty much just like the II+ other than the squared-off keyboard and the logo plate being moved over from the center. They made minor changes to the look throughout the IIe's run, so it slowly evolved into what became the IIe Platinum.

 

Even the IIe Platinum still looks like an Apple II to me, though, and I grew up with these machines. (My school had Apple II+'s, and my own first computer was a IIc that I still have.)

 

I agree with everyone else that the IIe is the way to go unless there's something wrong with it. II+'s these days are overpriced considering they are less capable machines, and despite the II line's expandability in general (except for the IIc), you can't expand a II+ to be a IIe. There will always be stuff you can do on a IIe that you can't on a II+. If the IIe is non-enhanced, it's a $25 kit to make it enhanced. I *believe* all non-enhanced IIe's can be enhanced with that kit.

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What the others said.

 

If you're only going to have one II, IMO make it a IIe or a IIgs.  The II+ is more of a collector thing, and the IIe will run 99.999% of the software that was written for the II+.

 

If you get the IIe, look at the sticker around the power light next to the spacebar.  If it says "enhanced", then you have the newer ROMS.  If not, press control-closed apple (the right-hand one)-reset and it'll run a self-test.  The enhanced ROMs will display a random low-rez pixel pattern, whereas the unenhanced will display horizontal bars that appear and disappear.  It doesn't really matter which ROMs you have if you're not planning to run any mouse software, though.  It certainly doesn't matter for playing games.

 

On the Big Mess o' Wires store, you can get a FloppyEmu for somewhere around $50 so you can load disk images off SD card.  You can get disk images off the Asimov ftp site.  If you decide that you need enhanced ROMS, you can get them from Reactive Micro, I think.

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It's an early model. Some people get all hot and heavy over the first releases of the //e with the white keyboard and such. I also understand the early model //e units had/have an issue with DHR graphics or need mod or a modded 64k card. I'm not clear on that however.

 

Anyhow. I highly recommend the //e [enhanced], or //e Platinum which is also "enhanced" - the ROMS are the same. The II+ is rather limiting and less reliable with some 1600 IC contacts going and stuff.

 

For the handful of titles that won't boot on an enhanced //e you can pre-boot a loader called anti-M. Or get the patched version of the program in question.

 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, bluejay said:

https://imgur.com/a/39PO7Bw

i suppose this is the non-enhanced version?

Serial No. is 03493. That's an earlier model, isn't it?

The serial number won't tell you one way or the other since many early //e's were enhanced after market.  Sometimes there will be a sticker over the light on the keyboard, saying either "enhanced" or "65C02", otherwise you'll need to check the processor.  An "enhanced" //e will have a 65c02 or 6203 processor (same thing), originals will have a regular 6502.  Also, as a personal bias, I love the //e!  ][+'s are nice, but there's a lot more software to take advantage of for the //e enhanced.  

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I'm pretty sure that if it just says "Apple ][" on bootup, it's non-enhanced. Enhanced IIe's should show "Apple //e" on bootup.

 

It doesn't really matter, but it's probably harder to find a non-enhanced IIe than an enhanced one nowadays. There's not that much software that cares either way, but there's some that does. (There's probably more that requires enhancement than there is that requires non-enhancement. And the software requiring enhancement is later software that's generally going to do more powerful stuff.) If you ever did want to enhance it, you can get that aforementioned ReactiveMicro kit that's a reproduction of the original Apple kit that did the same thing.

Edited by spacecadet
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1 minute ago, spacecadet said:

I'm pretty sure that if it just says "Apple ][" on bootup, it's non-enhanced. Enhanced IIe's should show "Apple //e" on bootup.

You're right.  I forgot about that!  🙂

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That's exactly like mine (although I put a platinum mobo in mine, because it was free).

 

You probably won't have to mod a 64k/80col card to make it work.  That was only the first couple of really early mobo revisions.

 

You won't have mousetext, which doesn't matter for gaming anyway.  Unless someone replaced the ROMS already, which I doubt.

 

I'd certainly take that over the ][+, if I didn't already have a ][e.

 

It looks like it doesn't come with a disk drive, though?  That could be a problem.  Even if you are going to use a FloppyEmu, you still need the disk controller card to plug the FloppyEmu into.  That vintage of //e would have come with a "Disk ][" controller card, which supports two Disk ][ drives (the full height ones with the black faceplate).  If you have the controller and drive(s), the card goes in Slot 6.  Be careful that you plug the ribbon cable from the disk drive in the right way, and aren't off by a pin, or it'll put 12v on something that shouldn't have it and let the magic smoke out of a chip inside the drive.

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18 hours ago, spacecadet said:

I'm pretty sure that if it just says "Apple ][" on bootup, it's non-enhanced. Enhanced IIe's should show "Apple //e" on bootup.

 

 

Yes. This after replacing the dead RAM in my non enhanced IIe with the original mask roms.

 

unnamed-3.jpg

 

unnamed-8.jpg

 

 

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I say go with IIe.  But those prices seem a little high.


I just recently built a II+ and while it's great, it's more work to get it running. 

Edited by cbmeeks

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On 11/9/2019 at 12:44 AM, bluejay said:

I found a person who was selling vintage apple stuff for less than eBay prices, and the the guy wanted $100 for a IIe and $300 for a II+. Should I just sell my useless-ly small crt and buy the IIe or save more money to buy the II+?

I'm not all that experienced with Apple gear(both old and new) and could use some help from you folks out there. Thanks.

P.S. It should cost an extra $100 to get the disk drives and monitor + shipping.

At $300, I would go for an Apple IIgs, unless you are specifically looking for a display piece.

 

You can get away without a monitor, as long as you have a TV or monitor with composite input. You can also get away without an external drive, if you get a Floppy Emu, which will cost around $130.

The IIgs can use more "modern" hardware, such as a replacement Mac keyboard and mouse. There's also a cheap serial option.

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