Jump to content
wierd_w

Measuring a PEB

Recommended Posts

About 4 years ago I spent $120 on materials and built my own aluminium forge. I smelted about 40lbs of Monster cans and Budweiser cans (not my beer of choice but anyway). I was truly sad that there was nothing I could do with them here in California. They won't let you recycle them unless there is a stamp on it that says "Recyclable in CA"

 

I got right up to the point of actually casting sheets of aluminium, when the local PD told me to stop it.

 

If I can dig up the lil' aluminium muffins (guess what I used for an Ingot Mold) do you want them? It might be worth the trip to Kansas.

 

Failing that, I will see how a total layman could replicate those measurements with sheet metal. 

 

So bandsaws, missing fingers, and duct tape project coming soon!

 

(I am actually really excited about this project, and want to see it to fruition, and wish I could contribute more)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dont be too excited just yet...

 

In addition to dimensional data, one would need tools.  Since none of us have a breakpress or hydroblock press, that means manual forming jig(s) for hand-forming.

After making models and prints, I have to design tooling.  My mind is already hard at work thinking about manufacturing processes for these, but tool design is voodoo.

 

It's ghetto as hell, but I am considering how an automotive hydraulic floor jack and some wooden forms (with plastic nylon printed faces) could be employed to become a ghetto makeshift breakpress.

 

More thinking needs to be done though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a side note to this, could a PseudoPEB be an extension of the sidecar? Maybe a topic for a new thread, but seems that a lot of the PEB is a extension of the sidecar.. Using the sidecar connection and connector form factor, could make the project easier. I'm rookie though so take this with a grain(or pound) of salt.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One idea I have been toying with, is a "PEBestal"

 

Basically, a little pedestal that sits underneath the 99/4A, which connects to the sidecar bus on the side with a little wall, and which has a compartment inside under the 99 that has room for a single PEB card, and has various other useful thinks integrated (Speech, 32k, etc).

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SO--

 

Helo has been busy giving me more data to work with, and since I had today off, I have been busy modeling my little brains out.  Not complete-- Many features are still missing!  However, it is starting to look a bit like a PEB.

 

PEBASSY.thumb.png.6d31314b20cd8d19062cb5b9b17a75b8.png

 

The plastic front bit is not quite true-to-life.  The back is just flat. (The real thing has all these little material-saving wells and such inside) I needed it for fitting, so I made the front look pretty and all.

 

Where the main frame component makes that "reduction", the resulting flat pattern has a very odd looking profile...

2022622717_oddprofile.thumb.png.fb0d77bd5098b1b97f28d83e2fd68a1d.png

 

That "Swept" cutout area is necessary to produce the "cleanly met seam" that comes to be after forming:

 

 

seamouter.thumb.png.f4a052955a2a13ccc5dff0d603b151f0.png

 

seaminner.thumb.png.70d18af2fff870787fa4683e7ce3d68f.png

 

 

You might be wondering what the round hole is there for--  That is bend relief allowance in the corner, and is there to prevent fatigue in the metal during forming, since I lack a super-duper fancy hydraulic forming press.

 

The original part has a much more ... difficult... to manufacture corner there. This one will be more friendly to some random jerk (like me) to form manually. The dimensions are identical otherwise, just not as cosmetically pleasing.

 

 

I am drawing attention to it because I am not sure exactly how to define that on the print.  In the aviation industry, I would just say "Make a 1:1 mylar print, and have them lay the part on top." but that isn't really an option in our little community.  It is logically the result of computing the intersection line of if those two bends continued through each other when folded, then mapped to where they would be in the unfolded view. (my software has some nifty features for doing that, so I dont have to do fancy scary trig functions.)   If this feature is not cut precisely, the corner will not close cleanly.

 

I am open to suggestions...

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, wierd_w said:

I am open to suggestions...

I'd leave a cutout on the right-hand side metal backing behind the face place, in case someone wanted to mount some new tech like an I2C display for a TIPI, a temperature display or and HxC device.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One idea I have been toying with, is a "PEBestal"
 
Basically, a little pedestal that sits underneath the 99/4A, which connects to the sidecar bus on the side with a little wall, and which has a compartment inside under the 99 that has room for a single PEB card, and has various other useful thinks integrated (Speech, 32k, etc).
 
 
I think I could show a basic theory mockup by tonight of the PEBestal. I have just the thing in mind

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, --- Ω --- said:

I'd leave a cutout on the right-hand side metal backing behind the face place, in case someone wanted to mount some new tech like an I2C display for a TIPI, a temperature display or and HxC device.

 

Revisions to the original design (other than for purely fabrication-friendly reasons, as stated) are not the purpose of this exercise, but can be produced quickly and easily once the work is completed.

 

The purpose for this exercise is so that such new devices can be designed quickly and easily, as suitable digital reference information (and paper print versions as well) will be available to guide product design. Putting a knockout on would require modification to the PEB's front plastic plate as well. I would also need dimensions for the desired i2C display, so that an appropriate fitting and mounting arrangement could be implemented.

 

Right now, I am focused on getting this thing modeled as accurately as possible.  Producing "RepliPEBs" with fancy new features becomes plausible AFTER reverse-engineering the original. :P

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, wierd_w said:

Right now, I am focused on getting this thing modeled as accurately as possible.  Producing "RepliPEBs" with fancy new features becomes plausible AFTER reverse-engineering the original. :P

A completely understandable position on the design aspect.  My thought was simply a universal sized cutout behind the faceplate.  I figured it would be up to the individual user to make modifications/alterations (if any) to the front panel itself.  This would eliminate the need for any future design changes on your part.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, I won Globeron's PEB auction. (as the only bidder. That's kinda sad. I am tempted to send the man some bills in the mail to cover the international shipping)

 

Last night, I spent a little time contemplating how to section up the front plastic bezel of the PEB so that a 3D printed replica could be produced.  I have decided that I can do it in 7 sections, and still have a somewhat pleasing cosmetic result. 

 

My printer has an 8" bed, and the width of the PEB front cover is ~7 inches, which theoretically should work out OK.  (Again, my ghetto chinese clone of the Prusia A3 is a bit janky.)

 

This is still in the theoretical stage, as I have not printed anything yet, and am still doing the modeling to make this happen, but here's the thought-concept for the "Fingered socket" I intend to use to lock the pieces together.

Looks like I need to move the socket over a little bit, because that is too close to the edge. (Only noticed now that I made the section view...)

 

The idea is for some little "finger" tabs with hook tabs on the ends will collide with the angle of the inside of the socket, and get bent over, and lodge behind the hook on the inside of the socket.  Thus, the parts will stick together permanently.  There will be 2 layers, which overlap, so that the seams in the printed parts are reinforced.  The idea is to supplement with a strong slow-set flexible adhesive.

 

pebfrontWIP.thumb.png.ca54afdca8da7154e4c9c7cbfe1a1cc2.pngPEBFrontWIP2.thumb.png.373cd81c8f3b21851251259848dbd7c5.png

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I now have 4 of the 7 components of the front bezel modeled with all the little fingered sockets in place.  Next are the backing parts, with the fingers.

 

Initial slicing through Cura shows that my printer should be able to print them with a 5mm wide brim, just barely.  The longest running part with the slicer settings I provided is ~2 days print time.. So, printing the front bezel looks like an approximately 2 week long ordeal. It will also use an insane amount of material.

 

Regardless, I intend to start doing a print test.  By the time that shiny new PEB arrives in the mail, I want to have a prototype RepliPEB bezel ready for test fitting.  If it fits, I will release the print models. If not, I will do necessary revisions, test print AGAIN, and repeat until I get it to fit properly.

 

The material I will use is black PETG. It prints about the same as the PLA, but is higher temperature.  I don't have enough of my preferred material for something like this (nylon) on hand. We'll see how well it works.

 

I have the weekend off (YAY), so I will continue with the sheet metal parts after I finish the remaining 3 parts of the plastic front.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

20191202_212335.thumb.jpg.94f7171d6e19f80537c333ccd17a7ed4.jpgThe petg did not want to cooperate. Had to settle with PLA.

 

That said, heres the first set. These are the front side that have female sockets on the back.

 

I still need to do the fingered back panels and glue them all together.

 

When Globerons peb arrives i can verify screw hole placement and fitting.

 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How does that stuff hold up to acetone or sandpaper?  I figure getting the bumps out and getting it real smooth before applying silver spray paint might be nice.  After that, make replica decals with waterslide paper on an inkjet printer.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PLA resists every solvent known to mankind just about.  Its weakness is heat. (It deforms on contact with hot water. No shittin.)

 

It sands well.  These were set with a high layer thickness as a prototype stage.  Proof products will print at the previously cited "2 days to print per section" duration, and will have a much finer height, and additional top layers.  I am wanting to verify  my CAD data at this stage, and or-- work out any bugs with the assembly.

 

I am unsure about the PETG.  The PETG did not want to adhere to my build plate, even with PVA glue painted on.  Most frustrating. Nylon sticks no problems, as does the PLA.  For a part that fills the whole build area, good adhesion is not something I can compromise on.

 

My preferred material for something like this (Durable surface that needs to accept threaded screws in the back) is nylon.  Nylon resists all solvents, but degrades on exposure to strong acids. Sands like shit. (leaves "shreds" on the surface).  For Nylon finish proof parts, I would use something like featherfill, sand that, then paint.

 

Edited by wierd_w
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been giving some thought to the power supply issue.

 

Here's the thoughts so far--  There are "Universal Laptop Cords" (ahem) that supply ~19v at quite a few amps, DC.  That would be nearly PERFECT for using DC-DC regulators to derive the voltages needed for the PEB.

 

Take for instance, this rather inexpensive one.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/iGo-90W-Universal-Laptop-Charger/23703025

 

It has a keyed DC plug, which is *supposed* to accept little nibs for the various devices out there.  If instead, there was a receptacle for just that plug, it would provide a nice, regulated 19V DC, keyed so you can't bodge it. From there, an internal DC-DC converter setup can derive the needed rails, which could be fabbed on some perfboard.

 

If not that supply, then one similar to it, since laptop chargers tend to all output ~19V.  I just need to spec one that is ubiquitous, cheap, and outputs reliable 19V at sufficient wattage.

 

 

ALTERNATIVELY--

 

Internal PSU, that uses a 24V LED driver as the base, followed by said DC-DC converters.  Such as this badboy.

https://www.amazon.com/ABI-Supply-Outdoor-Rainproof-Weatherproof/dp/B01IU8QBCO?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_2

 

Sadly, it is only 82% energy efficient, and thus "Illegal" by CA's new standards.  Finding a suitable DC supply might be tricky. :(

 

Not sure how efficient this one is, but it looks potentially useful too.

https://www.amazon.com/LEDENET-220VAC-Switching-Supply-Converter/dp/B00OLYAGSC?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_7

 

Has fancy voltage output adjustment pot.

 

 

Edited by wierd_w
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have been giving some thought to the power supply issue.
 
Here's the thoughts so far--  There are "Universal Laptop Cords" (ahem) that supply ~19v at quite a few amps, DC.  That would be nearly PERFECT for using DC-DC regulators to derive the voltages needed for the PEB.
 
Take for instance, this rather inexpensive one.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/iGo-90W-Universal-Laptop-Charger/23703025
 
It has a keyed DC plug, which is *supposed* to accept little nibs for the various devices out there.  If instead, there was a receptacle for just that plug, it would provide a nice, regulated 19V DC, keyed so you can't bodge it. From there, an internal DC-DC converter setup can derive the needed rails, which could be fabbed on some perfboard.
 
If not that supply, then one similar to it, since laptop chargers tend to all output ~19V.  I just need to spec one that is ubiquitous, cheap, and outputs reliable 19V at sufficient wattage.
 
 
ALTERNATIVELY--
 
Internal PSU, that uses a 24V LED driver as the base, followed by said DC-DC converters.  Such as this badboy.
https://www.amazon.com/ABI-Supply-Outdoor-Rainproof-Weatherproof/dp/B01IU8QBCO?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_2
 
Sadly, it is only 82% energy efficient, and thus "Illegal" by CA's new standards.  Finding a suitable DC supply might be tricky.
 
Not sure how efficient this one is, but it looks potentially useful too.
https://www.amazon.com/LEDENET-220VAC-Switching-Supply-Converter/dp/B00OLYAGSC?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_7
 
Has fancy voltage output adjustment pot.
 
 
Would an ATX1 power supply do? If so I can send you one or more. I adapted my first TI power lines into a Molex socket (not the standard pinout) for ease of use.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not enough benefit, extra complexity in the system, more to fail.

 

The LED driver is slimmer, probably more efficient.  Leaves more room in the bay for the necessary voltage regulation circuitry to provide the oddball voltages the PEB uses.

 

 

Each PEB card is specc'd to have its own voltage regulators, and thus need GREATER than +12v, +5V, and pals.  IIRC, it's +8V +16V and -16V supplied by the PEB.

 

 

One thing I have been considering is implementing "Automotive type" bladed fuses for the voltage rails to each slot. That way if a card creeps out of the socket and shorts, or some other mishap happens, it will burn that fuse on that rail, to that slot-- restricting the damage.

Edited by wierd_w
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Not enough benefit, extra complexity in the system, more to fail.
 
The LED driver is slimmer, probably more efficient.  Leaves more room in the bay for the necessary voltage regulation circuitry to provide the oddball voltages the PEB uses.
 
 
Each PEB card is specc'd to have its own voltage regulators, and thus need GREATER than +12v, +5V, and pals.  IIRC, it's +8V +16V and -16V supplied by the PEB.
All right, well if you run into a missing component lemme know. I just found a few more.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...