At long last - a source for pre-built Analog Thumbstick Controllers

[+DrVenkman]

Introducing Maker-Matrix, our site for sales and support of @smbaker's amazing analog thumbstick controllers.  

 

EDIT: We have 20 units built and ready to sell; once those are gone we will accept a limited number of back-orders but rest assured we intend to continue building so long as there is demand. 

 

https://www.maker-matrix.com/

 

EDIT #2: And it looks like we are sold out of left-stick models and into backorders already! Wow, thank you all for the support! We will get these shipped this week, and for backorders, we will get them into work and into your hands as soon as we can! We still have right-stick units ready and available immediately. As of 11/12/2019, we have sufficient boards and parts on order for delivery within a week to begin building out our current back-orders and get started on more for future orders!

 

EDIT #3: Tech stuff and troubleshooting tips!

 

First, the fun stuff! Please, if you're at all interested in the controllers, watch @smbaker's introductory video. Scott explains how Atari's analog controller circuit works, how it's replicated in his board design, and then demonstrates several games. It's 13-1/2 minutes that are well worth your time. 

 

 

Next, some troubleshooting tips.  As I noted above in Scott's video - and apologies but it bears repeating - the controllers and the way the POKEY chip in the Atari work are analog rather than digital values. So there is always going to be a range of values to indicate "how much Left", "how much Right," "how much Up," and "how much Down", instead of a simple LEFT=Yes, UP=Yes, etc. for a digital signal. So in a 5200 controller, whether vintage or newly built, each and every stick is an analog component and will have some variability, and each of those little capacitors used on the new controller boards have a 5% tolerance. So ... to belabor the point a bit, that gives us some little bits of difference in behavior from console to console and controller to controller.

 

Fortunately, most 5200 games seem to be written to accept a little "slop" in the values of the "how much Left"/"how much Right" etc. signals they are getting from the system and translating into movement and as Scott shows in the video, some of them even seem to self-calibrate upon first starting up a game.  Even more fortunately, the Atari designers - knowing controllers will be somewhat inconsistent and that the timing capacitors inside the POKEY are also inconsistent - built the POKEY Adjust Resistor (R132) into the design. This can be adjusted to improve controller response and get the specifications of both the controllers and the specific POKEY chip inside the console to line up better. The procedure using an official Atari Diagnostic Cart or the unofficial but much more widely available Pete's Test Cart is set out in the official Field Service Manual, and it's the same for both 4-port and 2-port 5200 models. However, in the absence of a copy of Pete's Test Cart or the Diagnostic Cart (which are likely overkill for most casual gamers), the very common game MISSILE COMMAND works as a pretty good substitute. Plug in your MISSILE COMMAND cart and your controller. If the POKEY Adjust Resistor is set in the correct range, the cursor should be more or less centered on-screen. Even though a self-centering controller is really not ideal for a game like MISSILE COMMAND, it does test the full range of the analog controller very well since the cursor is so big and obvious on-screen. If you unplug the controller, the cursor will jump immediately to the lower right. Plugging a controller back into a properly-adjusted console will put the cursor immediately back to center.

 

Here is a photo of R132, the POKEY Adjust, circled in red at lower right:

 

 

It must be stressed: please use care if adjusting the POKEY Resistor! Especially this time of year when humidity is low, be sure to discharge any static electricity before you open the cover, and be very sure when turning the plastic knob that you don’t short any nearby electrical components!
 

Finally, one possible issue is a loose or badly-fitting extension cable. Ensure the console end of the cable is inserted fully and securely into the controller jack, and that no pins on your jack are bent or damaged.
 

Also, if you move the controller around vigorously or yank it during use, the cable will likely begin to work free of the controller. Frankly this is a shortcoming of classic game console extension cables when used with new-made devices. The original Atari systems used plugs with a large surface area to insert into the relatively deep Atari 5200 controller jacks. So extension cables are similarly deep on each end to match. However, modern DB15 connectors of the type used in this controller are shallow, and intended for use with cables using screw-connectors. Unfortunately, the connector end on the console doesn't have screw connectors and - being a deep design - won't support or hold onto a modern DB15 cable with screw terminals. So, the situation we have as modern fans is that our extension cables may work free with time. In personal use I found this is much less common when the controller is held in a proper case than when the board is used "bare." Some people who've built their own boards have used a bead of hot-glue around the outside of the controller jack to secure the cable semi-permanently to the jack. One solution - used by me personally - is to buy a Monoprice DB15 male-to-female cable, attach it to the controller via screw-terminals which then goes to a classic 15-pin extension cable, which is then plugged into the 5200. You end up with a very long cable but the large amount of slack ensures the two cable ends are undisturbed and remain firmly connected. We are currently investigating future revisions to either the case or the PCB board design to mitigate this issue entirely but have nothing yet ready to announce.

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by DrVenkman
Troubleshooting tips & tricks

[atari-dna]

Are the kits available as a parts lit for those who can do the assembly? Would there be a discount for parts-only lots?

[+DrVenkman]

9 minutes ago, atari-dna said:

Are the kits available as a parts lit for those who can do the assembly? Would there be a discount for parts-only lots?

Kits are not available currently. The bill of materials is available from Scott's site (link can be found via Google or in our product description page). DIY'ers can source parts themselves and we will sell cases and buttons independently.

[atari-dna]

Cool. I’ll be ordering a case and button package once they become available [emoji3]

[Swami]

ordered!

[+sramirez2008]

Ordered!

[+DrVenkman]

Thanks everyone here, and in the retro-groups for your support! We will get your orders shipped ASAP. For the first dozen or so left stick units, that will be this week. Parts for back-ordered left-stick units will be ordered, cases printed and assembly started as soon as we can! This is a good problem to have, and we appreciate everyone's patience while we build out remaining orders.

 

And to reiterate, we will continue to build controllers as long as demand exists!

[ledzep]

On 11/9/2019 at 1:31 PM, DrVenkman said:

Introducing Maker-Matrix, our site for sales and support of @smbaker's amazing analog thumbstick controllers. 

 

EDIT: We have 20 units built and ready to sell; once those are gone we will accept a limited number of back-orders but rest assured we intend to continue building so long as there is demand. 

 

https://www.maker-matrix.com/

 

EDIT #2: And it looks like we are sold out of left-stick models and into backorders already! Wow, thank you all for the support! We will get these shipped this week, and for backorders, we will get them into work and into your hands as soon as we can! We still have right-stick units ready and available immediately.  

 

Cool design!  What are the odds that you could make an alternate version that has the keyboard big enough to hold game overlays?  I'm assuming the current design doesn't allow for that based on no pics of your current controllers with overlays on them.

[+DrVenkman]

2 hours ago, ledzep said:

 

Cool design!  What are the odds that you could make an alternate version that has the keyboard big enough to hold game overlays?  I'm assuming the current design doesn't allow for that based on no pics of your current controllers with overlays on them.

Well, it wasn't really considered for this design but I'm certain something can be worked out. It would need smaller/low profile buttons and some kind of molded-in ridge to hold the overlay. It will possibly be a bit more tricky to print but that's my partner's expertise, not mine. We'll discuss it for a future revision.

 

***

In the meantime, we are humbled by the enthusiasm of the community for these! We are well into back-orders now for left-stick versions, though I do think we have a handful (1 -2 last time I checked) right-stick versions completed. We are just about to close our back-orders for now simply to ensure we don't get too terribly far behind. However, we do intend to open orders again once the back-orders are built down, cases/buttons printed, etc.  

[+DrVenkman]

Boards and parts are now on order for our back ordered controllers and to build additional stock once this current crush is taken care of.  

[TyrionXavier]

On 11/12/2019 at 7:44 AM, DrVenkman said:

Boards and parts are now on order for our back ordered controllers and to build additional stock once this current crush is taken care of.  

I would love to buy 2 of these, but you won't ship to Canada.  Can I make a special order somehow?

[+DrVenkman]

1 hour ago, TyrionXavier said:

I would love to buy 2 of these, but you won't ship to Canada.  Can I make a special order somehow?

We've had past bad experiences trying to ship to Canada - postage is crazy expensive and there are always seemingly bizarre issues with Customs. Grrr. I'm sorry. I think @Shawn is selling pre-built boards in Canada. As for cases, I think someone in the original thread of Scott's posted the STL files for his version of a case.

[sirlynxalot]

Ah darn, I thought the price point for these was going to be around $50. I appreciate the engineering and manufacturing effort put into the controllers, but for me personally, I'll have to wait and think about buying rather than having these as a must buy now. 

[Shawn]

2 hours ago, sirlynxalot said:

Ah darn, I thought the price point for these was going to be around $50. I appreciate the engineering and manufacturing effort put into the controllers, but for me personally, I'll have to wait and think about buying rather than having these as a must buy now. 

 

You are joking right? Saying they are $50 items is outright insulting to any and all who designed, programmed, printed or is willing to build them. You might want to gather a little more info in the future before making such diminishing statements. At $100 each plus shipping these are not able to be kept in stock.

 

$50 my left foot.

 

[deepthaw]

Wish the fire buttons on the left-stick version weren't so close to the two start/reset/pause buttons. Still, one of these will probably be a gift to myself this Christmas.

[sirlynxalot]

39 minutes ago, Shawn said:

 

You are joking right? Saying they are $50 items is outright insulting to any and all who designed, programmed, printed or is willing to build them. You might want to gather a little more info in the future before making such diminishing statements. At $100 each plus shipping these are not able to be kept in stock.

 

$50 my left foot.

 

Sorry, I really wasn't trying to be insulting. I guess I misunderstood a post on page 11 in the homemade 5200 controller thread where you responded to a question about price and said it would be $50 to build a new modern controller. In retrospect, I take it that was a price for assembling the components on the circuit board and not a price for a complete controller. 

Edited November 15, 2019 by sirlynxalot

[Shawn]

23 minutes ago, sirlynxalot said:

Sorry, I really wasn't trying to be insulting. I guess I misunderstood a post on page 11 in the homemade 5200 controller thread where you responded to a question about price and said it would be $50 to build a new modern controller. In retrospect, I take it that was a price for assembling the components on the circuit board and not a price for a complete controller. 

 

Correct about the assembly. The parts and shipping alone are upwards of $50 one at a time. Bulk is the only way to make a go at it. Especially if you are buying international. It's all good, shit happens.

[Swami]

I got mine last night, but didn't have time to test it. It looks and holds very nice and the buttons are very clicky. Thank you for doing this.

 

As a field tester, I would offer one suggestion, which may or may not be practical: It may be because I have small hands, but, although the fire 1 button and thumbstick are perfectly placed, the fire 2 button is a bit of a stretch to reach and would be improved by being put at more of an SNES angle or at least half-way there. Maybe the fire 1 could be moved slightly towards center to accomodate this or the board could be 1/4" longer. Like I said, may not be practical at this point and itis not like I can't reach it.

[Shawn]

3 minutes ago, Swami said:

I got mine last night, but didn't have time to test it. It looks and holds very nice and the buttons are very clicky. Thank you for doing this.

 

As a field tester, I would offer one suggestion, which may or may not be practical: It may be because I have small hands, but, although the fire 1 button and thumbstick are perfectly placed, the fire 2 button is a bit of a stretch to reach and would be improved by being put at more of an SNES angle or at least half-way there. Maybe the fire 1 could be moved slightly towards center to accomodate this or the board could be 1/4" longer. Like I said, may not be practical at this point and itis not like I can't reach it.

 

There are multiple possible placements for the fire buttons. That would require Dr. Venkman's friend to rework the 3d printing file but the options are there on the pcb already from Dr. Baker. 

[+DrVenkman]

8 hours ago, Swami said:

As a field tester, I would offer one suggestion, which may or may not be practical: It may be because I have small hands, but, although the fire 1 button and thumbstick are perfectly placed, the fire 2 button is a bit of a stretch to reach and would be improved by being put at more of an SNES angle or at least half-way there. Maybe the fire 1 could be moved slightly towards center to accomodate this or the board could be 1/4" longer. Like I said, may not be practical at this point and itis not like I can't reach it.

We will look into that. We are to some extent constrained by the location of the existing pads - they are sized for several locations for each of a couple different button designs. However, the printed fire buttons are substantially larger than the switch mech buttons. We might be able to move the printed second button somewhat closer to the first without altering the PCB layout and assembly. 
 

In any case, thanks for the feedback and we hope you enjoy using it!

Edited November 16, 2019 by DrVenkman
typos

[+DrVenkman]

Now that I’m home from work and have a bit more time, let me add a couple more bits about the fire buttons.  First off, if you prefer to swap the assignment of the primary and secondary fire buttons on the controller, you can open up the case (BE CAREFUL NOT TO SCATTER THE BUTTONS TO HELL AND GONE! ? ) and change the orientation of the JP1 jumpers to this orientation. This will put the primary fire button to the lower button and the secondary to the upper button. 
 

 

Second, the setting of JP4 (the lower of the two in the photo) determines which button is registered by a downward click of the thumbstick. If it’s set this way, it’s the secondary button rather than the primary button. 

 

 

Hope this helps some folks find a good arrangement that works for them. 

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by DrVenkman
typos

[Shawn]

On 11/13/2019 at 4:18 PM, TyrionXavier said:

I would love to buy 2 of these, but you won't ship to Canada.  Can I make a special order somehow?

 

I will have one completed controller with 3d housing to offer soon if you want it. Exact same price as Dr. Venkman would have charged you.

[MakerMatrix]

On 11/13/2019 at 3:18 PM, TyrionXavier said:

I would love to buy 2 of these, but you won't ship to Canada.  Can I make a special order somehow?

I finally had a chance to look into Canadian shipping.  We should be able to offer International First Class shipping through USPS.  I've updated all the controller goodies to offer that service to our Canadian friends.

[TyrionXavier]

On 11/17/2019 at 9:13 PM, MakerMatrix said:

I finally had a chance to look into Canadian shipping.  We should be able to offer International First Class shipping through USPS.  I've updated all the controller goodies to offer that service to our Canadian friends.

Thank you very much, placing back order now.

[TyrionXavier]

On 11/15/2019 at 11:08 PM, Shawn said:

 

I will have one completed controller with 3d housing to offer soon if you want it. Exact same price as Dr. Venkman would have charged you.

Thanks!  I'd go for that too