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I know that the PlayStation 2. Plays pretty much all games for the PlayStation one except I believe seven individual titles,. and a couple titles don't work on the newer PlayStation twos but only on the older ones.

 

I know one of the advertising pointing to the Playstation 2 was that you could go back and use your old games and accessories.

 

For stuff like negcons, justifiers,  gun cons you use those with PlayStation 1 games and certain compatible PS2 games when using a PlayStation 2 to play the disc.

 

Same with multi taps PlayStation 2 multi-tap use the PS2 multi-tap will PS1 games on a PS2 use a PS1 multi-tap.  Same with memory cards.  even though PS2 memory cards could hold PS1 memory you have to transfer to PS one card to actually use it.

 

the tricky part is that PlayStation 1 and 2 controllers I heard or both forwardly and backwardly compatible for most games. 

 

I heard there are quite a few games that work with a standard PS1 pad, and that the only games that required a DualShock 2 were games that had the analog button features. Anything with digital buttons but use but required the analog sticks could use a DualShock 1 ot dualshock 2.

 

I guess the way the analog pads and buttons work when using digital is It's All or Nothing.  Some games were perfectly fine with digital buttons and joystick other games it's a performance inhibitor and some are impossible.

 

but I heard the reverse is true to that you could use DualShock 2 on any PlayStation 1 game, eithet on a real PlayStation 1, or Playstation 2 playing PlayStation 1 games.  I remember the packages said PS1 / PS2 after the first year when they were consolidating because it was just too expensive to make both DualShock ones a DualShock twos, kind of like the exact reason why black and white TVs died in the 70s.

 

I assume different games read buttons differently and joysticks differently.  like some games will read the slightest touch of the analog button or stick and give you 100% pressure when converting to digital.  Others just look at the grossest bit: is it pressed over halfway or no? Finally some games require full actuation to actuate a button.   It depends on how the original game was coded.  luckily any game that has trouble with analog sticks with DualShock ones set digital only mode.

 

So basic questions if you have 8 DualShock 2...

 

... are there any games worth keeping DualShock ones and or original controllers for.  That suffer on a PS2 playing a PS1 game or real PS1?

 

... Finally what is the most I'll need to keep?  I need to know that so I'm popular local retro game parties.

 

 

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I noticed that there are three pairs controllers, that seem to have the same foot pedal input as each other.

 

Should I assume that all foot paddles are inner compatible with each other that's it as part of the same company?


First of all I got to interact V3s one for PlayStation 1 ( and maybe some PS2) and the other for the N64 called a v3fx.

First of all is the N64 version the Nintendo authorized one can't tell because I didn't have the original box?  Or is it like Beeshu joysticks in that regard we're basically nothing is different in markings or electronics between the official one and knock off one except the packaging.  

 

One is a Model SV1118, and that's the official PS1 version,. And the other is an SV380A.  Would either of them just work just as well on either one of them?  Both of them look like they have the similar S-Video style connector, but not exactly.  

 

Similar question with Mad Catz mc2 steering wheel foot pedals.  one is model 4520 and has the official Xbox logo.  The other is model 4720 and does not.  

Both have similar Atari style hookups with the PC screws on the side.  360 wheel has an Xbox logo on the guide button.

 

Finally I have only one set of Logitech pedals, but two devices that use them.  A PlayStation 2 era Gran Turismo USB wheel,. Back when Sony could not legally put a PlayStation logo on any USB product.  And a GameCube racing wheel.

 

I only have one that came with the PlayStation.  I think I tested out by petals with the Nintendo version and it does work.

 

I understand warranties are long gone for these systems ,but if I were to use them back in the day would interchanging foot pedals with the same hook up and same company violate my Nintendo or Playstation  or Xbox warranty?

 

Also are either version of the ones I have duplicated more or less valuable than the other?

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I merged your three threads into one, and I deleted the second because it was a duplicate of the first.  You already have too many open threads about game controllers; please do not start any more.

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My general plan for controllers: one for every port, plus 1-2 as backups in case of failure. Match controllers to systems to help mitigate weird issues that turn up as systems age.

 

So, for you, I'd say 3 PS1 dualshock & 3 PS2 dualshock. Unless you have multi taps, then 5 each. If they are cross-compatible (wasn't aware of that), you'll have plenty of backups that way.

 

All first party, of course- third party can be less reliable, especially if you're not using on the intended console.

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18 hours ago, jaybird3rd said:

I merged your three threads into one, and I deleted the second because it was a duplicate of the first.  You already have too many open threads about game controllers; please do not start any more.

Sorry about that I didn't know if they were too different to need separate posts or two similar to warrant the same posts.  if I need to do that again do I put like the main post in a general category and post cross-links to the category would like a one or two sentences scription on the system specific categories?  

 

It was specific to 3 systems Plus general enough but not of interest to non collectors of the other sisters.  I didn't want PlayStation owners reading about the Genesis thing or vice versa and take up their time.

 

By the way, here's the genesis topicbi had. I FINALLY lrarned how to highlight a URL on Android. Here it is:

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/298365-consolidating-my-controller-collection-part-1-genesis/

 

Edited by tripletopper
Shortening to a link.

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On 11/10/2019 at 9:07 PM, jaybird3rd said:

I merged your three threads into one, and I deleted the second because it was a duplicate of the first.  You already have too many open threads about game controllers; please do not start any more.

Rather ironic considering this is about consolidating controller collections.

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I bought and successfully installed atariage user nurmix's external extension cords for Intellivision.

 

Any hope for exercisers for the Odyssey 2 hardwired edition or the Emerson Arcadia 2001?  

 

I heard Odyssey uses nine pin, and can use the same joysticks is Atari 2600.  (Don't know if I believe it ).

 

My Odyssey to control looks like it has a lot of sliding room, therefore it could possibly be analog.  

 

What would one do to have a custom  joystick work for the Emerson?  My custom joystick used for fighting games has 18 input pins, 18 ground pins, and 1 voltage pin in a db37.

 

Am I right there are only four directions one action button mirror on both sides and 12 keypad buttons for a total of 17 inputs?  Or is the disc more like an intellivision having 16 way control?  

 

 

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I believe the odyssey2 was originally released with external controller ports.  They have standard DE9 connectors but a different pinout from the atari 2600.  Atari 2600 joysticks are otherwise compatible, any 8-way arcade joystick would be compatible.  Not sure if there is an internal connector but you could easily cut the cable and install DE9 connectors yourself.  You can even get solderless connectors that you can hook up with a screwdriver.

 

The Arcadia 2001 is different.  The hardware supports two axis analog joystick input but is reduced to digital input for 8-way control.  The schematic is difficult to understand.  The side buttons are the same as keypad 2.  Each controller cable has eleven wires so you might have to go with DA15 connectors.

Edited by mr_me

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When you open the odyssey2 you'll see two six pin controller connector ports on the main board.  (ground, fire, left, down, right, up)

Edited by mr_me

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The Nurmix adapter had you open the case and replace hard wired INTV controllers with a 9 pin of the INTV2, ( and with rearrangements, a flashback)

 

Someone can copy a nurmix adapter and make it fir the hardwired o2.

 

As for the Arcadia, should i assume the keypad is matricized ( hopefully simple like INTV and 5200 with row pins and column pins, and not Colecovision logic which thankfully Edladdin solved. ) So a 5200 controller and a Bohoki adapter should work.  Or a PC 15 pin NES style digital pad and a custom keypad layout.

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I have 8 PS2 dual shock 2d by going to the 'Ken Awesome place, Goodwill and their ilk.

 

I have a few PS1 Dual Shock 1s and a few PS1 digitals.

 

i know there are a few minor incompatible games occasionally, like 10 or less PS1 titles not working in PS2s.  Using Multitap 1s for PS2 games on PS2,  and Multitap 2s for PS2 games.  Also memory cards should stick to their Strict System.

 

Are there any PS1 games that either objectively do not work with PS2 dualshock 2, or have a radically different enough feel with a PS2 controller that you might want to compare.  

 

Based on what I heard at the time,  most PS1 games take the coursest pressure sensor bit, meaning halfway or more is on less than half is off.  Others require full pressure to activate the analog buttons.  Still others even the slightest pressure would activate buttons.  Those ate the only 3 ways one could convert a Dualshock 2 for PS1 games.  Therefore it is software specific.

 

is there some sort of weblist about which games exhibit which behavior with DualShock twos?

 

I'm just checking to see whether DualShock ones and digital Joypads are useless space eaters in a collection, or have some gameplay value even today.

 

 

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The arcadia keypad has three column pins and four row pins but unlike other controllers each set of pins alternate as ground for the other.  The arcadia controllers don't have a common ground.

 

You can find an arcadia schematic here.  https://console5.com/wiki/Arcadia_2001

Edited by mr_me

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Dude, you already asked us if PS1 dualshocks were worth keeping a month ago. You really should've bumped that thread instead.

 

Dualshocks aren't especially different from one another. If the game runs on a PS2, it'll play with a PS2 dualshock. Even if it's not supposed to run on a PS2 but does (like my copy of Tomba), it'll play fine with a PS2 dualshock. Most PS2 games didn't even bother with the analog buttons anyway- the only one I know is Mad Maestro, and it barely works there to begin with. 

 

If you have a PS1, keep up to 5 PS1 dualshocks (depending on your useage.)

If you have a PS2, keep up to 5 PS2 dualshocks (depending on your useage.)

Keep digital-only PS1 pads as a novelty or for nostalgia.

If the above sounds wrong, then do something else- whatever makes you happy with your controller horde.

 

You're overthinking this.

Edited by HoshiChiri
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1.  I have 8 dusp shock 2s for 8 player games.

 

2.  I just wanted to see if any ps1 games were funny with a Dual Shock 2. I heard all digital only ps1 games work with Dual Shock 1s.  I was just unaware of DualShock 2 perfromance quirks.

 

I know all PS2 games are designed to work with Dual Shock 1s unless "pressure sensitive buttons" is indicated.  And PS2 digital-only games work with a standard PS1 controller.

 

The only issue i may see is how the analog buttons are read, (100% pressure only actuates, 50%+ for actuating, or barely any pressure for actuation.) On PS1 games plsyed on a real PS1 vs a PS2.

 

I know of 3 six-button Genesis exceptions that I have, Ms Pac Man, Forgotten Worlds, and Wheel of Fortune CD.  And I have 2 Colecovision Super Action exceptions. Just seeing if there are any DS2 exceptions.

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6 hours ago, HoshiChiri said:

Dude, you already asked us if PS1 dualshocks were worth keeping a month ago. You really should've bumped that thread instead.

Agreed.  You have already been asked, tripletopper, to refrain from starting any additional threads about game controllers; it seems as if you already have at least one in almost every subforum on AtariAge.  I have retitled this thread and merged the three posts from your new thread into it, along with the posts from yet another new thread on the Odyssey² and Arcadia.

 

Again, no new game controller threads.  If you continue to ignore this warning, you will be placed back on moderator preview.

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1 hour ago, jaybird3rd said:

Agreed.  You have already been asked, tripletopper, to refrain from starting any additional threads about game controllers; it seems as if you already have at least one in almost every subforum on AtariAge.  I have retitled this thread and merged the three posts from your new thread into it, along with the posts from yet another new thread on the Odyssey² and Arcadia.

 

Again, no new game controller threads.  If you continue to ignore this warning, you will be placed back on moderator preview

Well, isn't categorizing suoposed to be a funnel to reach specific interests.  Even though there are manty controller posts, what's an easier read, discussing controller compatibiity in Playstation Specific sub fourm, and the Odyssey and Arcadia externalizers in a general classic forum?  

 

If i follow  the supposed rule of "do not monopolize recents"  then I'll have really long posts that goes on forever where half or more of the info is irrelavent to at least half the people who click.

 

And the titles are specific enough not to fraudulently suck viewers in with clickbait.

 

What's easier, specifying a subject well enough to not get false clicks or a catch all post just to not monopolize recents.

 

Also, as an example I use,  a different forum, Shoryuken.com , prefers new posts over resurrecting old posts I know forums are different enough to have different minor rules. 

 

It's just that Shoryuken has low priority for Pre NES stuff and other stuff not specific enough to fight games/ joysticks. 

 

Atariage has become a general purpose forum sbout home video games.  I assume you have different categories of focus to reach relevant readers.  So a Coleco fan doesn't have to read about Intellivision unless it's related ENOUGH  to Colecovision.

 

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7 hours ago, HoshiChiri said:

Most PS2 games didn't even bother with the analog buttons anyway- the only one I know is Mad Maestro, and it barely works there to begin with. 

A bunch of earlier titles took advantage of it when it was seen as this new, cool, unique concept. That was before everyone realized it was crap and most games dropped it.

 

7 hours ago, HoshiChiri said:

You're overthinking this.

Agreed. Times ten.

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32 minutes ago, tripletopper said:

Well, isn't categorizing suoposed to be a funnel to reach specific interests.  Even though there are manty controller posts, what's an easier read, discussing controller compatibiity in Playstation Specific sub fourm, and the Odyssey and Arcadia externalizers in a general classic forum?  

...

Atariage has become a general purpose forum sbout home video games.  I assume you have different categories of focus to reach relevant readers.  So a Coleco fan doesn't have to read about Intellivision unless it's related ENOUGH  to Colecovision.

 

Basically, if what you're asking could be relevant to something you've asked within a month or so, bump the previous thread. Atariage is down with some fairly impressive necrothreads if you're saying something notable.

 

I see two threads in your posts: one about technical details for older controllers, and one about quirks of dualshocks.

 

Don't worry about being too granular- we're all here for love of retro. If stopping by to check on Dualshock-related queries results in me learning about Arcadia schematics, I will not be upset. If a thread fragments, we can start new ones for newly emerged topics.

Edited by HoshiChiri

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Well now i see the topic is changed so this is on topic ENOUGH to not make a new topic. .)

 

There are many devices which turn discrete digital joystick buttons (meaning each pin is one signal) into a functional copy of controls for lots of systems from NES to Switch, PS4 and Xbox One, as well as PC USB.  However, they all cover the same few systems.  The ones usually bot covered are Genesis 3 and 6, N64, Master System, Wii Classic, and any system not made by neither Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, nor Sega other than TG16.  So what do you do if you want to play OTHER ststems?

 

Some systems, which have one wire for each cardinal and diagonal, like the Astrocade, Sega Master System, Neo Geo, and possibly the 2600 booster grip, but if not, the basic 2600 can use straight control to port hookup.  All other systems use coding to fit more data on the pins.

 

I heard the easiest way (and the lowest ping way) to hook up controller is to wire the controls into a certain part of a disassembled controller PCB directly and remotely actuate the control.

 

Anyone who knows how to use a soldering gun can look at a diagram and solder the wires to act as remote actuator.

 

Maybe this is a good sub-page for wiring guides on controllers not covered by multiconsole PCBs.

 

Here are N64, Sega Genesis 3 and 6 button pad hacking diagrams: (i don't know how to add them where I want to put them on an Android)

 

There are a couple other systems that could use existing modern retro game market PCBs, like Edladdin's CV and 7800 PCB.  ( Also there's a genesis to 7800 adapter, but then,  there's the ping issue.)

 

The 2 largest holes in the system ( at least that I have) are 3DO and Jaguar.  I looked on google under the term "3DO/Jaguar pad hacking diagram fight stick" and unable ti gind pictures.

 

Help?!

.

n64_diagram1.jpg

gen_diagram2.jpg

gen_diagram1.jpg

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On 12/9/2019 at 8:45 AM, HoshiChiri said:

....

Keep digital-only PS1 pads as a novelty or for nostalgia.

....

Heresy .... I bought my PS1 when digital-only was all that was available and once the DualShock came about I hated it.

I want my arcade racing games to have an on-off digital accelerator and an on-off digital steering ... I am not even kidding I got pretty good at tapping accelerator/left/right as needed to obtain the effect I need to obtain (that is play within the rule of the game to my advantage), even if the replay seen from outside the cockpit makes all those "tapping the steering" look like the front wheels are having a bout of tourette.

Once you realize in Ridge Racing Revolution that you can perform a sliding corner rotating the other way you'll never want to use any analog (yeah, if done right in RRR you can slide-steer left by initiating the slide to the left but then push to the right with the car doing a 270 instead of the more natural 90 expected ... some physics those games had ;-) ).

 

To these days I am not a fan of analog controllers, at best they add a couple of notches between off/full-throttle (in truth I do like Mario64 tip-toeing around the sleeping plant) but they are a very pale replacement for all-in real controllers (full on steering wheels for racing , full one flight sticks for dog-fight/flying etc... etc....).

 

I even dislike the vibration feedback (aka small eccentric rotating at variable speeds) as it adds weight to the controller with little to no real benefit, it's not immersive, it's just distracting ... the controller I like the most is the Jap (and US 2nd version) Saturn Pad with 6 buttons (3x2) and 2 shoulder buttons, no analogs, no "rumble", no bs, pure bliss.

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I primarily use digital-only PS1 pads. Without the analog sticks on them, they are less bulky, lighter and more comfortable for me to use. I'll whip out a Dual Shock controller if I want to play something that uses the sticks, but most games I play just need the d-pad.

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Well, in full disclosure- I've never owned a digital PS1 pad & my PS1 gaming was almost entirely RPGs where it's not a big concern one way or another.

 

I guess if you've never had one, there's not a huge reason to seek one out, as you'd be used to the weight/shape of a dualshock & you can turn the analog on/off as needed... but there is clearly a case to made for the right person playing the right games to keep one around.

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Kind of surprised at the hating on the PS1 dual analog controllers, personally I don't like the original as it feels like a snappy knockoff of the SNES with a differing grip +2 buttons that the d-pad doesn't feel right on.  Not that the DS1 really changed it, but it does have that nice button to toggle between purely going between either choice so it's not like they force it.

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I wasn't hating on PS1 DualShock ones or PS1 standard controllers.  I'm keeping one of each anyway for myself possibly to for a regular multiplayer partner / opponent.  but if I do have enough local friends and family to play an 8 player game,. I just want to make sure that the other six being DualShock 2s would that be considered awful in some PS1 games.

 

Even though you could play Street Fighter with a pad, at least 75% of players say it's awful to play with the default pad.

 

And believe, it or not I have 2 3 button Genesis controllers for certain games and they want a third for one game.  Mrs Pac-Man and Forgotten worlds being the obvious two, and if I could find one free button, Wheel of Fortune Sega CD.  I still have my original Wii for the very few games that can't be played with either a GameCube or Wii u,. Namely active life games, dance dance revolution games,. and a couple games where you must use a GameCube pad and not a Wii Classic Controller,. Like Metal Slug Anthology.

 

I'm just asking this question because if for some strange reason someone wants the land party and we don't have enough Playstation controls,. I was wondering if there were any games that were considered all Fall with the DualShock 2 but could be remedied with it or DualShock 1 or standard controller.

 

the reason why I asked is because analog buttons are up to interpretation on a PS1.  If a PlayStation one game doesn't have specific code for DualShock 2 controllers,. Does it read the grossest bit meaning: over 50% is pressed and  under 50% is not. 

 

And since any even-numbered base does not have an exactly middle numeral without expressing the number as as 10 in that base, it's impossible to be exactly half.  If numbers run between 0 and 255 ( all possible 8 digit base 2 numbers ) 127 is just below half and is unpressed, 128 is just above half and is pressed.  What 49 way Joysticks do is define the middle 2 numbers is 0 and is considered a 3-bit joystick in X & Y.  8 possible positions with the middle to being zero, for both X and Y, making 7 in each axis.

 

frankly I was mostly a Sega guy and my brother and dad were mostly Nintendo guys but we both won each other over on our respective parts.

 

I would not be in the Sony ecosystem if it weren't for three things.(apppatent, Android chrome playing of the wrbsite won't let me sdd a collapsable tangentisl note.  So i'll indicatebit visually. With ^ yo start and v to end)

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

 

The first was a year or 2, when the Saturn stopped and the N64 was going slow.

 

The second was post Dreamcast when you only possible internet connection was dial-up or satellite,. and Xbox advertised AS A FEATURE it's not dial up compatible, and I was unsure of what the GameCube was doing (turned out the GameCube modem was basically the way to get Sega to make GameCube games, has phantasy Star online 1 + 2 being the only two games that are hard to replace when the servers go down.  (Yes there's Madden, but the least popular games to go back and play in the past or sports games,. But only if they're tied to a specific year of a pro league.  Blades of steel will be played forever,. Your average PlayStation men will not.  How many people would rather play 07 than 04?  Or the  reverse?)

 

And the third was basically my Dad buying a PlayStation 3 as the combined absolute cheapest and a great value considering the features Blu-ray player at the time and later 3D player. ( Do you know my Playstation 3 still plays my 3D discs despite the fact I have an Xbox One.  and more times the night the improvements made on the Xbox One prevent discs from playing that we did before rather than making certain previously incompatible discs compatible.  Yes my Xbox One does lock out certain 3D blu-rays.  Considering you have to either import or pirate to get quite a few and ever increasing 3D movies, why does Xbox One make it harder to play them?)

 

 

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

 

 

As you can see not much of a PlayStation fan. Just dabbled and was serious in Playstation for probably about 5  years of my whole gaming life. Two between Saturn and Dreamcast and three between Dreamcast and Xbox 360.

 

I'm not intending to hate on DualShock ones or standard PlayStation pads,  but I don't know enough to know about it other than to know the newbie answer which is: 8 DualShock 2s would be enough to play any party game for the PS1 or the PS2.  and I got most of them at a thrift store for like maybe a dollar apiece before Macklemore's song, Thrift Shop, became popular.

 

So would it be handy to keep more than one DualShock 1 and standard controller for any conceivable reason that enough people subscribe to if you already have 8 working DualShock 2s?

Edited by tripletopper
Mistyping by microphone

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20 hours ago, phoenixdownita said:

Heresy .... I bought my PS1 when digital-only was all that was available and once the DualShock came about I hated it.

I want my racing games to have an on-off digital accelerator and an on-off digital steering ... I am not even kidding I got pretty good at tapping accelerator/left/right as needed to obtain the effect I need to obtain (that is play within the rule of the game to my advantage), even if the reply seen from outside the cockpit makes all those "tapping the steering" look like the front wheels are having a bout of tourette.

Once you realize in Ridge Racing Revolution that you can perform a sliding corner rotating the other way you'll never want to use any analog (yeah, if done right in RRR you can slide-steer left by initiating the slide to the left but then rotate to the right with the car doing a 270 instead of the more natural 90 expected ... some physics those game had).

 

To these days I am not a fan of analog controllers, at best they add a couple of notches between off/full-throttle (I truth I do like Mario64 tip-toeing around the sleeping plant) but they are a very pale replacement for all-in real controllers (full on steering wheels, full one flight sticks etc... etc....).

 

I even dislike the vibration feedback (aka small eccentric rotating at variable speeds) as they add weight to the controller with little to no real benefit, it's not immersive, it's just distracting ... the controller I like the most is the Jap (and US 2nd version) Saturn Pad with 6 buttons (3x2) and 2 shoulder buttons, no analogs, no "rumble", no bs, pure bliss.

 

I also played enough racing games with the tap tap searing in the tap tap break and the tap tap accelerator right where I had about 15 years of that kind of experience before being exposed to analog controls.  Settled in control is not something naturally and graded me in video gaming.  In real life driving yes, but not video game driving.  

 

One of the things I'm planning to do at sinistersticks.com is find a way to get a fightstick working with the Atari 5200.  because stock controllers are awful for most of the arcade style games.  I think there's only like 7 games that would be better with a analog controller than a digital one, kaboom  Star wars, missile command, super breakout, Pole position, and possibly two others I can't think of now.  Enough of the games other than the ones above require quick acceleration from movement to stop and vice versa, as well as movement one way to another way.  And kaboom requires quick acceleration from and  to any point along the x-axis but not necessarily both ends in the center.

 

My strategy is taking a NES or SNES era PC joypad which has a digital thumb pad, and use the analogizing technology that's currently built into yhe pad, plus a Bohoki adapter from atariage usable Bohoki. And viols, instant 5200 fight stick.

 

Andthe best part is neither me or the guy assembling it have to know anything about analogizing technologies.  If it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

And it seems like the people at shoryuken.con are so fighter-focused, they seem to forget a lot of older systems would be better with a modern  fightstick.

 

Almost literally every game is better with a fightstick pre PS1 DualShock 1 compared to the default pad.  Thank you Edladdin for making discrete to 7800 and discrete to ColecoVision PCBs. Probably the other big ones are Intellivision 5200, qnd vectrex.  The big question is, will he do digital 8 direction inputs being mapped to either 16 direction outputs for in TV or four analog outputs to 5200 and vectrex, or Will he build 16 way and analog components for physically 100% compatibility with those systems.

 

Iwould buy intellivision 8 way discrete adapters.  Reading the directions online I'm not sure if either my guy could do it correctly or if he doesn't understand, if I could explain it.  You have to buy special logic chips.  And I don't know if they require any special knowledge or equipment besides soldering and general electronics to use right.

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