Nintendo Wii - a modern system? Not sure how I feel about that . . .

[c0op3r]

So I recently (like just a couple days ago) bought a Wii console (an early one with the GameCube ports).  I have never owned one of these but they have gotten cheap enough, incredible ease to hack with no physical mods, factory SCART is available and games a literally dirt cheap to free.

 

So since I have bought one and am accumulating all the associated controllers and parts I decided I should look here on AtariAge for information about the system, I am shocked to see it listed as a 'Modern' system.

 

It was discontinued something like 7 years ago, it does not have native HDMI out, all online DL's and streaming have been shut down, so why is it considered a "modern" system?  Maybe its time to move this one to the Classic category.

 

This will be the newest system I own and I am not sure how I feel about having a system that is considered "Modern"

 

I think also as part of this discussion maybe we should figure out what qualifies any system as Modern - is that done by its generation with no regard to whether its still produced.  My understanding is that the Wii is considered a 7th Generation system so does that make it modern?  As time goes on maybe we should move to categorizing these discussion categories by generation and not Modern vs Classic.

 

Just my 1.5 cents (as its not even worth the full 2 cents) but I look forward to hearing other peoples thoughts.

[Flojomojo]

Load up New Super Mario Bros or Mario Kart (6) and the Wii feels like a sequel to the Super Nintendo, never mind the fact that two systems came between them. 
 

It's unabashedly 480p, which is impossibly low res by today's standards, but it has capable 3D and some games with real depth. To today's eyes, it looks more like the PlayStation One than a modern system ...

 

...but I think it belongs in the modern system camp, alongside PS3 and Xbox 360. But like the PS2, GameCube, and OG Xbox, it's starting to feel old. 
 

That just makes it an old modern game system though, not a "classic." Have some respect for the truly classic systems. ?

 

Getting hung up on labels and categories, let alone "generations," is a sure path to insanity. You'll be a Crazy Climber and a Roof Pooper if you aren't careful. 

[spacecadet]

This is a somewhat more specific version of the same discussion that comes up here about once a month, ie. where to draw the line between classic and modern systems. And it has come up that frequently since I joined here 15 years ago. (Edit: I originally said 20 - hey, I was only off by 25%.)

 

I point that out not because it's not a worthwhile thing to think about, or because there can't be adjustments made over time, but more to say that there have always been and are always going to be different opinions about it, and whatever category you put a certain system in, there are going to be other people who disagree. Essentially this site really can't win. Given that, I think it's better to take the conservative route, which means leaving things the way they are.

 

The thing is, this is a site that deals with systems going back to the 1970's. So the cutoff point for what's considered "modern" is always going to be way earlier than some people who got into gaming later might think. Even if you think it should be later than post-crash (which is where I still think it should be, if you're going to separate it into only two eras), there's no way I would ever agree that it should be in the Wii era. I couldn't think of any justification at all for not considering the PS3 or Xbox 360, or even the GameCube, PS2 and original Xbox, modern systems. There's nothing any different about them vs. earlier 3D, disc-based systems other than having better graphics.

 

There always needs to be some real differentiator between what's "classic" and what's "modern". It's not just about age or even specs. But even if it was, the Wii is far too new to qualify as a classic system. You can't lump it in with the Atari 2600 and Intellivision.

Edited November 13, 2019 by spacecadet

[c0op3r]

Yeah I can not wait to get it all put together, still waiting on some of the parts (controllers and SCART cable) to arrive.  I plan to do a a full hack and use it so I can play Wii and Gamecube games, I might do the SNES Emu on it also as I dont have one of those systems and really dont need or want a physical SNES.  There really only seems like a handful of games for the Wii/GC that I will play (maybe 12 between both machines) and I am sure that those are pretty much the same 12 that everyone plays and wants.  With maybe the except being Ikaruga for the GameCube.

 

I will start with straight up hack and download all the games,  We were just at Retro Game Con in Syracuse and you could get Wii & GC games for 3 to 5$ all day in the dump boxes, we are going to go to the Classic Game Fest in Tx in July at that time I will buy physical copies of the games I do like so I have complete original copies (obviously never using them as the games will already be on the machine, but as you may have figured out I am a little quarkie like that).

 

As to getting hung up on the Modern vs Classic I am not really, in my view the system is more of what maybe should be called 'Neo-Classic' as it is not a new and supported system, it is a complete generation behind (and maybe 2 if we are about to roll into 9th generation machine).  But at some point I think that 2 categories is just not going to be enough.

 

Wikipedia currently list 8 generations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_home_video_game_consoles

 

I think this might be a better way of having system seperated on a discussion forum like AtariAge.  I always also found it weird that some systems get a dedicated section and other get lumped in with the general 'classic'  Example Sega Genesis gets its own section but TG16/PCE & NeoGeo get shoved to the general population area.  I am not saying that everything should get its own, like if you have an Amstrad well I dont think there is enough there to warrant a dedicated section.

 

anyway all of this is most likely about my need to compartmentalize my whole forum reading pattern.

[c0op3r]

3 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

There always needs to be some real differentiator between what's "classic" and what's "modern". It's not just about age or even specs. But even if it was, the Wii is far too new to qualify as a classic system. You can't lump it in with the Atari 2600 and Intellivision.

I agree and maybe that is why like stated above it might be time to create categories based on system generations, instead of classic / modern.

[Flojomojo]

Maybe when the neo-classics outnumber the undisputed classics, you'll get your wish. As the last-gen system discussion slows down, maybe PS3 and PS4 and the Xboxen will be combined. There's also the will of the people to consider, in addition to "what makes logical sense." You want to organize discussion where people will find it. A while back, someone was advocating for a dedicated Adam section apart from the Coleco section. Every Adam is a Coleco but not every Coleco is an Adam, and there probably isn't enough Adam-only traffic to justify its own spot. Wii will probably end up the same way, but right now it's enough of an oddball (along with Wii U) to justify its own spot. 
 

Is a hot dog a sandwich?

? = ??

[Magmavision2000]

Didn't Just Dance 2020 just get released for it a couple of weeks ago? Personally, if the system still has new games coming out for it (officially), then it should still be considered modern. 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Magmavision2000

[Atariboy]

I think it's a stretch to say this was discontinued seven years ago when a major publisher just released a new title a few days ago. It's been on life support for quite sometime, but it's not quite gone just yet. It's in that odd place at least for me where it's still too recent to really be categorized alongside systems like the Xbox One, but not old enough to yet be viewed as a classic platform. 

 

There are still some online abilities here as well. Certain 3rd party games like several of the Call of Duty releases still have active online multiplayer with people still playing. Getting close to the end with the discontinuance of the Wii Shop (Which technically remains online I believe for now for users to redownload bought content) and the cessation of support for the selection of streaming apps that the Wii had like Netflix. 

 

 

[Austin]

Remember that this category is Wii / Wii U, not just Wii. The Wii U itself is an obviously modern platform despite it no longer being supported in any meaningful capacity. I think it was just easier on the admin at the time of the Wii U's release to tack it on to the Wii section's title, especially since it's compatible with Wii titles. I foresee the Wii section staying here for a while.

[spacecadet]

8 hours ago, c0op3r said:

I agree and maybe that is why like stated above it might be time to create categories based on system generations, instead of classic / modern.

Thing is a lot of us don't subscribe to this numbered generation thing that Wikipedia came up with either. You just can't neatly put all these systems together into arbitrary cycles like that. That's a media creation. Game consoles come out whenever manufacturers think they have something new to offer, not when some arbitrary 5 year period is up. Look at the Switch, for one example of that. Or the Dreamcast. Or like, every Atari console.

 

I realize that the public may come to believe in these things and at some point it may become like holding the tide back with a broom. But consider the audience for this site. By nature it's going to be people who have been around for a long time; probably since the "first generation" of consoles, and have experienced all this in real-time. I see that you're older than me, so probably that includes you. And that only goes to show how public perception can be altered over time; I don't deny that. People have a tendency to need to categorize things neatly; even things they've experienced themselves.

 

But every time we've talked about this in other threads, it's just a mess when you try to actually do it. It doesn't work. Wikipedia has tried and IMO they've failed, certainly worse than keeping the Wii as just a "modern" system. I mean, they've got the Atari 2600 and 5200 as part of the same generation, for one thing. They've got separate listings for the SG-1000, Mark III and SMS in the same generation, but no listing at all for the Mark II. They've got the Xavix Port(?) listed in the same generation as the Sega Dreamcast, even though they're 6 years apart and nobody's ever even heard of the Xavix Port. Etc etc.

 

These are just a few problems I have with their categorization in a quick glance of how they're breaking up generations - I'd have many more if I really looked and thought about it. And I am one person. Every single other person on this site would have a similar list of issues, although they'd be different than mine in some ways, probably similar in others. In the end, you'd have several hundred people with a dozen or more gripes per user about how things are being broken up.

 

Better to just keep it simple.

Edited November 13, 2019 by spacecadet

[wierd_w]

If you load up the Wii with the homebrew channel, it also can function as a low-end dosbox.  Dosbox for the console is surprisingly 486-like, and it also supports USB keyboards and mice. (The WiiMote will also function as a mouse if you want.)  It beats having a clunky computer at your entertainment center.  Attach a wireless USB keyboard, and it's classic game gold.  (The classic controller is supported as a joystick too.)

 

The CPU inside the Wii is not really powerful enough to emulate anything beefier than a 486DX-2 50, with OPL synth-- but that's what most old DOS systems had in the period anyway. Sadly no network function.   It can do NES, SNES, GENESIS, and pals too with the appropriate emulators. 

 

It's a very robust little system, despite its 480P max resolution. 

 

 

It's a shame that the Wii-u did not get the same level of attention for homebrew that the Wii did.  I would have loved to use an updated dosbox there. (Since I replaced my Wii with a Wii-U.) It feels kinda like being cheated to have that CPU horsepower not getting used, while struggling to have playable speeds on vintage FPS games. (Though, that DOES re-create the vintage experience.......)

[c0op3r]

20 hours ago, Atariboy said:

I think it's a stretch to say this was discontinued seven years ago when a major publisher just released a new title a few days ago.

I would like to quote " Nintendo ended the production of the Wii gaming console in October 2013 seven years after its maiden launch to give way to the Wii U. Now, it seems the company is also planning to pull the plug on all video streaming services supported on the legacy hardware. " at this link: https://www.neowin.net/news/nintendo-will-discontinue-all-video-streaming-services-on-wii-after-january-31-2019/

 

So Nintendo Discontinued it 7 years ago - the fact that a third party is making a game for it that they are also making for at least 4 other systems and releasing it for the Wii also does not mean it is not a discontinued system.  There are third party / independent publishers making games for the Atari 2600 is it not a discontinued because someone is making a game for it?

[Atariboy]

While I take no objection to declaring a platform as discontinued when new consoles are no longer manufactured or widely available, I personally don't view a platform as discontinued until its mainstream commercial life, however limited it may be, ceases.

 

And I believe I read that the officially licensed Just Dance 2020 for the Wii from one of the world's largest videogame publishers was the 2nd best selling platform at launch for that new release a few days ago, so the platform's commercial life (And licensing revenue for Nintendo) is certainly continuing at least at this point in time.

 

It will all be a moot point very soon. No other publisher is going to be jumping back into the ring in 2020. Ubisoft is just providing us with an interesting historical footnote here with their extended support for the Wii, years after gamers viewed the platform as dead and buried. 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Atariboy