Jump to content
Game the Systems

Wanted: Collectors with digitized complete collections

Recommended Posts

Hey there, I'm looking for a very specific set of collectors. If you meet these criteria please contact me at [email protected]

Please contact me if:

-You have a complete collection of games for a retro console

-You have digitized that collection (no illegal roms)

-You plan on keeping your collection indefinitely

-You want as many people to experience those games as possible

If you have any interest please contact me as soon as possible!

Colin

Edited by Game the Systems
  • Confused 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm opening a video game store that focuses on the player experience. I would like to provide as many of the classics as I can. I don't want to tread into murky waters with downloaded roms and I don't have the capacity to purchase entire collections and digitize them myself. If someone has a digitized version of a collection it can easily and legally be shared (I'm offering compensation and legal protections) and I would offer them to anybody who may be interested in playing in the store.

  • Confused 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would love to compensate them adequately! Though, if I'm being honest, I'm not 100% sure what the value of the collection would be worth!

The store is very new and I'm starting it essentially out of pocket. I am willing to host as many collections as I can provide hardware for (I'm doing Analogue consoles with Everdrive carts as well as soft-modded upscaled consoles) but am willing to entertain anybody who was willing to participate.

I know this is an odd request but I would like to pay homage to the classics as much as modern technology will allow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since there seems to be some interest in the topic but no responses I would like to be as open as possible.

Please visit my website www.gamethesystems.com

 

We also have a facebook, instagram, twitter, twitch, reddit, and YouTube

We will be opening in Philadelphia in December/January

 

Anyone who participates will be compensated for their efforts!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the conundrum here is that, in keeping with the no illegal ROMs criteria, collectors would have to sell you their physical collection.  In the US you can still make personal backups.  So, you get their collection and then you personally dump the ROMs.

 

Am I looking at this wrong?

Edited by Gemintronic
More better grammar
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only a little!

And this is a big caveat so thanks for bringing it up!!!

YOU GET TO KEEP ALL YOUR GAMES!

In fact, I will be asking you to sign an agreement that states that you will NOT get rid of your physical collection... at least not without warning.

If you have a physical copy of the game you may legally rent out that game. You may also legally make backup copies and you are able to use the digital version as a rental copy so long as you only rent as many physical copies as you have the rights to. By coordinating with collectors we can legally host as many games as can be digitally inserted (that is to say: all of them!)

That means your games stay with you!

I would never ask you to give us your games unless you're looking to sell and have a viable offer for us to look at.

Anybody with further questions can contact me at

[email protected]

Or continue the thread if you think others might share your questions too!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something like that.

Except I'm also offering a brick and mortar location with all the required hardware to play in as close to the original format as possible.

All I need is someone to certify that they legally own and to have backed up all their games for a console, then I'm going to offer that console (or a modern FPGA clone) with flash memory in an actual location for people to play.

I would like to stress that isn't middle-manning because I'm the one assuming all the risk. I'm opening a store, buying the hardware, and hosting gamers to come and enjoy the classics in the best format possible. Many of these systems and games can't be played on their traditional hardware anymore and the new technologies are generally incompatible. I firmly believe these games are worth experiencing and while I can use my own somewhat limited collection, I would like to offer essentially complete collections so if someone comes in with a game in mind I will be able to offer the best possible experience.

Edited by Game the Systems

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you don't want to use ROMs floating on the internet but you would be creating ROMs from physical games that we provide you, or if we already have ROMs from our collection that we have the physical versions of, then you would be purchasing (renting?) those...I get the concept but it seems questionable, at best, legally. Yes, it's legal to create backup copies of games we own. But I'm not aware of it being legal to sell/rent said backup copies to a third party to then profit off of. Doesn't really pass the sniff test, in my opinion. But hopefully you have consulted with an attorney who has an idea of what you would be doing. 

 

All of that said, the concept sounds cool in terms of your store, and I live in the Philly burbs, so I would love to check out your place sometime. Where will you be located?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hm. Wouldn't the backup roms now be considered rental roms or something else? The intended usage has now become something completely different.

 

As a collector I'm not entirely sure I would want to partake in this. Despite compensation I'd still feel exploited.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not a lawyer, but from the perspective of DMCA, this scheme sounds indistinguishable from what Pandora's Cube was doing. 

 

The dood with all the ROMs:

Quote

When do I get my check? Why did I ever agree to this cockamamie, unverifiable royalty scheme? 

 

Game the Systems:

Quote

But your honor ... the person on the internet told me they had a physical copy of every ROM I rented out to people in my shop!

 

The Judge:

Quote

Too bad you publicly stated that you would assume all the risk for your actions. Bailiff?

 

We live in an age of digital plenty. Nobody wants or needs any more middlemen. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to agree with others here, your digital game store rental appears to be illegal. You are copying the games to another permanent medium, an Everdrive cart. You have no means to determine if the roms you are receiving are not currently in use by the original owner. I hoe you have a good lawyer. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/08/can-a-digital-lending-library-solve-classic-gamings-piracy-problem/%3famp=1

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't there loads of legal mumbo jumbo about renting, copying and distributing games and even resale* on most CIB games? There's a reason for this, for one, those of us who copied cassette tapes in video game pirate heaven.

 

In the UK there might be some leeway with this when it came to abandonware games, but given companies like Atari and Nintendo seem to exclusively hunt people whether they are money grabbing or innocent fans, it doesn't seem good business sense. I think Virtual Console / Console download platforms has made this particularly murky, its not a given anymore that content from 20-30 years ago won't be re released. Not only that, but there has been very well made redistribution of games such as Mega man collection which is pretty close if not perfect to the original feel of the game.

 

* Obviously some of this tends to be hyperbole, as most countries guarantee your legal right to resell your own property. Some are catching up to software resales for download sites too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm really glad you posted that article! It was a big part of my inspiration!

 

As to the legal dubiousness of relying on people from the internet, I'm sure you guys can give me enough credit that if I'm going to do this I'm going to have the wherewithal to perform a legitimate check before making anything legally binding! I can afford a lawyer, but not enough to fight Nintendo!

 

And to be clear, anyone who participated would agree to certain restrictions, such as when you can play, or what you can do with your collection (selling it or relocating it without prior contact). These would be made explicit before anything would be transferred.

 

And just in case anyone needs peace of mind: if you participated and wanted to eventually sell your collection you would be entitled to do so! Part of the agreement would insist, however, that if the collection were going to be sold it would be offered to us first for a similar price.

 

I want to be straightforward and clear about what is expected and possible. I thoroughly appreciate everybody putting their opinion in and am happy to hear what you guys think!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A Mike Kennedy comparison seems like a kiss of death.

 

I'm not sure I would want to get in my car and drive to a place to play games that were designed for the home market. Recreating the experience on original hardware isn't enough. Everything about the home environment needs to be considered too. All that simply means is I'mma wanna play videogames at comfy home. But that is just me.

 

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, how would you stop the collector from playing his games at the same time your customers are?

 

 

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suppose that's a problem with any legal paperwork. Just like I can sign a lease that says I won't do certain things in my house, the collector would agree to certain restrictions. If we found out the person was breaking those restrictions we would be forced to terminate our relationship.

 

We can't really prevent someone from breaking from the agreement, but the agreement will express what the requirements are and what the course of action will be if the collector goes rogue. Just like if I decide to break my lease and throw a huge rave in our location, the ramifications will be built into the agreement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I take what anyone who talks about a "digitized" version of a game with a huge grain of salt. Ummm...with the exception of the analog FMV of Laserdisc games, ALL videogames are digital. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since there seems to be some serious confusion and a whole bunch of people jumping to (incorrect) conclusions I feel the need to spell this all out quite plainly.

17 USC 109(a) permits the owner of a copy of a copyrighted work to use or dispose of that copy as they like, including renting it. Subsection (b)(1)(A) makes an exception for computer software and sound recordings, but subsection (b)(1)(B)(ii) points out that (b)(1)(A) is not applicable to software used for a limited purpose computer designed for playing video games.

This means if you own the game (the physical copy) you are allowed to use it as you please.

So if you own the copy you may rent it out. You would be renting the game out to my company.

My company will then put the digital version on a flash card in an Everdrive cart in a console or clone console that will be LOCKED IN THE STORE AND WILL NOT LEAVE!

Nobody, regardless of their relationship to the store, will have the ability to take or manipulate those files. They will stay in one place and will be inaccessible to everyone else. They will not be copied, moved, rented out, or licensed to any other individual or company.


The collector will be required to have their collection verified by us. We will visit your collection and look through it to make sure it is represented accurately! After we confirm that your collection is legitimate you will be asked to sign papers that will require certain things, including:

You guarantee that the collection is your own as are all the rom files
You will not play those games during the store's normal business hours unless you contact the store to ensure nobody else is using that ROM (to be fair, it's so unlikely and our stream will have that info available eventually so you wouldn't even have to contact us)

You will not move your collection without informing us
You will not sell your collection without offering it to us for a comparable price

If the collector breaks any of these requirements the contract will immediately dissolve. We will remove your ROMs from the store's systems and seek a replacement elsewhere.



So for all of us that believe this is exploitative middle-manning let me just reiterate certain points

You will keep all your games
You can terminate the agreement whenever you want (the contract will only hold if you're trying to sell the collection, for any other reason it will dissolve immediately after contacting us)

You will be compensated

It is legal to rent your games to us, we will NOT be renting the games to others, they will be in our store playing the copy. They will not be allowed to leave the store with, or even touch, the cart/console.


And lastly, if anybody still has opinions about the legality of all this, please feel free to respond with the appropriate information! I have done the research and contacted legal channels to do this! I can guarantee that if anything goes wrong it will not be the collector responsible for the infractions!

Thanks again, guys. I know this is somewhat trying and there have been plenty of episodes of people taking advantage of the scene, but I can assure that's not the case here.

Please feel free to check out our website and fb page for more info or to get an idea what this all is.

 

www.gamethesystems.com

[email protected]

https://www.facebook.com/GametheSystems/

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dumped, cloned, copied, but NOT digitized. Being anal, yes. But a major pet peeve. As someone who's seeking to break new ground, you should be mindful not to use incorrect terms.

 

Also, what if someone has a collection of prototypes that are not for public release? 

 

Edit: I see you state no illegal ROMs, so taking that to include prototypes, which aren't illegal, but may fall into a gray area.

Edited by lingyi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Duly noted. I know there are plenty of terms but to clarify:

 

You own the original copy

You have dumped the game yourself

You have a backup copy of the ROM

 

We will use that backup copy.

You will essentially rent that copy to us.

We will put it in a console that is locked up and can be played only in the store.

 

I honestly don't mind explaining this as much as i can if it will help dispel any sense of exploitation or impropriety. I'm trying to do this legally and appropriately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...