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Wanted: Collectors with digitized complete collections


Game the Systems

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Does the 1st renter (you) have free and clear authority to re-rent it out to your in-store patrons? If not I suppose you could say your patrons are coming to see the potted plant in the corner and there just happens to be videogames here!

 

I'm also curious how this would be carried out operationally. Like the flashcarts having special software that talks to a network? Or maybe as simple as a patron coming in, plopping their ass down, and having full run of the entire contents of a system for a fixed fee of like $2.99 per hour.

 

And would there need to be any documentation of what games are played at what time/date?

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For right now we're planning on doing everything the old fashioned way. You can visit the site to learn more but it's going to be a system attached to a TV with a controller coming out of a big metal and polycarbonate box.

 

Anybody who wanted to play on any in store system would be paying a rate to do so, regardless of what they pick.

Edited by Game the Systems
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So many questions. Not trying to be overly negative, I appreciate that you're trying to do things legitimately, but you've opened yourself up to scrutiny. Better by those of us here than someone from Atari or Nintendo!

 

You say you'll verify the collection by visiting. How far are you willing to travel to verify the collection? If I have a completed boxed collection of VCS games, will you open each box to verify the cart is in there? Will you play each cart to verify that the correct ROM is in there? What if there are reproductions, which are at best in a gray area, but more often illegal. Do you know how to identify a repro cart from the label or the ROM?

 

How are you going to verify that only one person is playing a particular game? Are you going to have one console (e.g. VCS) with all the games or split the games amongst multiple consoles, limiting the game selection? 

 

How knowledgeable about retro games are you and your staff? If a customer complains that the NES version of Battletoads is glitched because they can't get past certain stages, are you able to explain that it's possible to pass, just very, very difficult? What if the customer asks about the difference between a NES, Sega and Genesis port of a game? Are you able to answer or just tell the customer to use their time to try the different versions?

 

If Atari or Nintendo comes knocking on the door and asks for verification of ownership of the original carts, they're probably not going to accept an agreement with the owner as proof. Are you willing and able to force the owner to prove ownership?

 

If you're forced to cease and desist, do you have a legal strategy and funds to counter monetary claims? It's easy to say, "Okay, we'll stop. We only made X dollars from it anyway!". Do you have a way of proving that only X dollars were directly or indirectly earned from the retro game play and advertising? [Edit: Well, 40% of the customers played VCS, 30% played NES and 30% played Genesis. So Atari we only owe you 40% of your claim. How do we know since we just have a "...system attached to a TV with a controller coming out of a big metal and polycarbonate box." Ummmm... "How many customers were drawn in by the advertising having VCS games vs those those actually played VCS games?" Ummmm..."]

 

Just the tip of the iceberg, but I'll leave it at this for now.  

Edited by lingyi
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First of all, thanks for everybody who's been in this discussion and putting their 2 cents in. I am personally a low-level collector but I've been a video game person my whole life. One of my first memories was when I was 2 my brother beat the first dungeon of the OG LoZ. That memory kinda stuck.

I am more than happy to bear your scrutiny! I agree completely!

 

Depending on the size of the collection and the compensation they're willing to accept I would be willing to travel reasonably far. I live in Philly so anything in the Northeast would be preferable.

I have been watching every gaming YouTube channel I can get into. I've watched pretty much everything Cinemassacre, GameSack, The Immortal John Hancock, Pat and Ian, Metal Jesus + crew (I really enjoy Kelsey's videos about recognizing legit boards and what things are ok to ask people that are trading in carts), MVG, SpawnWave, etc. 

I own the NES Battletoads and I know it's possible with the warp. But I also own the NES Marble Madness and I can tell you that if you play 2P and get to the last level with more than 30 seconds left the game will freeze.

I know that there are many different generations and localizations of consoles and I know that the vast majority of disc based retro media is crumbling to death, if the consoles work at all anymore.

 

The store I'm opening is SMALL! 1200 sq/ft! We will be able to fit no more than 9 entertainment centers in the whole place and our main focus is newer games! Nobody will be playing anything without us personally setting it up for them. However, I also happen to be a huge retro game fan and I think there is a grand history of gaming that feeds us the Golden Age of Gaming we're in now.

When it comes to the legal strategies the only thing I can offer anyone is that they will not have to bear the brunt of any legal proceedings. While I'm certain I stand on reasonably solid legal footing I would be remissed to get anybody else involved, regardless. If it is a tipping point for anybody that can/will be included in any agreement.
 

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IMHO, the RIGHT way to do this would be to buy a bunch of common games for $.50 or a $1 and download the ROMs. Buy a few popular rarer carts for sizzle. Start a Wish List for customers to gather info on what they want next.  This is how they did it Mom and Pop video rental stores. 


You don't need or necessarily want ALL the games, especially as some really rare and expensive games are really bad and might actually turn off customers to the system or concept. "Oh look, they have Air Raid! I've never played a VCS game before. This is going to be great! *Plays game* Oh, that's it?"

 

There's also the Paradox of Choice, too many choices can actually make customers less happy. In 120 minutes I can quickplay 50-60 VCS games without any appreciation or understanding of them. Or I can spend 120 minutes playing Laserblast! or Enduro and look forward to my next session. 

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All fair points, and if you'll allow me to say so, I've thought of most of them already.

Paradox of choice is going to be counteracted by having lists like TOP10, Hidden Gems, Prequels to popular new games, and high score contests.

 

I've played every copy of Marble Madness I could get my hands on from arcade to nes to ZX spectrums to FMTowns. My favorite was the port for the VIC20. It's one level, totally broken, and freezes upon completion. Most of them were totally not worth playing, but I was happy for the opportunity.

And I'm imagining of someone comes in to play Atari they have an idea what they're trying to play. Kids these days don't really care that much for the older gems.

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Since you say you have a collection, start with what you have and expand with demand. You probably already saw this, but GameStop was/is planning to remodel their stores with exactly what you're planning to do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoSXxGiNosk Pay particular attention to Ian's comments about the gaming being a loss leader and the only way to make money is for the customers to buy something, including snacks. 

 

Watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAUp-BR6nsY and read this article https://www.polygon.com/2017/7/17/15974096/what-it-costs-to-run-an-independent-video-game-store about why now and the foreseeable is the absolute worst time to open a video game store. If GameStop and Ian's store can't afford to pay 50% of retail vaiue for trade-in games, how do you expect to profit at that level? 

 

Looking at your website and reading what you've posted, do you understand marketing and retail? Your website is terrible! There's a row of pic placeholders with "We don't any products to show right now", and there's a section filled with irrelevant images and the link to the video leads to a paid advertisement for the service. Are you related to Fred Chenais and using TinGiant for your web design? Oh, it's not ready for primetime? Then don't make it live for people to stumble upon. First impressions count!

 

For retail, your planned store hours are terrible! Opening at 2:30pm weekdays and 12PM weekends? Hmmm...I have a day off and I want to want until 2:30pm to buy my new game and start playing! Also, 1200sf is a decent size for a store, half the size of the average for a small 7-11 store. And it guaranteed that every square inch of the floor is laid out for maximum profit. You figure you can have nine consoles set up. Estimating a 3'x6' area for the setup (TV, console, chair) and you're looking at 18sf x 9 = 162sf (actually more when you factor in cubic space includes the wall) of valuable sales space, ~13.5% of your store footage!

 

Overall, this sounds like "I wanna" and not well thought out at all!

 

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52 minutes ago, Game the Systems said:

All fair points, and if you'll allow me to say so, I've thought of most of them already.

Paradox of choice is going to be counteracted by having lists like TOP10, Hidden Gems, Prequels to popular new games, and high score contests.

 

I've played every copy of Marble Madness I could get my hands on from arcade to nes to ZX spectrums to FMTowns. My favorite was the port for the VIC20. It's one level, totally broken, and freezes upon completion. Most of them were totally not worth playing, but I was happy for the opportunity.

And I'm imagining of someone comes in to play Atari they have an idea what they're trying to play. Kids these days don't really care that much for the older gems.

I don't mean to keep beating on you, but while it's good that you've thought of the points, maybe even those in my last post, but have you done more than thought about them? Do you have marketing and/or retail knowledge, your own or someone else's to confirm/refute/reorganize your thoughts? GameStop has entire thinktanks trying to figure out how to save their stores, how are your 'thoughts' different and better than those who studied and learned through years of experience and knowledge?

 

Your ideas about retro gaming, either with your ROMs or 'rentals' is what is of particular concern. You seem to have some of the legal particulars covered, but do you have reviewed business plan for it? If I were a lender or investor and you told me that you planned to use 13.5% of store space for something with no proven record or plan for financial return, I'd walk away. 

 

*SIGH* I'm getting myself worked up over something I have no vested interest in. I wish you the best of luck and success!

Edited by lingyi
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So once again, I would ask to enjoy some benefit of the doubt. You seem to be very well informed (I've already read all those articles) but you're a bit old school. Nowadays people use gaming as a social outlet as well and a not insignificant portion of our revenue will be snacks, drinks, memorabilia, as well as playtime and game sales.

I expect to make almost no money on game sales!! I'm purposefully trying to cater a marketplace full of games at great prices. I walk into GameStop every time and walk right back out when I realize they have nothing I want at even close to a good price! My store is going to sell things for less than you can find them online, and we'll be able to do this by offering the ability to trade in games for playtime instead of money. That means when you walk into my store and you find a game you wanted you will find the best price you can find! (Unless you find some rando person to sell it second hand from their personal collection)

 

And those hours are terrible on purpose. I still have a job. This isn't going to be a sit back and watch the money roll in scheme, this is a place where I can invest into gaming and create something greater. I will host tournaments and release parties. There will be birthday parties and all sorts of other events.

And lastly, I'm modeling some of my business on stores already in existence. There are 2 different stores within a 3 hour drive of me that are doing something very similar.

Yes, my site is bad, because it's a work in progress and it's not the main focus. I'm working on the actual store! I understand about first impressions but it would be super silly to get a professional website before making sure I can fill the store adequately.

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Fortunately I haven't asked anybody to invest with me. I'm using my own money to do this.

 

And if this all falls through I've lost approximately nothing: I still plan on having the systems set up with cartridges available as a fallback. This is an idea I've been percolating for years now as an effort to introduce more people to older games. If I only had new games the business would still work.

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I'd talk to a lawyer before plunking money down to try to rent someone's dump of their games.  Right now it sounds like you're going by what you think is allowed and what we are pretty sure wont work.

 

Alternatively, you could avoid the issue altogether by getting permission from homebrew authors to stream their games.  You can test the waters with offering retro titles without incurring the wrath of Nuntendo, Atari, etc..

 

I'm sure many game makers would be happy to see their game shared for a little slice of the ad revenue or subscription fee.

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On 11/21/2019 at 3:47 PM, Game the Systems said:

Fortunately I haven't asked anybody to invest with me. I'm using my own money to do this.

 

And if this all falls through I've lost approximately nothing: I still plan on having the systems set up with cartridges available as a fallback. This is an idea I've been percolating for years now as an effort to introduce more people to older games. If I only had new games the business would still work.

 

Don't waste your money. This will 100 percent fail and worse, possibly blow up in your face. You have an idea sure but you're clearly VERY naive to business practice and the legalities of what you are looking to get yourself into as well. Stopping dead in your tracks and abandoning this whole thing is about the best option.

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