New to 7800: Repair help

[+intvsteve]

Straying off into unfamiliar territory here.... Some years ago (15 or so?), I got a mostly working 7800 but never gave it much attention. Been going on a "let's get some stuff working!" kick lately, so here I am!

 

Briefly:

• Already replaced power switch (don't even remember when lol) - I still have the note from seller showing where to short pins to power it up
• Select and Reset switches seem shot - they don't close when pressed; simply age, or some other problem?
• One controller joystick permanently stuck in 'up' position

 

Not being familiar with how these controllers work, I looked a bit at the pinouts and did some basic "do the switches work" testing.

 

Is it correct that the switches are held in place essentially by the clear tape on these controllers?

 

I'm looking at these parts at Console5:

https://console5.com/store/gold-plated-self-adhesive-joystick-dome-switches-10mm-quad-4-leg.html

https://console5.com/store/tactile-switch-12mm-x-4-5mm-atari-7800-power-pause-select-reset.html

 

Follow-up questions:

• Are the stock controllers worth fixing?
• Are those self-adhesive dome switches the right way to go?
• If you use the self-adhesive dome switches, do you just toss the existing tape?
• If you need the tape, what do you use?
• Any other things to watch for?

 

FWIW, the foam circles in the controllers still seem "springy" enough.

 

Thanks for advice / tips!

[+save2600]

You're not really going to want to use the CX24 stock controllers as they're not the most comfortable (understatement), but they're worth fixing to include with the system if you decide to sell it later. 

 

The Select and Reset switches take a lot of abuse and they do wear out, so yeah - I'd replace for sure. You can spray them with contact cleaner in the hopes of freeing them up (which you may), but doesn't take a lot of effort to simply replace with new. 

 

Yes, the clear packing type tape are what was used to hold the original dome contacts into place. 

 

And yes, replace the dome contacts with the self adhesive kind - which will make placing clear packing tape over the PCB optional or redundant. 

 

Re: the only other thing to look for, are the fire button dome contacts. If they're kind of mushy (typical), I'd replace them too. Hell, even if they aren't mushy, I'd still replace if I were you - especially since you'll already be in there replacing the others. 

[+intvsteve]

5 minutes ago, save2600 said:

You're not really going to want to use the CX24 stock controllers as they're not the most comfortable (understatement), but they're worth fixing to include with the system if you decide to sell it later. 

 

The Select and Reset switches take a lot of abuse and they do wear out, so yeah - I'd replace for sure. You can spray them with contact cleaner in the hopes of freeing them up (which you may), but doesn't take a lot of effort to simply replace with new. 

 

Yes, the clear packing type tape are what was used to hold the original dome contacts into place. 

 

And yes, replace the dome contacts with the self adhesive kind - which will make placing clear packing tape over the PCB optional or redundant. 

 

Re: the only other thing to look for, are the fire button dome contacts. If they're kind of mushy (typical), I'd replace them too. Hell, even if they aren't mushy, I'd still replace if I were you - especially since you'll already be in there replacing the others. 

Thanks!

 

About the contacts - figured in for a penny, in for a pound on these. They all seem mushy. I guess I may as well do both controllers, even though one "works".

 

Totally agree about the lack of responsiveness and comfort on these controllers. It looks like at some point in the past they were in a room where paint was being sprayed - there's a dusting of whitish paint speckles on the cords and part of the controls. That's gonna be fun to try to remove after who-knows-how-long.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

As you know Console5 has the dome replacement switches and I've used them to great success several times. I even used one of the 4 post version ones to fix a cracked dome switch on an Intellivision once but soldering each corner down to the PCB of the Intelly. 

 

Console5 also sells OEM replacement front panel switches and I usually recommend changing those out if even one or two are flakey. I use a higher quality switch in most of my work for those who want it but also have a small pile of these OEMs from console5 as well.

 

[+save2600]

Dried paint splatters like that come off fairly easily on these plastics. Can usually just use your fingernail... Goo Gone or nail polish remover if they're really stubborn.

[CommodoreDecker]

Reset/select/power button switches - are they easily found?  The soldered circuit tracers look easy enough to remove, and given how compact those switches are I'm not sure it's worth the time to try to disassemble and clean - or how long such a cleaning would last.

[CZroe]

Man, that controller can be really annoying to get back together right but I recall fixing mine without buying any replacement parts. I think I used 99.9% electronics cleaning grade isopropyl and taped them back down.

 

Make sure you are working somewhere that you can't easily lose the springs. Maybe a tub with the drain blocked.

 

Dried paint splatters like that come off fairly easily on these plastics. Can usually just use your fingernail... Goo Gone or nail polish remover if they're really stubborn.

 

Careful. Acetone ("nail polish remover") will melt ABS plastic. The 7800 shell is likely ABS. Pretty much everything else is.

 

 

Reset/select/power button switches - are they easily found?  The soldered circuit tracers look easy enough to remove, and given how compact those switches are I'm not sure it's worth the time to try to disassemble and clean - or how long such a cleaning would last.

I got those from Console5 and they worked great on one of my 7800 systems with a bad power switch.

 

 

 

[+slx]

On 11/16/2019 at 7:28 PM, CommodoreDecker said:

Reset/select/power button switches - are they easily found?  The soldered circuit tracers look easy enough to remove, and given how compact those switches are I'm not sure it's worth the time to try to disassemble and clean - or how long such a cleaning would last.

AFAIK Best Electronics has the switches and sells replacement boards for the sticks as well.

[+DrVenkman]

Pretty sure those switches (aside from the power switch maybe) are just momentary contact switches. It’s been awhile since I’ve had one of my machines apart but from memory they look very much like commodity contact switches still in regular use today in dozens of combos of button height, actuation distance, color, etc. I’ll look into this later tonight. 

[CZroe]

Pretty sure those switches (aside from the power switch maybe) are just momentary contact switches. It’s been awhile since I’ve had one of my machines apart but from memory they look very much like commodity contact switches still in regular use today in dozens of combos of button height, actuation distance, color, etc. I’ll look into this later tonight. 

They are. Heck, I got my faulty-switch 7800 turned on by shorting the contacts with a touch of a screwdriver.

[+DrVenkman]

28 minutes ago, CZroe said:

31 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

Pretty sure those switches (aside from the power switch maybe) are just momentary contact switches. It’s been awhile since I’ve had one of my machines apart but from memory they look very much like commodity contact switches still in regular use today in dozens of combos of button height, actuation distance, color, etc. I’ll look into this later tonight. 

They are. Heck, I got my faulty-switch 7800 turned on by shorting the contacts with a touch of a screwdriver.

Yeah I dug out pics on my phone of one of my 7800’s and the switches look very much like the ones I buy by the hundred for building 5200 controllers. Digi-Key, Mouser, etc all have the same kinds. Just gotta get the button height spec details and that’s it. And there’s probably enough “slop” in the case buttons to cover most of any variation there might be. 

[CZroe]

Yeah I dug out pics on my phone of one of my 7800’s and the switches look very much like the ones I buy by the hundred for building 5200 controllers. Digi-Key, Mouser, etc all have the same kinds. Just gotta get the button height spec details and that’s it. And there’s probably enough “slop” in the case buttons to cover most of any variation there might be. 

The footprint is about 4x as large. Console5 carries direct replacements that say 12mm:
https://console5.com/store/tactile-switch-12mm-x-4-5mm-atari-7800-power-pause-select-reset.html

I ordered a bunch in 2016 and swapped them out on a few 7800 consoles in the years since.

[+DrVenkman]

Yeah same switch just bigger. Digi-Key has over 7,000 of them in stock for about 26 cents each. 

[+intvsteve]

19 hours ago, CZroe said:

They are. Heck, I got my faulty-switch 7800 turned on by shorting the contacts with a touch of a screwdriver.

Hehe... Until I replaced the power switch, that's how I powered this one up. Turns out two more switches are fried. I have one left over from a purchase from Best-Electronics made back in … 2003! Yikes! Gotta work through projects in a more timely fashion!

[+intvsteve]

23 hours ago, slx said:

AFAIK Best Electronics has the switches and sells replacement boards for the sticks as well.

I decided to just go with replacing the switches instead.  Looking closely, it looks like these:

 

https://console5.com/store/self-adhesive-dome-switches-10mm-triangular-3-leg.html

 

The ones on the controllers are triangular, so I stuck with the shape.  It sounds like fully disassembling to disconnect the board can be a pain. Hope these work out.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

You should be able to use either the 3 or 4 legged versions. I know I've used them interchangeably before.

[+intvsteve]

Console5 shipment arrived today!

 

Installed the two switches (still had one from Best-Electronics from waaaay back) and replaced all the dome switches in one controller. Five of the six existing ones had cracks in them!

 

Thanks for the advice and tips, guys!

[+intvsteve]

OK - controllers are done!

 

Now, an observation... One controller - perfect after repairs, I can't complain at all. (OK, what I mean is that it operates reliably and responsively as you'd expect for what it is.)

 

The other with all new switches, is misbehaving. I haven't figured it out fully, but it's definitely a mechanical issue of some sort. The shell of the controller doesn't gently close all the way. If I fully tighten the screws, the left fire button is permanently pressed. If I loosen the top screw by just a little, it's perfect.

 

My theory is that somehow the little circuit board that the dome switch is mounted on for the left fire button is splayed outward for some reason, rather than lining up in the slot like it should. It's also possible that I've re-routed the wires in the controller somehow and that contributes to the problem. If the top screw is loosened just that tiny bit, the controller works great.  Woohoo! Should I just leave well enough alone?  I've had two heart attacks and blacked out once trying to find that spring on a very dark hardwood floor in poor lighting.

 

Son the Youngest, who's a fan of all Donkey Kongs (even the Coleco version for Intellivision!) eagerly fired up the 7800 version of DK.  Now, I'm not familiar with this version (I've had some of the parts to fix this system since 2003 -- and just got around to it! From before he and his older brother were even born!).  It makes me wonder if the sound works correctly on this system.

 

Should I try to rearrange the innards of that controller until it's all good? Or just leave well enough alone? These are pretty well-worn, TBH.

 

I'd mentioned that these controllers must have been in a paint shop or something.... Here are some before / after pictures.  Thankfully, I've got a full week off from work now to let the skin re-grow on my hands.

 

Before:

Observe the glorious dusting of paint speckles - nicely disbursed into the grooves and all along the cord.

 

After:

Third "restoration" finished in the past week! (An Astrocade, an Intellivision (that was from 2001!) and this 7800! Woohoo!

[AtariBrian]

You probably have the wires out of place. Take it apart and rearrange it!! ? ?

[+intvsteve]

11 hours ago, AtariBrian said:

You probably have the wires out of place. Take it apart and rearrange it!! ? ?

You're trying to kill me, aren't you?

 

Come to think of it, one thing I noticed when working on one of the controllers was that it appeared that the place the screw goes into had split and been glued back together. It is wider at one end (where it was split)… I wonder if that's the "bad" controller, and that tightening the screw is forcing the plastic apart and pressing the fire button switch from the back....