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jwild

Help copying file from TIPI to PEB DSK1

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Hi guys,

 

I’m trying to learn a little fbForth and am getting stuck trying to copy the FBLOCKS file from my TIPI to DSK1 on my PEB.

 

I have downloaded the fbForth files to my PC. I can run the newly downloaded files in Classic99 and start up the fbForth environment.

 

Now I want to do it on real iron.

 

I have copied the FBLOCKS and FBFONT files to my TIPI PEB. Using DM2K, I can copy the FBFONT file to DSK1 (3.5” floppy) on my PEB.

 

I get an “Error 6: opensrc [device error]” when i try to copy the much larger FBLOCKS file.

 

The file should fit the disk since i have over 700 blocks free and the file is 642 blocks or so.

 

I have tried 2 different floppies. I have restarted my TIPI. I have tried using device TIPI and DSK4. I have tried copying the file from different subdirectories inside TIPI or at the root.

 

I’m stuck. Any ideas? Here is a picture of the message:

 

6ddad5d9775a5247bd0362403bd56fa0.jpg

 

 

 

 

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If you are using my FBLOCKS file, it should only be 320 blocks (321, including the FDR). Perhaps it has been corrupted. I am assembling the new downloads today or tomorrow for fbForth 2.0:12 and will check for any problems. 

 

...lee

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Thank you Arcadeshopper. Force CMD is cool! Thanks Jedi Matt for that.

I will be using that a lot. Tipibeep made me smile.

I was able to copy the fonts file with it, same as before. The FBLOCKS file still isn’t working. Here is the error message:

0602cd8153e4b0402cbad1602a24fd47.jpg

I will try to find another, perhaps older, copy of those two files and try again.





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I figured it out. It turns out that the files i was working with were not TIFILES format. I was using the SMB shares and Windows Explorer to move files around - simple enough.

What I should have done was taken a look at the files on the web interface. That’s how i discovered that FBLOCKS wasn’t TIFILES format.

All I had to do was check the box to the left of the file, and then go to the drop down menu and convert it.

19e1921758f49ec22021c1a49ddef42f.jpg

Then I copied to DSK1 using force cmd and it worked (slowly since it was a big file). It also reported only being 320 blocks in size.

4da235615b22938e07d6080cc12f5215.jpg

FbForth fires up now!

00831781b33adcff5f1d567d285bef64.jpg

And i can get going on these books and a little source code reverse engineering. I’m looking forward to this, Lee.

8f86ac18e519acad8565f29678b9aebe.jpg


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6c9817cd9f64a112049b030a591d8ca1.jpg

Oops. The first picture in the post above should have been this one.

This is the web interface showing how to convert to TIFILES format.

The other picture was a side-by-side picture of a Commodore 64 forth (HES Forth) next to fbForth from a few days ago.


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5b01d7353e424b214e7b1652233f0ad5.jpg

fbForth version 12 running great on real iron. I decided to map tipi as DSK1. Much faster and bigger.

Today I learned some looping and how to use the editor.

Thanks everyone for your help.


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Posted (edited)
On 11/17/2019 at 7:21 AM, jedimatt42 said:

You can also map a directory on TIPI to be DSK1. and then start the forth cartridge, and it'll find them and work off TIPI directly. No actual need to copy to a floppy.  

 

[email protected]

 

@jwild I am interested in the Forth program, but

 

@jedimatt42 and others is there an existing disk manager or other program I can use to copy from the TIPI (PEB version) to a normal disk drive on the TI?

 

(I have 2x 5.25 disk drives, 1x 3.5 disk drive as DSK1. DSK2. DSK3 and a DSK6 (CorComp RAM 512)

After the TIPI upgrade I have also a DSK4. which I can map to a directory on the TIPI, but somehow I am stuck how to save

the files to a floppy drive (preferable with a simple disk manager, like disk utilities)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by globeron
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13 minutes ago, globeron said:
 
[mention=47568]jwild[/mention] I am interested in the Forth program, but
 
[mention=42954]jedimatt42[/mention] and others is there an existing disk manager or other program I can use to copy from the TIPI (PEB version) to a normal disk drive on the TI?
 
(I have 2x 5.25 disk drives, 1x 3.5 disk drive as DSK1. DSK2. DSK3 and a DSK6 (CorComp RAM 512)
After the TIPI upgrade I have also a DSK4. which I can map to a directory on the TIPI, but somehow I am stuck how to save
the files to a floppy drive (preferable with a simple disk manager, like disk utilities)
 
 
 
 
 
 

If your TIPI CRU is higher than 1100 DSK1 shouldn't be affected as your disk controller will take priority

If it is 1100 or lower it's going to default to saving on TIPI if you have DSK1 mapped to something. I've seen a few programs get confused either way though due to improper DSR access. (assuming theres nothing but a disk controller) 

You can easily copy from TIPI to DSK1 with force command it is the only disk manager that can use multiple devices a different CRU addresses all the other disk managers are not aware of TIPI.

 

DM 2k will copy to TIPI if it's on a disk mapping.  I map DSK4 to . Which gives me the root of the TIPI drive on DSK4. 

 


 

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12 minutes ago, arcadeshopper said:

If your TIPI CRU is higher than 1100 DSK1 shouldn't be affected as your disk controller will take priority

If it is 1100 or lower it's going to default to saving on TIPI if you have DSK1 mapped to something. I've seen a few programs get confused either way though due to improper DSR access. (assuming theres nothing but a disk controller) 

You can easily copy from TIPI to DSK1 with force command it is the only disk manager that can use multiple devices a different CRU addresses all the other disk managers are not aware of TIPI.

 

DM 2k will copy to TIPI if it's on a disk mapping.  I map DSK4 to . Which gives me the root of the TIPI drive on DSK4. 

 


 

 

Okay, will try to change the CRU setting on the TIPI to something else.it is now 1000. Maybe it need to be 1200.

 

Dm2k is working to copy on tipi itself.

 

I have force ftp running, but looks i need force cmd. 

 

 

 

 

20200506_012708.jpg

20200506_012721.jpg

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I would recommend against messing with the TIPI CRUBASE 

 

Just get ForceCommand onto your FinalGrom99 ?  or an eprom cartridge, and you should be able to do what you need... you have the download link to the atariage thread above, but here is the documentation:

 

https://github.com/jedimatt42/fcmd/wiki

 

There is a simple reason why DM2K and other 'simple' disk managers don't work with TIPI... TIPI didn't exist when they were written... In all of the history of the 4A, each controller has special quirks, and the convention is not a discoverable model. So the software doing disk management has to have knowledge that 'TIPI.' should use specific subroutine names... Your ramdisk has 2 sets of subroutine names cause it uses one set for the DSK like devices, and another set for the extensions... DM2K seems to cache the CRUBASE or make assumptions about it for DSK devices... Nothing can be done about that, except rewrite DM2K... I wrote ForceCommand instead...

 

ForceCommand has not been tested with a ramdisk that looks like yours... 

 

[email protected]

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BTW: how many other floppy like controllers have lowercase DSR names? Isn't that confusing when the entire file system is otherwise case-sensitive? 

 

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4 hours ago, jedimatt42 said:

BTW: how many other floppy like controllers have lowercase DSR names? Isn't that confusing when the entire file system is otherwise case-sensitive? 

 

The disk controller is the Corcomp DS/DD, with the MG Eproms, need to double check, because the Corcomp ram 512 overwrites the titlescreen.

 

By changing the CRU to <1800   Fred Kaal's DU2K can now read the normal DSK1 to 3, but not DSK6 or DSKR.

It can also read DSK0.  And then browse in directories, like DSK0.DISK.FORCEFTP. and list the files.  However copying from DSK0 gives now errors.  (Thus having TIPI on <1000 is better as we can copy multiple files between directories)

 

How does the CRU sequence work? Are DSKs assigned how they appear starting from the lowest number?

First 1100, occupies already DSK1. to DSK4.

 

Then 1400  DSK1. to DSK6. And DSKR  (no clue why the ramdisk needs 1 to 5)

 

TIPI on 1800 but cannot access DSK1 to 4. Only DSK0 can be reached

I will try <1200 to see if that works for DSK0.

 

And explore scripting with the Force cmd tool

 

Let me know if you want me to help testing with the ramdisks

 

20200506_142929.jpg

20200506_142924.jpg

20200506_142754.jpg

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I am managed what i wanted to achieve. Send the Myarc start up disk files from a PC over Wi-Fi to the TIPI (in PEB) and save them on a disk 720kb.

 

I used TIImage tool to create a myarc startup disk, but also used my own because if the GPL,GPM, etc files needed and a changed autoexec including TIMODE and RAMDISK 360 commands (see also this video why this is needed)

.

Then TIimage tool can export the files to a normal pc directory but i used TIDIR to do this

The Myarc disk has files like SYSTEM/SYS, LOAD/SYS, DISK/SYS   i renamed these in TIDIR to SYSTEM1SYS, because of the / you will get strange charcters when uploading to the TIPI (and on TIPI you camnot rename files in the http page?)

 

Then with Finalgrom FG99 using the FTPCMD created the myarc disk copying files 1 by 1

 

(MY TIPI is at CRU <1800 and files in DSK4)

 

CD 1800.DSK4

COPY SYSTEM1SYS  1100.DSK1

 

Takes a long time 512 blocks ( I feel it can be much more faster, but it works!)

And same for all other files, LOAD1SYS, DISK1SYS, AUTOEXEC, GPL, GPM, GPN, GPO, GPLREADME  (takes around 1 hour to copy from TIPI to DSK).

 

Now used the Exbas 2.7 suite (ubergrom)

And any diskmanger like DM1000 to rename the files

DiSK/SYS

SYSTEM/SYS

LOAD/SYS

 

Then my other system with Myarc, started the floppy and it works to start to the MDOS prompt

Then GPL to get into the TIMODE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I will try to see if Fred Kaal can change his DM2K program to work with the DSRs.

 

but I am now wondering how do people use TIPI and Diskcontrollers together ? 

What is the best setup with the TIPI ? 

 

>1000 then TIPI is the preferred device for DSK1. DSK2. DSK3. DSK4. 

  but then I cannot access my 5.25 diskdrives (DSK1. and DSK2) and 3.5 inch drive (= DSK3 + DSK4 apparently)

  as the Diskcontroller is on >1100 and Corcomp ramdisk on >1400

 

> 1800 for TIPI,   then the Diskcontroller at >1100 is the preferred one for DSK1. DSK2. DSK3. and DSK4.

   and then I cannot save to TIPI DSKx...(or maybe DSK0. ? if Disk Managers allow it)

 

> DSK5, DSK6, DISKR are occupied by the >1400 Corcomp 512K 

 

Should there maybe be a kind of variable to set DSKx on the TIPI (e.g. 7, 8 or 9)

to have flexibility to save to any DSKx ?   (then we can leave it on CRU >1800)

(I try to avoid to change the jumper each time to change CRU addresses)

 

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I will try to see if Fred Kaal can change his DM2K program to work with the DSRs.

 

but I am now wondering how do people use TIPI and Diskcontrollers together ? 

What is the best setup with the TIPI ? 

 

>1000 then TIPI is the preferred device for DSK1. DSK2. DSK3. DSK4. 

  but then I cannot access my 5.25 diskdrives (DSK1. and DSK2) and 3.5 inch drive (= DSK3 + DSK4 apparently)

  as the Diskcontroller is on >1100 and Corcomp ramdisk on >1400

 

> 1800 for TIPI,   then the Diskcontroller at >1100 is the preferred one for DSK1. DSK2. DSK3. and DSK4.

   and then I cannot save to TIPI DSKx...(or maybe DSK0. ? if Disk Managers allow it)

 

> DSK5, DSK6, DISKR are occupied by the >1400 Corcomp 512K 

 

Should there maybe be a kind of variable to set DSKx on the TIPI (e.g. 7, 8 or 9)

to have flexibility to save to any DSKx ?   (then we can leave it on CRU >1800)

(I try to avoid to change the jumper each time to change CRU addresses)

 

I have a extension on my pbox TIPI that lets me add a jumper to 1800 without opening the pbox when I need to copy to real disks otherwise I leave it off making the Cru 1000.

 

 

 

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Mostly it works fine to leave TIPI at >1000, and for level 3 IO, like opening, reading, writing records, if the TIPI mapping isn't set, the softwares will try your floppy just fine. 

 

Once you have your floppy media files transferred to your TIPI, there isn't much need for the real floppy. 

 

Once files are on the TIPI managing them from the browser or windows share is easier.

 

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On 11/16/2019 at 3:58 PM, jwild said:

I figured it out. It turns out that the files i was working with were not TIFILES format. I was using the SMB shares and Windows Explorer to move files around - simple enough.

What I should have done was taken a look at the files on the web interface. That’s how i discovered that FBLOCKS wasn’t TIFILES format.

All I had to do was check the box to the left of the file, and then go to the drop down menu and convert it.



Then I copied to DSK1 using force cmd and it worked (slowly since it was a big file). It also reported only being 320 blocks in size

FbForth fires up now!
 

 

I am always happy to hear about someone digging into Forth.  No reason for just a few of us to back talkwards around here. :) 

 

If you have any spare band-width could I ask you try to start Camel99 Forth on a TIPI drive.

**Not to replace FBForth** (which has far better documentation for the novice)

I just don't have TIPI and want to know if it works. 

 

You can get a current version here.  

 

You really only need DSK1. or even less just the files CAMEL99  START and SYSTEM  just to see if it boots and loads the startup stuff.

No rush or pressure. I am just curious for a simple test by someone on this fancy new hardware.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

B

 

 

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On 5/7/2020 at 9:09 PM, arcadeshopper said:

I have a extension on my pbox TIPI that lets me add a jumper to 1800 without opening the pbox when I need to copy to real disks otherwise I leave it off making the Cru 1000.

 

 

 

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

I made the extension now, that works with the manual switch between >1800 and >1000 without opening the PEB box.

thank for this idea!

 

 

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On 5/7/2020 at 9:10 PM, jedimatt42 said:

Mostly it works fine to leave TIPI at >1000, and for level 3 IO, like opening, reading, writing records, if the TIPI mapping isn't set, the softwares will try your floppy just fine. 

 

Once you have your floppy media files transferred to your TIPI, there isn't much need for the real floppy. 

 

Once files are on the TIPI managing them from the browser or windows share is easier.

 

Thanks Matt for the ideas, I need to try them out.

 

I have not tried to remove the path, maybe if I remove one of the DSKx. (e.g. DSK3. as empty path), then I can use the real DSK3. floppydrive in parallel.

 

Because some modules like Multiplan, search for a disk called TIMP  (TIMultiPlan)  DSK.TIMP.xxxxx  and I think

the UCSD Pascal P-code card as well  (last time you mentioned that was not possible with the TIPI ? or maybe

create an option for future releases?  like DSK4, etc. but then DSK.diskname  pointing to a directory, I think

that will work).

 

Windows share, I need to investigate as well, that makes it easier to rename files probably

(as it is not possible in the browser interface?).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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