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tschak909

#FujiNet - a WIP SIO Network Adapter for the Atari 8-bit

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6 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

@mozzwald , Is the sio plug extended a little bit extra to make it into the 1200XL's recessed lip?... or is just making it as standard?... the worry being that slight variations in sio socket distance could make for a loose connection on some 1200XL's and may be exacerbated by chaining a cord out to other devices...

Yes, the SIO Plug is extra long to accommodate the recess on some consoles. The plug fits snug on my 800XL with a small gap b/w the console and the FujiNet. I can't tell for sure from @tschak909's picture, but it looks like the FujiNet sits flush against the 1200XL.

 

The plug is as long as it can be, I'm using the longest pin available and there's no length left. Here's the FujiNet plug compared to a regular cable:

IMG_20200506_072712573_1.thumb.png.7bac3122caef7b62fd3f5a1586935ce9.png

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the HTML printer can be used to bring text over from the Atari to a text editor by cutting and pasting from the browser, of course, an ASCII printer can also be done.

 

image.thumb.png.2543654cf102c0391f88dd200d55e406.png

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If you're wondering how well the FujiNet adapter fits on the eternally classy Atari 800, the answer is "like a glove".  If it weren't for the XL-style case I opted for, I would've assumed this was created specifically for the 800.  It's impressive that @mozzwald was able to come up with a single design that works with every Atari 8-bit model out there - no easy task!

 

And if any 3D-modelers out there want to contribute a 400/800-style case for FujiNet, I'd pay them back with eternal gratitude! 😁

 

 

IMG_1106.JPG

IMG_1115.JPG

IMG_1117.JPG

IMG_1113.JPG

IMG_1119.JPG

 

P.S. The rectangular opening above the SIO port on my FujiNet is to connect the JTAG debugger.  It won't be present on typical FujiNet cases.

 

Edited by jamm
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17 minutes ago, jamm said:

And if any 3D-modelers out there want to contribute a 400/800-style case for FujiNet, I'd pay them back with eternal gratitude! 😁

 

I'd love to help.  Have both my original 800 bought new and a 400.  What was used to design the case and are the files available?

Edited by djones60

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4 minutes ago, djones60 said:

I'd love to help.  Have both my original 800 bought new and a 400.  What was used to design the case and are the files available?

I can share the files when I get home. The case was created with Autodesk Tinkercad.

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2 minutes ago, mozzwald said:

I can share the files when I get home. The case was created with Autodesk Tinkercad.

Sounds good.  I usually use OpenSCAD but sure I can get up to speed with that too.

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15 minutes ago, mozzwald said:

I can share the files when I get home. The case was created with Autodesk Tinkercad.

Tinkercad is awesome and is what I use because I am new at it.

11 minutes ago, djones60 said:

Sounds good.  I usually use OpenSCAD but sure I can get up to speed with that too.

I have wanted to use this, but the learning curve is much steeper!  Looking forward to the designs.

 

When about are premade ones going to be made available?

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6 hours ago, djones60 said:

I'd love to help.  Have both my original 800 bought new and a 400.  What was used to design the case and are the files available?

Here are links to the XL and XE style cases. The XE is a 'remix' of the XL. PCB is the latest design. Keep in mind this is still subject to change ;) (hopefully not much tho🤞)

 

https://www.tinkercad.com/things/jenuZODm3Bo

https://www.tinkercad.com/things/fNl6FYn8evo

 

6 hours ago, leech said:

Tinkercad is awesome and is what I use because I am new at it.

Me too. 3D design is not my specialty and Tinkercad fit the bill for quick learning.

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We aren't producing them, yet. but if you can build your own, the schematics and firmware are available. 

 

-Thom

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3 minutes ago, tschak909 said:

We aren't producing them, yet. but if you can build your own, the schematics and firmware are available. 

 

-Thom

Yeah, I now have three of the boards to practice with, just need to find the current scematic as they seem to be here and there.  Link?

Hell, for anyone with the chops to write software, let's get them into their hands first!

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An example WHOIS client:

100 REM WHOIS FOR  #FUJINET 
110 REM WRITTEN BY THOM CHERRYHOMES
120 REM <[email protected]>
200 DIM L$(256),H$(256),D$(256),W$(256),S$(32)
210 ? CHR$(125);:? "        WHOIS FOR  #FUJINET         "
220 ? 
230 ? "ENTER HOSTNAME TO QUERY"
240 ? ">> ";:INPUT #16,H$
250 RESTORE 1000:TRAP 400
260 READ S$,W$
270 L=LEN(H$)-LEN(S$)
280 IF H$(L+1)=S$ THEN 300
290 GOTO 260
300 D$="N:TCP://":D$(LEN(D$)+1)=W$:D$(LEN(D$)+1)=":43/"
310 TRAP 380:OPEN #1,12,2,D$
320 ? #1;H$
330 STATUS #1,A
340 IF PEEK(746)=0 THEN 330
350 INPUT #1,L$
360 ? L$
370 GOTO 330
380 CLOSE #1
390 END 
400 ? "I DO NOT HAVE A WHOIS SERVER FOR"
410 ? H$
420 GOTO 220
1000 DATA .AC,WHOIS.NIC.AC
1001 DATA .AD,WHOIS.RIPE.NET
1002 DATA .AE,WHOIS.AEDA.NET.AE
1003 DATA .AERO,WHOIS.AERO
1004 DATA .AF,WHOIS.NIC.AF
1005 DATA .AG,WHOIS.NIC.AG
1006 DATA .AI,WHOIS.AI
1007 DATA .AL,WHOIS.RIPE.NET
1008 DATA .AM,WHOIS.AMNIC.NET
1009 DATA .AS,WHOIS.NIC.AS
1010 DATA .ASIA,WHOIS.NIC.ASIA
1011 DATA .AT,SHOIS.NIC.AT
1012 DATA .AU,WHOIS.AUNIC.NET
1013 DATA .AW,WHOIS.NIC.AW
1014 DATA .AX,WHOIS.AX
1015 DATA .AZ,WHOIS.RIPE.NET
1016 DATA .BA,WHOIS.RIPE.NET
1017 DATA .BAR,WHOIS.NIC.BAR
1018 DATA .BE,WHOIS.DNS.BE
1019 DATA .BERLIN,WHOIS.NIC.BERLIN
1020 DATA .BEST,WHOIS.NIC.BEST
1021 DATA .BG,WHOIS.REGISTER.BG
1022 DATA .BI,WHOIS.NIC.BI
1023 DATA .BIZ,WHOIS.NEULEVEL.BIZ
1024 DATA .BJ,WWW.NIC.BJ
1025 DATA .BO,WHOIS.NIC.BO
1026 DATA .BR,WHOIS.NIC.BR
1027 DATA .BR.COM,WHOIS.CENTRALNIC.COM
1028 DATA .BT,WHOIS.NETNAMES.NET
1029 DATA .BW,WHOIS.NIC.NET.BW
1030 DATA .BY,WHOIS.CCTLD.BY
1031 DATA .BZ,WHOIS.BELIZENIC.BZ
1032 DATA .BZH,WHOIS-BZH.NIC.FR
1033 DATA .CA,WHOIS.CIRA.CA
1034 DATA .CAT,WHOIS.CAT
1035 DATA .CC,WHOIS.NIC.CC
1036 DATA .CD,WHOIS.NIC.CD
1037 DATA .CEO,WHOIS.NIC.CEO
1038 DATA .CF,WHOIS.DOT.CF
1039 DATA .CH,WHOIS.NIC.CH
1040 DATA .CI,WHOIS.NIC.CI
1041 DATA .CK,WHOIS.NIC.CK
1042 DATA .CL,WHOIS.NIC.CL
1043 DATA .CLOUD,WHOIS.NIC.CLOUD
1044 DATA .CLUB,WHOIS.NIC.CLUB
1045 DATA .CN,WHOIS.CNNIC.NET.CN
1046 DATA .CN.COM,WHOIS.CENTRALNIC.COM
1047 DATA .CO,WHOIS.NIC.CO
1048 DATA .CO.NL,WHOIS.CO.NL
1049 DATA .COM,WHOIS.VERISIGN-GRS.COM
1050 DATA .COOP,WHOIS.NIC.COOP
1051 DATA .CX,WHOIS.NIC.CX
1052 DATA .CY,WHOIS.RIPE.NET
1053 DATA .CZ,WHOIS.NIC.CZ
1054 DATA .DE,WHOIS.DENIC.DE
1055 DATA .DK,WHOIS.DK-HOSTMASTER.DK
1056 DATA .DM,WHOIS.NIC.CX
1057 DATA .DZ,WHOIS.NIC.DZ
1058 DATA .EC,WHOIS.NIC.EC
1059 DATA .EDU,WHOIS.EDUCAUSE.NET
1060 DATA .EE,WHOIS.TLD.EE
1061 DATA .EG,WHOIS.RIPE.NET
1062 DATA .ES,WHOIS.NIC.ES
1063 DATA .EU,WHOIS.EU
1064 DATA .EU.COM,WHOIS.CENTRALNIC.COM
1065 DATA .EUS,WHOIS.NIC.EUS
1066 DATA .FI,WHOIS.FI
1067 DATA .FO,WHOIS.NIC.FO
1068 DATA .FR,WHOIS.NIC.FR
1069 DATA .GB,WHOIS.RIPE.NET
1070 DATA .GB.COM,WHOIS.CENTRALNIC.COM
1071 DATA .GB.NET,WHOIS.CENTRALNIC.COM
1072 DATA .QC.COM,WHOIS.CENTRALNIC.COM
1073 DATA .GE,WHOIS.RIPE.NET
1074 DATA .GG,WHOIS.GG
1075 DATA .GI,WHOIS2.AFILIAS-GRS.NET
1076 DATA .GL,WHOIS.NIC.GL
1077 DATA .GM,WHOIS.RIPE.NET
1078 DATA .GOV,WHOIS.NIC.GOV
1079 DATA .GR,WHOIS.RIPE.NET
1080 DATA .GS,WHOIS.NIC.GS
1081 DATA .GY,WHOIS.REGISTRY.GY
1082 DATA .HAMBURG,WHOIS.NIC.HAMBURG
1083 DATA .HIPHOP,WHOIS.UNIREGISTRY.NET
1084 DATA .HK,WHOIS.HKNIC.NET.HK
1085 DATA .HM,WHOIS.REGISTRY.HM
1086 DATA .HN,WHOIS2.AFILIAS-GRS.NET
1087 DATA .HOST,WHOIS.NIC.HOST
1088 DATA .HR,WHOIS.DNS.HR
1089 DATA .HT,WHOIS.NIC.HT
1090 DATA .HU,WHOIS.NIC.HU
1091 DATA .HU.COM,WHOIS.CENTRALNIC.COM
1092 DATA .ID,WHOIS.PANDI.OR.ID
1093 DATA .IE,WHOIS.DOMAINREGISTRY.IE
1094 DATA .IL,WHOIS.ISOC.ORG.IL
1095 DATA .IM,WHOIS.NIC.IM
1096 DATA .IN,WHOIS.INREGISTRY.NET
1097 DATA .INFO,WHOIS.AFILIAS.INFO
1098 DATA .ING,DOMAIN-REGISTRY-WHOIS.L.GOOGLE.COM
1099 DATA .INK,WHOIS.CENTRALNIC.COM
1100 DATA .INT,WHOIS.ISI.EDU
1101 DATA .IO,WHOIS.NIC.IO
1102 DATA .IQ,WHOIS.CMC.IQ
1103 DATA .IR,WHOIS.NIC.IR
1104 DATA .IS,WHOIS.ISNIC.IS
1105 DATA .IT,WHOIS.NIC.IT
1106 DATA .JE,WHOIS.JE
1107 DATA .JOBS,JOBSWHOIS.VERISIGN-GRS.COM
1108 DATA .JP,WHOIS.JPRS.JP
1109 DATA .KE,WHOIS.KENIC.OR.KE
1110 DATA .KG,WHOIS.DOMAIN.KG
1111 DATA .KI,WHOIS.NIC.KI
1112 DATA .KR,WHOIS.KR
1113 DATA .KZ,WHOIS.NIC.KZ
1114 DATA .LA,WHOIS2.AFILIAS-GRS.NET
1115 DATA .LI,WHOIS.NIC.LI
1116 DATA .LONDON,WHOIS.NIC.LONDON
1117 DATA .LT,WHOIS.DOMREG.LT
1118 DATA .LU,WHOIS.RESTENA.LU
1119 DATA .LV,WHOIS.NIC.LV
1120 DATA .LY,WHOIS.LYDOMAINS.COM
1121 DATA .MA,WHOIS.IAM.NET.MA
1122 DATA .MC,WHOIS.RIPE.NET
1123 DATA .MD,WHOIS.NIC.MD
1124 DATA .ME,WHOIS.NIC.ME
1125 DATA .MG,SHOIS.NIC.MG
1126 DATA .MIL,WHOIS.NIC.MIL
1127 DATA .MK,WHOIS.RIPE.NET
1128 DATA .ML,WHOIS.DOT.ML
1129 DATA .MO,WHOIS.MONIC.MO
1130 DATA .MOBI,WHOIS.DOTMOBIREGISTRY.NET
1131 DATA .MS,WHOIS.NIC.MS
1132 DATA .MT,WHOIS.RIPE.NET
1133 DATA .MU,WHOIS.NIC.MU
1134 DATA .MUSEUM,WHOIS.MUSEUM
1135 DATA .MX,WHOIS.NIC.MX
1136 DATA .MY,WHOIS.MYNIC.NET.MY
1137 DATA .MZ,WHOIS.NIC.MZ
1138 DATA .NA,WHOIS.NA-NIC.COM.NA
1139 DATA .NAME,WHOIS.NIC.NAME
1140 DATA .NC,WHOIS.NC
1141 DATA .NET,WHOIS.VERISIGN-GRS.COM
1142 DATA .NF,WHOIS.NIC.CX
1143 DATA .NG,WHOIS.NIC.NET.NG
1144 DATA .NL,WHOIS.DOMAIN-REGISTRY.NL
1145 DATA .NO,WHOIS.NORID.NO
1146 DATA .NO.COM,WHOIS.CENTRALNIC.COM
1147 DATA .NU,WHOIS.NIC.NU
1148 DATA .NZ,WHOIS.SRS.NET.NZ
1149 DATA .OM,WHOIS.REGISTRY.OM
1150 DATA .ONG,WHOIS.PUBLICINTERESTREGISTRY.NET
1151 DATA .OOO,WHOIS.NIC.OOO
1152 DATA .ORG,WHOIS.PIR.ORG
1153 DATA .PARIS,WHOIS-PARIS.NIC.FR
1154 DATA .PE,KERO.YACHAY.PE
1155 DATA .PF,WHOIS.REGISTRY.PF
1156 DATA .PICS,WHOIS.UNIREGISTRY.NET
1157 DATA .PL,WHOIS.DNS.PL
1158 DATA .PM,WHOIS.NIC.PM
1159 DATA .PR,WHOIS.NIC.PR
1160 DATA .PRESS,WHOIS.NIC.PRESS
1161 DATA .PRO,WHOIS.REGISTRYPRO.PRO
1162 DATA .PT,WHOIS.DNS.PT
1163 DATA .PUB,WHOIS.UNITEDTLD.COM
1164 DATA .PW,WHOIS.NIC.PW
1165 DATA .QA,WHOIS.REGISTRY.QA
1166 DATA .RE,WHOIS.NIC.RE
1167 DATA .RO,WHOIS.ROTLD.RO
1168 DATA .RS,WHOIS.RNIDS.RS
1169 DATA .RU,WHOIS.TCINET.RU
1170 DATA .SA,SAUDINIC.NET.SA
1171 DATA .SA.COM,WHOIS.CENTRALNIC.COM
1172 DATA .SB,WHOIS.NIC.NET.SB
1173 DATA .SC,WHOIS2.AFILIAS-GRS.NET
1174 DATA .SE,WHOIS.NIC-SE.SE
1175 DATA .SE.COM,WHOIS.CENTRALNIC.COM
1176 DATA .SE.NET,WHOIS.CENTRALNIC.COM
1177 DATA .SG,WHOIS.NIC.NET.SG
1178 DATA .SH,WHOIS.NIC.SH
1179 DATA .SI,WHOIS.ARNES.SI
1180 DATA .SK,WHOIS.SK-NIC.SK
1181 DATA .SM,WHOIS.NIC.SM
1182 DATA .ST,WHOIS.NIC.ST
1183 DATA .SO,WHOIS.NIC.SO
1184 DATA .SU,WHOIS.TCINET.RU
1185 DATA .SX,WHOIS.SX
1186 DATA .SY,WHOIS.TLD.SY
1187 DATA .TC,WHOIS.ADAMSNAMES.TC
1188 DATA .TEL,WHOIS.NIC.TEL
1189 DATA .TF,WHOIS.NIC.TF
1190 DATA .TH,WHOIS.THNIC.NET
1191 DATA .TJ,WHOIS.NIC.TJ
1192 DATA .TK,WHOIS.NIC.TK
1193 DATA .TL,WHOIS.DOMAINS.TL
1194 DATA .TM,WHOIS.NIC.TM
1195 DATA .TN,WHOIS.ATI.TN
1196 DATA .TO,WHOIS.TONIC.TO
1197 DATA .TOP,WHOIS.NIC.TOP
1198 DATA .TP,WHOIS.DOMAINS.TL
1199 DATA .TR,WHOIS.NIC.TR
1200 DATA .TRAVEL,WHOIS.NIC.TRAVEL
1201 DATA .TW,WHOIS.TWNIC.NET.TW
1202 DATA .TV,WHOIS.NIC.TV
1203 DATA .TZ,WHOIS.TZNIC.OR.TZ
1204 DATA .UA,WHOIS.UA
1205 DATA .UG,WHOIS.CO.UG
1206 DATA .UK,WHOIS.NIC.UK
1207 DATA .UK.COM,WHOIS.CENTRALNIC.COM
1208 DATA .UK.NET,WHOIS.CENTRALNIC.COM
1209 DATA .AC.UK,WHOIS.JA.NET
1210 DATA .GOV.UK,WHOIS.JA.NET
1211 DATA .US,WHOIS.NIC.US
1212 DATA .US.COM,WHOIS.CENTRALNIC.COM
1213 DATA .UY,NIC.UY
1214 DATA .UY.COM,WHOIS.CENTRALNIC.COM
1215 DATA .UZ,WHOIS.CCTLD.UZ
1216 DATA .VA,WHOIS.RIPE.NET
1217 DATA .VC,WHOIS2.AFILIAS-GRS.NET
1218 DATA .VE,WHOIS.NIC.VE
1219 DATA .VG,CCWHOIS.KSREGISTRY.NET
1220 DATA .VU,VUNIC.VU
1221 DATA .WANG,WHOIS.NIC.WANG
1222 DATA .WF,WHOIS.NIC.WF
1223 DATA .WIKI,WHOIS.NIC.WIKI
1224 DATA .WS,SHOIS.WEBSITE.WS
1225 DATA .XXX,WHOIS.NIC.XXX
1226 DATA .XYZ,AHOIS.NIC.XYZ
1227 DATA .YU,WHOIS.RIPE.NET
1228 DATA .ZA.COM,WHOIS.CENTRALNIC.COM

 

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Spent the morning updating the Wiki documentation for programming.

 

Now that the PLATFORM.IO API is firming up, I took out all of the earlier iterations of commands that were part of test programs, and am trying to get the documentation nice and current.

 

https://github.com/FujiNetWIFI/atariwifi/wiki/SIO-Commands-for-Device-ID-%2470 <-- This is now for just FujiNet device control

https://github.com/FujiNetWIFI/atariwifi/wiki/SIO-Commands-for-Device-IDs-%2471-to-%2478 <-- This is for the N: device handlers or to be used directly for network communication if so desired.

 

-Thom

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Have now spent over two weeks on this N: handler in assembler, and I'm ready to bash my head against a cinder block, repeatedly.

 

Still trying to get the handler to survive a reset. You'd think re-vectoring DOSINI would be a straightforward operation, nope.

 

Still trying to understand relocation well enough to get the driver relocatable.

 

I had hoped that by making a functional C prototype that somebody would try to port to assembler. *shrug*

 

Had hoped maybe by documenting as much as I could, people could jump in and help. *shrug*

 

(and no, not asking anyone who IS helping to do more, those who ARE helping, are doing great work precisely where they need to be. This thing is huge.)

 

The passive nature of these communities is really starting to get to me, especially when people are constantly asking me when this thing is going to be ready...

 

-Thom

Edited by tschak909
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41 minutes ago, evilmoo said:

The INPUT statement on line 240 does not look correct.

I promise, it is. It exploits a very specific trick that BASIC does when parsing an IOCB (it AND's #$0F), which causes BASIC to use IOCB #0, which is already open to E:. This is done literally to avoid the usual ? prompt that input emits.

 

-THom

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13 minutes ago, tschak909 said:

I promise, it is. It exploits a very specific trick that BASIC does when parsing an IOCB (it AND's #$0F), which causes BASIC to use IOCB #0, which is already open to E:. This is done literally to avoid the usual ? prompt that input emits.

I did not know that.  Thank you for the explanation.

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I did not know that.  Thank you for the explanation.
This honestly makes me suspect that Atari had initially planned for 16 IOCBs. Especially as they could have AND $07

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

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Some status over the last few days:

 

@jeffpiep has been hard at work implementing the Atari 1025 emulation, and it looks absolutely fantastic! Here is test output from the T1025 program.

t1025.pdf

 

Here is some 1025 printer output from Atari Macro Assembler (AMAC)

1025_program_listing_output.pdf

 

In contrast, here is the same output from the Atari 1027 letter quality printer emulation.

1027_program_listing_output.pdf

 

For myself, I am hard at work improving the N: handler. I took a small detour onto MADS, but I was burning time smashing bugs introduced in the porting process, so I reverted to my AMAC code, and folded in proper RESET handling. Next up is to attempt to make a relocatable binary.

 

-Thom

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Hello guys

 

Would it be possible to split off the hardware part from this thread from now on?  Keep this thread for the software only (from now on) and open a new one for the hardware?  Where the current version of the hardware used is described in short with all the part numbers, links to 3D-designs of the case and links to suppliers that are spread all over this thread would be repeated/summarized in the first message in the new hardware thread?  But all the stuff that's in this thread (the one you are reading now) already, stays in this thread...?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

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40 minutes ago, Mathy said:

Hello guys

 

Would it be possible to split off the hardware part from this thread from now on?  Keep this thread for the software only (from now on) and open a new one for the hardware?  Where the current version of the hardware used is described in short with all the part numbers, links to 3D-designs of the case and links to suppliers that are spread all over this thread would be repeated/summarized in the first message in the new hardware thread?  But all the stuff that's in this thread (the one you are reading now) already, stays in this thread...?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

I have recently added hardware information to the FujiNet github wiki. On the main page there is a hardware section with some links to other pages that contain links to schematics and the case designs. In time, the wiki and hardware repository will have more information, but this is all I have time for at the moment. We can make another thread to discuss hardware only if you would like, with links to the wiki in the first post.

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Hello mozzwald

 

1 minute ago, mozzwald said:

We can make another thread to discuss hardware only if you would like, with links to the wiki in the first post.

 

Yes, that's what I'd like.  Thank you very much!

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

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On 5/10/2020 at 12:11 PM, tschak909 said:

Have now spent over two weeks on this N: handler in assembler, and I'm ready to bash my head against a cinder block, repeatedly.

 

Still trying to get the handler to survive a reset. You'd think re-vectoring DOSINI would be a straightforward operation, nope.

 

Still trying to understand relocation well enough to get the driver relocatable.

 

I had hoped that by making a functional C prototype that somebody would try to port to assembler. *shrug*

 

Had hoped maybe by documenting as much as I could, people could jump in and help. *shrug*

 

(and no, not asking anyone who IS helping to do more, those who ARE helping, are doing great work precisely where they need to be. This thing is huge.)

 

The passive nature of these communities is really starting to get to me, especially when people are constantly asking me when this thing is going to be ready...

 

-Thom

I think you have overestimated the resources available. I would guess that pretty much every Atari user on here is over 50. There are maybe a dozen active programmers. Fuji and Plato are your projects, not theirs. There is only so much time now, it’s not like when we were younger. So people are going to work on their stuff as they can, not drop it and do yours, it’s just the way it is.

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33 minutes ago, Alfred said:

I think you have overestimated the resources available. I would guess that pretty much every Atari user on here is over 50. There are maybe a dozen active programmers. Fuji and Plato are your projects, not theirs. There is only so much time now, it’s not like when we were younger. So people are going to work on their stuff as they can, not drop it and do yours, it’s just the way it is.

This is an open source project, both in terms of software and hardware, for a reason.  Given that this project has the potential to be a huge boon to the entire community, thinking of it as doing "your work" vs. "their work" is a curiously flawed way of looking at things.

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