Unicorns season: Prince of Persia for the A8!

[_The Doctor__]

a Persian guy who owns a garage in our area likes the game! ...left his native land because of current government religious situation...

directed me to some sites showing some pictures and historical and other stuff... Likes the old city pictures of intro... I may make him an Atari owner just for this game btw... though he can have it on his wintel box.... he liked the old 8 bit, called it character and charm...  I've gotten used to some of his talk in that way.

 

anyway you can peruse the sites given for a picture here or there and it's up to you if you wish to read the history and other stuff... good or bad...

 

https://www.persiansarenotarabs.com/persian-culture/

https://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Languages/persian_not_farsi.htm

 

he's into Zoroastrianism(don't ask-you can look it up), says Iraq was the heart and capitol of Persia, not Iran, though it became that later after several conquerings of Persia, that sort of stuff. I guess I've got some stuff to research...

Edited May 28, 2020 by _The Doctor__

[danwinslow]

Not letting perfection be the enemy of good is probably a thing here. Getting the game itself working is probably paramount, and non-amazing opening screens can be fixed later if desired.

[TIX]

 

[_The Doctor__]

30 minutes ago, TIX said:

 

then don't ask for a critique...

word's like ,  what do you think?  or does it look good? let me get your take on flicker this or that... pick your favorite... what sounds better?  stuff like that... when you post things and use words like ... I'm not sure and post different renditions of a thing... it sounds or looks like a person WANTS feedback, and you can expect a response.

 

I wonder how many people ran up with a pile of code, dumped it on a persons desk, said assemble this, and do as your post implies. Nope. I ain't buying it.

   Many of us have seen this sort of thing before... five different things presented, people choose, the designer actually already had an idea or favorite in mind and then blows their stack...

 

does this make me look fat?  8 articles of clothing tried on...   only the wearer knows which one they truly wish to wear...

 

With that being said, you are putting all of this on a public forum and you are going to get some feedback in an event.

 

So no... none of it makes you look any which way, I mean.. you make them all look great!!

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by _The Doctor__

[Jacques]

@TIX

Sorry, that meme does not add up... First asking for opinion, then accusing people of forcing someone to do "work", which authors volunteerily started, when fans of the project tend to think different. Especially the sounds and also the intro parts could be given almost ready to use, not forcing anyone to do more. 

And if worldwide-known intro is "insignifficant detail", that's really weird attitude to such great project. 

You Guys had all the praise and still have lot of it, together with admiration of your talents, but stubborness and being cocky don't do any good to it. 

And I don't buy the idea of intro similiarity to Karateka. Mechner also could have kept that style, but he moved on and done it oriental way. 

[_The Doctor__]

In the spirit of providing Ideas, if going for the Karateka scroll, can the scroll be in the Artwork intros text area box?

combine the two sort of thing?

 

The opening to POP was multiple.. the city scene, the text screens, the mini movies, and more text, etc... it was sort of a living story book, a page a text, a scene played out on scene, a page of text...

 

fwiw, more than one disk side or larger cartridge allows for this.. if that's a reservation....

Edited May 28, 2020 by _The Doctor__

[Atari8guy]

I am looking forward to and greatly appreciate the effort to port this.   Phenomenal.

 

 

[rensoup]

4 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

then don't ask for a critique...

word's like ,  what do you think?  or does it look good? let me get your take on flicker this or that... pick your favorite... what sounds better?  stuff like that... when you post things and use words like ... I'm not sure and post different renditions of a thing... it sounds or looks like a person WANTS feedback, and you can expect a response.

I keep repeating myself:

Quote

Sure, I like to discuss choices... between preapproved options

I asked for feedback on the different flickering methods on real machines and initially, all I got was "the original pop intro looks better" or "Please no flickering". 

I didn't ask "Do you want flickering ?" or "Do you like my unfinished intro text mockup ? or Do you prefer the original intro?"

 

I know I want flickering and I don't want the old intro. You disagree and want to express that, no problem, just don't whine about it (I'm not pointing at you specifically)

 

Making the old intro would be like ticking a checkbox on a todo list. You do it because it's on the list, not because it's good. To me that's a waste of time.

 

4 hours ago, Jacques said:

And if worldwide-known intro is "insignifficant detail", that's really weird attitude to such great project. 

 

There's no point arguing endlessly about something that's not done  (see the various PoP threads that dragged on for years and went nowhere )

 

Just wait for it and then you can unleash your fury ?

[_The Doctor__]

No one came up to you as in the TIX example and said I want this big pile of flickering displays so I can nitpick it later...

-

So there' that to start... and that might be where it needed to end.

BUT...

The bickering started before any flickering question that may have set people flinging about. Seems that's all good.  I'm just responding to what appears to be brewing and I keep offering ideas to make the best of both worlds.. for all that's worth. If you think those ideas and responses are whining it becomes possible to suspect that something struck a nerve because there wasn't any of that, this all just responses to the silliness unfolding. I sure hope this is just some flip remark you're making. I think everyone has been helpful in one way or another. I summed up from the entirety of this thread. You are free to take it further out of context using this singular last example as the backstop, lot's of people love to do that. It won't change what he posted. I'm sure there is bleed over from the poll thread as well, as both are being used at this point for basically the same purpose.

 

Everyones free to vent, whine, whatever floats their boat. I don't see anything constructive in it. At least there are people offering ideas to bring it together for you. I don't see how that's a bad thing. No one comes up to you as in the TIX example and said I want this big pile of flickering displays so I can nitpick it later...

 

Everything appeared to be going great, then something happened... I'm still hopeful though. Leaves me wondering what issue will be taken with that.

 

Bidding you peace in this turbulence, @rensoup. Having been supportive of your efforts in varying degrees, wanting happiness for you and your success. Please consider that while reading the majority of the posts.

 

Your Avid Supporter,

_T D__

Edited May 28, 2020 by _The Doctor__

[Faicuai]

No better way to come up with new (and better) ideas than a lively, straightforward discussion (and criticism).

 

This is all happening because... the product is already REALLY good and not exactly prone to substantial improvement (and that is not a bad thing, at all...)

 

As an example, look at my latest end-scene mock-up... did I go too far with this version? You let me know guys...

 

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Faicuai

[+Stephen]

3 minutes ago, Faicuai said:

No better way to come up with new (and better) ideas than a lively, straightforward discussion (and criticism).

 

This is all happening because... the product is already REALLY good and not exactly prone to substantial improvement (and that is not a bad thing, at all...)

 

As an example, look at my latest end-scene mock-up... did I go too far with this version? You let me know guys...

Wow - it's so realistic you can smell the skank through the screen and I think I now have an STD

[+Stephen]

58 minutes ago, rensoup said:

I keep repeating myself:

Quote

Sure, I like to discuss choices... between preapproved options

I guess in this case, the best thing to do, is don't ask for feedback on, or dicsuss about something you're not willing to discuss.  If the choice has been made, use it and move on.  That's like asking my dog if he wants a piece of steak and then yelling at him for trying to take it.

[+Allan]

I just want to say, thanks, TIX, for taking the time to bring Prince of Persia to the Atari 8-bits. I really appreciate taking all the time and effort in doing this.

 

Allan

 

[José Pereira]

11 hours ago, rensoup said:

I asked for feedback on the different flickering methods on real machines and initially, all I got was "the original pop intro looks better" or "Please no flickering". 

I didn't ask "Do you want flickering ?" or "Do you like my unfinished intro text mockup ? or Do you prefer the original intro?"

 

I know I want flickering and I don't want the old intro. You disagree and want to express that, no problem, just don't whine about it (I'm not pointing at you specifically)

 

Making the old intro would be like ticking a checkbox on a todo list. You do it because it's on the list, not because it's good. To me that's a waste of time.

So once and again and will never give up.

PoP intros with all those screens is like a text and pictures book. Don't having that is like the game don't exist.

A8 needs this and many others games but isn't just not have a loading screen pictures, all these screens makes really part of the game.

 

You don't do things by hand like using G2F so you cannot have screens that have PMGs over it DLIs,... by simply using a modern converter.

You'll need me, @emkay or any other that you just don't think is needed nor want to receive different opinions.

You're living in a small box where only you two are and think you're the owner of the reason and no others interest...

 

@TIX don't want anybody just you two and if reading all posts we get that.

[José Pereira]

11 hours ago, rensoup said:

(see the various PoP threads that dragged on for years and went nowhere )

 

No, it don't get what you and others saw.

It seems you have lots of time and a good life so in just a quick instant you get it running.

Have you the problems in life that @Franco Catrin had (and I think he mentioned it even to the public) and we'll already had PoP by these days.

Maybe not with all those rocks of Dungeons beautifully designed but at least with all like the original and that A8 owners really deserve.

Sad he couldn't continue but was always keeping said us of the team that he intends to do it on a near future.

Revolting now is if happens you'll never do the game and this wasn't happening.

So I still keep saying (and is a first time I say this but will continue here and everywhere ther's a PoP talking and/or videos, screens,...) this is just PoP game levels to play nothing more.

I hope you finish the game just for me continue saying on and on...

But I sincerily hope that with your 'ways of', what you listen to the others and your likes that don't see more games from you.

This ended on a game done by you (and @TIX), for you (and @TIX) so you (and @TIX) have a good time with it.

[rensoup]

@_The Doctor__

I'm fine with everything you said in this thread (doesn't mean I'm always agreeing), not sure why you're taking it personally when I said it wasn't meant for you specifically

The whining comment is about people who were never involved yet complain vehemently about irrelevant crap like missing window pixels and want guards running in Spandex. And I think TIX's comics post is just another way of saying the same thing (if not 100% related to the situation)
If you really don't see whining, perhaps you have people on your ignore list.

I made the mistake of saying the intro was going to be different wihout explaining properly and posted a flicker test and made a comment about it being B/W and now everybody think I'm going for a Karateka style intro.

 

It's still going to be the same intro just with an different art style... and of course I will try to push the A8.

@Jacques

I'm ok with criticism about things that exist. You mentioned palette for Palace levels... I still like my purple so I'll keep it but I need an alternate palette for the later levels, so yeah I can recycle my orange palette for those even though I'm not exactly fond of it. So yeah I take unsolicited feedback into consideration sometimes.

 

I'm even ok with attempts at arm twisting me by saying "everybody disagrees with you". Doesn't mean I'm going to budge though...

 

 

The problem with all this arguing is that I get nothing done.

[Jacques]

@rensoup

Cool, the "sand" colors as an option to purple palace would be really nice (if I understood your plan correctly).

As for "everybody disagrees with you", it's not something I wrote literally (it's never everybody anyway), but can be most of the rest.

Even though everyone has his own taste how things should look, there's common denominator and sweet spot defined what the most of us like.

So even though you chose your path, please accept that your individual taste can be strange for others, who like purples and blacks less.

Something like: "If ten people say you're drunk, lie down" Or at least consider it for a moment(!) ?

 

Anyway, let's just wait for an "artist's vision" and see, I have no intention to unleash any fury now or in the future ( ? ), the joy of playing PoP on Atari has been great already.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Jacques

[+Philsan]

Considered the masterpiece he programmed, I think he will surprise us with a nice prologue screen too.

I quote myself and I add that Rensoup has never chosen easy paths.
Therefore I am convinced he will surprise us (again).

[rensoup]

22 hours ago, Jacques said:

Cool, the "sand" colors as an option to purple palace would be really nice (if I understood your plan correctly).

Not exactly but just wait for it ?

[rensoup]

So I tend not to post stuff that's not fully done but I'd like to not leave everybody confused with that text thing so here's an updated version... still WIP of course

 

 

 

fnt.obx

[TheNameOfTheGame]

16 minutes ago, rensoup said:

On 5/26/2020 at 6:07 AM, José Pereira said:

 

Interesting.  A little better (I like the font), but overall I still prefer the more "Persian" one that José made up.

[TheRaven81]

42 minutes ago, rensoup said:

There's a typo. Missed the k in "know", in the last sentence. 

 

I'm gunna take a moment and apologize. I came to my senses, realizing things like this take time.  There's a thing programmers say. It goes something like "Make it work first. Make it look fancy later."  Baby steps, people. Baby steps. It looks like this now, sure. But it works. That's all that matters at the moment. And it already looks better than it did before. That big leading letter makes a big difference. Sure, José's screens do look a lot better than this. For now. But in the end this intro will probably end up way better than the original screens. The game is already looking like the best port made. I don't doubt the intro will have that same quality when it is finished.  And then when it does, we'll all drop our jaws and eat our words.

[José Pereira]

1 hour ago, rensoup said:

So I tend not to post stuff that's not fully done but I'd like to not leave everybody confused with that text thing so here's an updated version... still WIP of course

 

 

 

fnt.obx 6.28 kB · 7 downloads

This maked me laugh as why a simple (and even is simple because you're keeping the flickering).

If people just look at the screen and don't load the .obx they may be 'fooled' by the letters (they look like if in 640x).

 

This is mathematic:

@rensoup (good coder)

+

@TIX (good designer)

=

good game to play and good designs...

 

What's missing? A 3rd person to complicate things...

One just pick-up black&white and that is easy to turn into code and the other just design things on a modern pc.

If they weren't 'blind' and listen others to not even need the credits then a 3rd one knowing A8 gfxs and colours would get the 'best of the two worlds' keeping Jordan Mechner's design and is what all expect of a PoP version on A8 just adding Missiles on the sides instead of in the Upper-case letters:

 +  = 

All _text2 _the two tegether _almost black.g2f 

All _text2 _the two tegether _almost black.xex

 

Then that can be a little less black inside:

All _text2 _the two tegether _almost black.g2f

All _text2 _the two tegether _almost black.xex

Or still keeping a blue but darker in luminance 0 inside:

All _text2 _the two tegether _darkest blue.g2f

All _text2 _the two tegether _darkest blue.xex

 

You're problem is that you don't use G2F and don't want anyone more involved.

You want the games exactly the way you want. Really just by you and only for you.

Had you sense of community and talking things can allways come into some arrangment where all gives a little on/off and in the end all are happy.

But no!... Easy is 'fool' other's with the Karateka talkings just to not have others proposals.

Go fine and ahead, you sure will get there...

Againa big .

I'll try to get a way to somehow hack it and change things to have the screens like original if nobody helps me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheRaven81]

@José Pereira

 

My dude, just drop it and let the man do his magic. You are not helping any with those posts. If anything, you are only hindering his work.

On 5/29/2020 at 7:38 AM, rensoup said:

The problem with all this arguing is that I get nothing done.

 

[patjomki]

1 hour ago, TheRaven81 said:

That big leading letter makes a big difference.

 

I second that, although the outline font irritates a little (comparing with other versions).

 

IMHO the font is also a little too big but that might be because I am used to all the other conversions. Like @TheRaven81 suggested @rensoup might have decided like he did because this way has advantages for the rest of the intro?

 

BTW, I tested the latest version on my crt/pal atari 800xl and flickering is noticeable so I'd still prefer the none flickering version.

 

Nevertheless I am eagerly awaiting the final version because we are already waiting for more than 30years now and a8 library just simply deserves a conversion (flickering or not).

 

P.S.: Also dungeons

Edited May 30, 2020 by patjomki