Mclaneinc Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 You really need to re-read what you have just written to see how negative it is... What we have here are people working in their own time at zero pay or little pay writing stuff to pass on to us the non authors as a work of love and time so if I say its great its because I mean it, could I do the same, NO.. There's also a fine line between constructive criticism and rudeness, the choice of "some effort is great and incredible , some is less spectacular" is one such comment...Starts out ok but ends with a deliberate downer, a chosen word that just says defeat. Its not needed, there are a lot of ways to say you didn't think it was as good IN YOUR OPINION but you chose a word to inflict a sense of failure in a strong way yet was it a failure, in your eye's yes but others do not share that opinion. I love our devs, they work for free or little money in return, they do stuff I cannot do and so I like to thank them, I'm not here to hold their hand and tell them they are mega stars and if I see something I think is an odd choice I say but I always respect their work, time and effort... I'm not a pretend best supporter, I'm a true supporter, always have been, do I ignore odd programming choices, no but there's a way to talk about it without trying to put the person down. That does not make me pretend, it makes me polite and have good manners. Try it, you may even like it.. 16 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Mclaneinc said: You really need to re-read what you have just written to see how negative it is... What we have here are people working in their own time at zero pay or little pay writing stuff to pass on to us the non authors as a work of love and time so if I say its great its because I mean it, could I do the same, NO.. There's also a fine line between constructive criticism and rudeness, the choice of "some effort is great and incredible , some is less spectacular" is one such comment...Starts out ok but ends with a deliberate downer, a chosen word that just says defeat. Its not needed, there are a lot of ways to say you didn't think it was as good IN YOUR OPINION but you chose a word to inflict a sense of failure in a strong way yet was it a failure, in your eye's yes but others do not share that opinion. I love our devs, they work for free or little money in return, they do stuff I cannot do and so I like to thank them, I'm not here to hold their hand and tell them they are mega stars and if I see something I think is an odd choice I say but I always respect their work, time and effort... I'm not a pretend best supporter, I'm a true supporter, always have been, do I ignore odd programming choices, no but there's a way to talk about it without trying to put the person down. That does not make me pretend, it makes me polite and have good manners. Try it, you may even like it.. Beautiful and true words, as always. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STE'86 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 here's my take on the intro from a graphic designer and "dev" perspective... to discard Avril Harrison's image would be a mistake. It's not just a bog standard loading screen, its part of the classic front end cinematic title of the game itself. It sets the scene and the feel for game using the games colours. To ignore this is to lose something of what it "is" to be a PoP game. Its what differentiates the game from something like a standard Ocean bitmap loading screen intro. oh and the steel jaw question on the other thread...option 6 without a doubt. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 I know original opening by heart, so I'm open for something new :] 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Eyvind Bernhardsen Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 1 hour ago, STE'86 said: to discard Avril Harrison's image would be a mistake. It's not just a bog standard loading screen, its part of the classic front end cinematic title of the game itself. It sets the scene and the feel for game using the games colours. To ignore this is to lose something of what it "is" to be a PoP game. Its what differentiates the game from something like a standard Ocean bitmap loading screen intro. This isn’t a “real” Prince of Persia game though, Jordan Mechner never bothered to make that for the Atari. Avril Harrison never made a title screen for the Atari either, so nothing has been discarded. This game is an homage, based on another homage. Everybody is entitled to their opinion about how it should play and what it should look and sound like, but the only opinions that matter are those of the people making it. Trying to influence them to see your point of view by bluntly asserting that theirs is wrong is ungrateful, rude, and unlikely to work. If you feel that this won’t be a worthy homage to Prince of Persia, your recourse is to write your own. Nobody owes you the realisation of your vision. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+slx Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 11 hours ago, Jacques said: @Mclaneinc @slx I'll wait for this anyway great port in quiet, now, I got the idea from the authors, that no more opinions on fixed way is appreciated, don't worry That's not what I hinted at, but there are different ways to word opinions and recommendations and in a forum that is visited by people from various countries around the world, some of which are not native speakers (writers?) of the main language here (neither am I), it is very easy to miss the tone and come across rude. Anyone not content with the results is usually free to add or change whatever he/she likes or dislikes and I am sure any improvements will be generally lauded by the community. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STE'86 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 18 minutes ago, Eyvind Bernhardsen said: This isn’t a “real” Prince of Persia game though, Jordan Mechner never bothered to make that for the Atari. Avril Harrison never made a title screen for the Atari either, so nothing has been discarded. This game is an homage, based on another homage. Everybody is entitled to their opinion about how it should play and what it should look and sound like, but the only opinions that matter are those of the people making it. Trying to influence them to see your point of view by bluntly asserting that theirs is wrong is ungrateful, rude, and unlikely to work. If you feel that this won’t be a worthy homage to Prince of Persia, your recourse is to write your own. Nobody owes you the realisation of your vision. er actually I have been there and done that already 9 years ago 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayhem Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 For those who don’t know, STE worked on the C64 port of PoP, so yeah, he has been there. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, STE'86 said: here's my take on the intro from a graphic designer and "dev" perspective... to discard Avril Harrison's image would be a mistake. It's not just a bog standard loading screen, its part of the classic front end cinematic title of the game itself. It sets the scene and the feel for game using the games colours. To ignore this is to lose something of what it "is" to be a PoP game. Its what differentiates the game from something like a standard Ocean bitmap loading screen intro. oh and the steel jaw question on the other thread...option 6 without a doubt. It sets the scene for a game of tetris perhaps... That picture is not connected to anything, it's generic artwork. The sequel (PoP2 not "Sands of Time") doesn't have anything like it (while the in game graphics are much more oriental themed) Edited June 8, 2020 by rensoup 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STE'86 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) How do you work out that a screen showing a middle eastern arabian palace in a desert with arabic style filigree, arches and decoration, over which titles are displayed in a cinematic style, doesnt set the scene for PoP? which is a cinematic game, entirely based inside...an arabian palace. your logic escapes me... Edited June 8, 2020 by STE'86 typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Eyvind Bernhardsen Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 7 hours ago, STE'86 said: er actually I have been there and done that already 9 years ago So why don’t you just play that version instead of this one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 7 hours ago, STE'86 said: which is a cinematic game, entirely based inside...an arabian palace. your logic escapes me... By your logic, the Tetris pic sets the mood for a cinematic game happening entirely inside an orthodox church ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Nah... guys... do we really get into that discussion about the title screen?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Robot Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 It's disappointing to see that the peanut gallery hasn't learned anything from Stunt Car Racer. It amazes me that we have any homebrew developers of software or hardware left in this community when I see how they get treated by the very people they are giving these gifts to. If you don't like the intro (that you still haven't seen yet) in this game, feel free to take the final of it and hack it to replace the intro with one you think it should have. If you don't treat the authors of this release like dirt you might even get a source code release to make your hacking efforts easier. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STE'86 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 I am treating nobody like dirt. I am expressing a professional artistic opinion and defending it against numpties like you. I have every right to disagree with an artistic choice AND to say why i think it's wrong. personally, It doesnt matter to me if the coder finishes this or not. All I care about is that if it does get finished it is the most accurate version of PoP able to be done on this format. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, STE'86 said: ...professional... ...numpties... Those two words don't really fit into one sentence. Do they? 22 minutes ago, STE'86 said: All I care about... Why do you care at all? Edited June 8, 2020 by Irgendwer 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madi Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 9 hours ago, STE'86 said: How do you work out that a screen showing a middle eastern arabian palace in a desert with arabic style filigree, arches and decoration, over which titles are displayed in a cinematic style, doesnt set the scene for PoP? which is a cinematic game, entirely based inside...an arabian palace. your logic escapes me... To clarify it, the picture has nothing to do with Arabian architecture or building style any where in Arabian peninsula . Have never seen such buildings in any Arabian land (desserts or forests). This is more of Indian style and to some extent a Persian (northen east). I believe it is an American type of story made by American cinematic world.? madi 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 22 minutes ago, STE'86 said: All I care about is that if it does get finished it is the most accurate version of PoP able to be done on this format. the most accurate? Atari is a more perfect construction. I thought the best of the best versions was being created, not a mapping of the version that had to deal with various compromises. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Robot Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 13 minutes ago, STE'86 said: I am expressing a professional artistic opinion and defending it against numpties like you. In this instance your opinion is worth as much as mine, f'all. I keep my professional artistic opinions to myself because I don't recall the dev's here ever asking me for them. The ad-hominim attack makes me realise your opinions on any subject are worthless. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STE'86 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 you post a "look at me" on a public forum mate, you get public opinion. its part of the deal. there is no other reason to post on a public forum a WIP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Robot Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 You post a WIP on a community forum to let the community know what you are working on, to build excitement, hopefully make a few people happy. If you want opinions you ask for opinions; like this... How many artists ever ask for critique of their art technique? None. Maybe they want to know if you like the finished art, but they rarely ask "am I doing this right". It's hubris to assume they need or want anyone's 'opinion' on their progress. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Who started an argument and didn't invite me??? Seriously folks, lets calm the hell down a bit, we all have the entitlement to an opinion, its the way the opinion is given that causes the issues. My take on this is that what the game is and how it turns out lays squarely at the teams choices, we can disagree with choices but you aint doing the coding bruv. We ALL want to see the best version of the game but its a version and it will be what it will be...From what I've seen so far I think its blooming marvelous, lets just be happy that people bother to dev for us. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starfighter Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) I rarely ever post at forums, but this effort really got my attention! What I have seen so far, this is going to be one of the best Prince of Persia versions available. I am really looking forward to playing the final version on a real machine. Kudos to the ppl who are responsible for this great port! It would also be fantastic if the source code code could be released, hopefully with documentation :), so ppl can learn from it and create their own versions or additional levels, etc...like they were doing for bruce lee and montezuma's revenge... This kind of creativity compared with nostalgia always reminds me why retro computing is such a great hobby and fun. Edited June 8, 2020 by starfighter 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Good post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwilbar Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 I haven't followed this post for post..... but just a few $0.02.... I'm looking forward to this. But lets keep in mind that this is all done by volunteers.... with their time, and their talent.... You didn't have any input on the commercial ports that that developed so many years ago (by people paid to port the game). Here the devs are showing us their work in progress.... and we get to comment. Lets be nice about those comments. The developers don't need to port the game, they can stop at any time. They are doing it for the love, the challenge, to make something that they probably feel should have been made years ago.... but if we can't be nice to them, then that takes something away from what they ARE getting out of doing this. I feel anything you take away from their motivations for doing it is harmful. Not to mention the number of people viewing this experience that might have had in mind to work on a port and discuss/develop it in a community setting may just think twice. I'm not naming any names.... I did not read this post for post. But I do see that it has taken an unfortunate turn of posturing, defensiveness, and more. I don't think this was the intention of the devs. To the devs, I support you and your efforts in silence. If I had an idea or opinion that I thought would be helpful, I would post it or PM you. I don't mind if you do something in your port I would disagree with... I had no input on the original ports either. I consume artists work and have opinions.... but I either like it, play it, and enjoy it; or I don't. Thank you, good luck with completing your release. I very much look forward to it ! 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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