zeropolis79 Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 Thanks, I'm not fussed over speeds (I am used to C64 loading times, but my main 8-bit love is the Amstrad (which had a great port of this)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 (edited) These days we take pleasure from loading anyway (especially using real disk drive), don't worry Edited February 15, 2021 by Jacques 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted February 15, 2021 Author Share Posted February 15, 2021 My bad, Xbios speed is fine... Did a quick compare with a bunch of ATRs and all speed patches disabled in Altirra and it's the same (I even attempted a quick optimization test of the Xbios load function and got 0 benefit). ? Seems like I had forgotten how slow the 1050 was! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 hour ago, rensoup said: My bad, Xbios speed is fine... Did a quick compare with a bunch of ATRs and all speed patches disabled in Altirra and it's the same (I even attempted a quick optimization test of the Xbios load function and got 0 benefit). ? Seems like I had forgotten how slow the 1050 was! Slow yes. Please tell me, when these speeds were common all the way back in 2010, the OS allowed for higher speeds all the way back in 1979, and now in 2021 we have 90kB/sec HDD loaders, why single speed SIO seems a good idea? I know we can drop all the way back to 600 baud loading of CAS files, but seriously, why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 to get the effect you showed, you need to modify the computer to replace the OS ROM, in many motherboards you should also change or remove capacitors or resistors at the SIO socket and you should have a PC or other SIO device emulator connected... while in 2021 it is enough to save this file on cartridge and the transmission will be even faster ? you can make your life difficult like you, but why ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+skr Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 6 hours ago, xxl said: to get the effect you showed, you need to modify the computer to replace the OS ROM, in many motherboards you should also change or remove capacitors or resistors at the SIO socket and you should have a PC or other SIO device emulator connected... while in 2021 it is enough to save this file on cartridge and the transmission will be even faster ? you can make your life difficult like you, but why ? I´m used to have a Speedy 1050 since it´s available. No modification made on the Atari side it formats and writes a ED disk in 25 seconds. Copying about 600 disks all three months I should seriously check how I can speed up the process even more. But as for simply using software, it´s totally fine to me to have standard speeds, that´s part of the fun. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 24 minutes ago, skr said: I´m used to have a Speedy 1050 since it´s available. No modification made on the Atari side does your Speedy work with POKEY 0x00 (that's what we're talking about look at video)? I do not think so ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 13 hours ago, xxl said: to get the effect you showed, you need to modify the computer to replace the OS ROM, in many motherboards you should also change or remove capacitors or resistors at the SIO socket and you should have a PC or other SIO device emulator connected... while in 2021 it is enough to save this file on cartridge and the transmission will be even faster ? you can make your life difficult like you, but why ? No OS replacement (as in physical removal or opening the machine) is required. That's why we have PBI handlers. This was standard from Atari since 1984. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Stephen said: No OS replacement (as in physical removal or opening the machine) is required. That's why we have PBI handlers. This was standard from Atari since 1984. so the driver loaded into the computer - nice - just remind me which drive allows you to use this speed and what about these capacitors? PBI handlers not for devices connected to the parallel connector? In the movie you show the device connected to the serial connector, besides you show APE Warp OS, this is not OS ROM replacement? could you tell me how i could use it on my Atari 65xe, i would like to check. it will not be as fast as loading from the cartridge but I want to taste it Edited February 16, 2021 by xxl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) you can use pbi to transparently modify whatever needs to be and it need not be a pbi device in and of itself, it modifies stuff inserted in parallel to what is already there in a sense as the keyhole can run things larger than the available space appears to the machines. If it did not do that, it might have been labeled simply as Buss interface. As noted in the first adverts all of the RAM, Personality etc, was meant to be replaceable, with the caveat it used the architecture of the core machine and it's chips and followed the outlined rules as the machines expanded. The PBI specification fall under that umbrella The capacitors weren't on all machines and sometimes having them present didn't kill sio speed depending on the machine. @lotharek 's sio splitter is buffered and seems to get divisor zero with 99.9 percent of Atari's with or without the caps... NTSC or PAL... does your PAL machine have the caps? if so... weird. There were earlier offering of sio splitters, some with and some without SIO improvements, some blocking other device use at the same time others not. All of this was available as mentioned. Edited February 16, 2021 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said: @lotharek 's sio splitter is buffered and seems to get divisor zero with 99.9 percent of Atari's with or without the caps... NTSC or PAL... will i need it? you did not answer me. Please write me what I need for my computer to check what you showed in the videos and what you are talking about. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) As a PAL user you wouldn't normally need it, an NTSC *may* need it... even though ICD and Atari service centers did remove the two caps for folks. The point is you don't even need to modify the Atari, you can use a SIO device that allows for the speed which you can still buy to this day, not unlike the powered USB hubs that were use on x86 machines that had speed and power issues for a comparison. Since you are a great coder you can verify this yourself though. The end user has more than one avenue to achieve this since 84 unless we are to use cassette and pre grass valley 810's in perpetuity... though we used 8 inch drives on the Atari as well, and paper tape... (one of the AA members here actually bought this from someone I know) I don't want to go back to paper tape. It is admirable you want things to work for all Atari's in all configurations, and that can still be if a loader reverts from zero divisor to divisor 6 and then reverts to base divisor after that... Edited February 16, 2021 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said: As a PAL user you wouldn't normally need it, an NTSC *may* need it... even though ICD and Atari service centers did remove the two caps for folks. The point is you don't even need to modify the Atari, you can use a SIO device that allows for the speed which you can still buy to this day, not unlike the powered USB hubs that were use on x86 machines that had speed and power issues for a comparison. please tell me how to do this. what program to use what should I do, I have an Atari, I have floppy drives what else do I need, I want to check if what you say works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) read the whole of the post... again please.. keep it in context. If you are worried about it, provide fallback. Edited February 16, 2021 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said: read the whole of the post... again please.. keep it in context. If you are worried about it, provide fallback. you probably have good reasons why you do not want the information you present to be verified Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 ??? anybody can verify it... that's why people don't understand your objection... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 21 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said: ??? anybody can verify it... that's why people don't understand your objection... I want to reverify and not rely on advertising material or third party reports. once again, please give me the names of the programs that I need to use and how to do it, so that I can perform the test on my computer as shown in the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) well it looks like it shows you copy 2000 in the video from MoparStephen... can we assume you are seeing the same pictures and videos people have been posting across the decades? I see pclink, copy programs, demos, everyday use videos all littered through out the AA forums showing the higher speed usage and devices.. It comes down to what you own for a drive/device or not... @xxl, you make great stuff... and it's possible to eak out just a bit more if such other wonders are supported, so long as it doesn't break completely for the end user. Edited February 16, 2021 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 I used Copy 2000 of course and APE USB device. It is known that the 1050 drive will not do divisor 0. However all the way back in 1987 when I installed a US doubler in my drive, my STOCK OS would do almost 3kB/sec. So - while I don't expect anyone with an actual floppy drive to read or write at divisor 0, you are not showing Prince of Persia loading from a floppy disc. You are loading fro a file hosted on the PC. So - load it with at least a pokey divisor of 8. This begs the question - why will you not answer a simple question? Why does XBIOS only support single speed SIO loads when software has supported higher speed loading for nearly 40 years now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) don't forget the indus, other buffering drives as well as the critical connection s-100 to atari and similar devices. Edited February 16, 2021 by _The Doctor__ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Stephen said: I used Copy 2000 of course and APE USB device. It is known that the 1050 drive will not do divisor 0. will not go on any SIO fdd ok. get it. I don't have APE USB ? can there be another device? I have SIO2SD enough? Copy 2000 is about to download. write me what to do next. I absolutely want to check it out. in the video (post 1041) I showed you loading from cart faster than POKEY 00, but if you absolutely need a lower speed, please, in this video, xBIOS loads data at 3 different speeds during one continuous transmission ? xB is just a tool ... I understand that you would prefer xBIOS to boot from the hard drive? please, here you have a video that: as I said xB is just a tool ... a powerful tool. --- I'm waiting for you to explain to me how to make POKEY 00 transmissions at home Edited February 16, 2021 by xxl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) I have the feeling that you are not on the same page, so to speak. @xxl an unmodified 800XL can reach divisor 0 if either the device has proper Schottky diodes in place (I have seen that working on a prototype of @mr-atari, even higher bitrates when Pokey is externally clocked), or if you run your device through @lotharek's SIO hub, which has similar signal clean-up in place. Edit: yes, SIO2SD should be able to reach divisor 0 with above mentioned solutions. Edited February 16, 2021 by ivop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 okay, I want to check it at home, not in laboratory conditions ? so. SIO2SD and COPY2000 enough for the test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivop Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 minute ago, xxl said: okay, I want to check it at home, not in laboratory conditions ? so. SIO2SD and COPY2000 enough for the test? I would think so, plus a lotharek SIO hub for massaging the signal That should work with unmodified XLs, and possibly XEs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, ivop said: I would think so, plus a lotharek SIO hub for massaging the signal That should work with unmodified XLs, and possibly XEs. without this additional device it is impossible? and some era replacement? supposedly it worked in 1984. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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