rensoup Posted June 17, 2021 Author Share Posted June 17, 2021 Alright, that beautiful hack wasn't going to work so I optimized the dancer, down to 5 scanlines. Hopefully that should improve disk loading retries ? And maybe as a knock effect, improve stability ? I've also tweaked the init code further. Now if you see the mouse, it means the boot loader completed loading the main exe, decompressed it and started executing. Please test and let me know (mention your config as well) pop_fastdancer_210617.zip 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmp Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) this version (ATR) seems to be loading without retries (PAL 800XL, AVGCART w/ SIO cable) Edited June 17, 2021 by tmp 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, xxl said: he tried to run the DD version on SIDE3 - SIDE3 has full ATR emulation on ads only. Geez, acting like a kid is really your best asset isn't it ? Neither Lotharek's nor FJC's websites claim full ATR emulation. Here are 2 screenshots.....first is from Lotharek, 2nd from FJC. Maybe it's your limited mastering of English, but maybe look up in a English to Polish dictionary what the word "LIMITED" means. Also, hopefully, the exclamation mark means the same in Polish as it does in English.... While you're at it, look up the word "SOME" as well.... Neither LIMITED nor SOME have the same meaning as the word "FULL"....... Edited June 17, 2021 by Level42 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, xxl said: this device does not have full ATR emulation, use the version dedicated to your device, eg Atarimax. Yes, so you can omit XBIOS and forget all about it's features. Edited June 17, 2021 by Level42 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) To return on topic (already regretting letting myself getting dragged into this shit, but there's a limit to what I can accept and hold my tongue): Already posted in the U1MB 4.0 firmware thread but some may not read that: I flashed the new Side3 loader and all cartridge versions of PoP I throw at it now load absolutely fine in both NTSC and PAL ANTIC setting of AntiX. To be complete this is my system: Atari 600XL (PAL machine) PAL GTIA U1MB StereoPOKEY Sophia 1 RGB AntiX (makes it possible to switch between PAL and NTSC ANTICs) My display is a Bang & Olufsen MX8000 CRT TV using the beautiful RGB picture coming from Sophia 1 RGB through the SCART input. Glad I asked about this. It triggered Rensoup to release the cartridge versions (completely omitting the need for XBIOS) and FJC to make a small fix to Side3 loader. it works: I’m happy I'd also like to thank Rensoup and all the others for their amazing work and time in this project. It makes the A8 shine.... here’s a picture of it in PAL ANTIC setting: and here in NTSC: As expected there are some color differences and of course the NTSC plays much more fluent. Really wouldn't bother with PAL when playing, just MHO. Edited June 17, 2021 by Level42 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 4 hours ago, Level42 said: As expected there are some color differences and of course the NTSC plays much more fluent. Looking pretty good there!! On NTSC, color rendition comes a bit different, also nocturnal but a bit moodier, due to the purples (looks like you are rendering NTSC with PAL color-map, maybe)... I would also agree that the game lends itself for NTSC's higher refresh-rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) I actually think the PAL image looks better, it's somewhat clearer. Under the NTSC image I can see what looks like individual scan lines or pixelation that aren't as visible in the PAL version. Interesting comparison. Edited June 17, 2021 by Mazzspeed 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 On 6/13/2021 at 6:00 PM, Faicuai said: I am simply failing to reproduce any of the problems reported here with these cart images. I will later, however, test on my 800XLs / U1MB setups, with same carts. Well, in spite of all my dearest efforts, I am afraid to report that... I could NOT make it fail on my U1MB 800XL, either! ? It turns out that the originally posted .CAR images also work like a charm on the 800 XL, just as well as they did on my 800 / Incognito (that is, with AVG and ULTIMATE/SD carts!). FYI, both of these setups still with 3.10 firmware in NTSC, though. The only thing I was not able to put to work is booting the Double-Density .ATR from my Nuxx-SDrive or RespeQt, but that one boots perfectly from the Indus/GT. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 5 hours ago, Faicuai said: Looking pretty good there!! On NTSC, color rendition comes a bit different, also nocturnal but a bit moodier, due to the purples (looks like you are rendering NTSC with PAL color-map, maybe)... I would also agree that the game lends itself for NTSC's higher refresh-rate. Thanks. Sophia RGB and a SCART Bang & Olufsen CRT is candy to the eyes IMHO and I will _NEVER_ use a LCD or whatever (unless I run out of my carefully stocked supply of Bang & Olufsen MX TVs ) The animation is simply more fluent on NTSC because it's faster. I play almost all games with NTSC ANTIC. I love the extra speed, correct colors (for the old games) and 60Hz. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 4 hours ago, Mazzspeed said: I actually think the PAL image looks better, it's somewhat clearer. Under the NTSC image I can see what looks like individual scan lines or pixelation that aren't as visible in the PAL version. Interesting comparison. Remember this is just a still. When the game actually runs you (naturally) notice the difference between 50 and 60Hz but also the slower animation. It feels "sticky" once you played in NTSC. There is probably less individual scan lines on PAL because the picture always becomes "compressed" vertically because of more lines on PAL (625 vs. 525 on NTSC). I always prefer the "taller" picture. The scan lines belong there....this is CRT goodness The colors in NTSC are a bit different of course. The princess's hair is brown instead of red on PAL. Not on the picture is our hero, who's skin color is pretty yellow on NTSC. However, I don't mind those little colour differences and take the other advantages of NTSC any time. Whatever system: I love the artwork. The dungeon screens look so brilliant, not a single other version comes close IMHO. Awesome work by the guys working on this ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 25 minutes ago, Level42 said: Sophia RGB and a SCART Bang & Olufsen CRT is candy to the eyes IMHO What´s interesting about A8 PoP port is that, as far as I have seen, it has been developed (primarily) on a LCD-based environment (Rensoup is welcome to correct me, anytime). The screen-play is like Karateka, where the background-artwork remains mostly still, and the characters are the ones movimg. In the case of PoP, the artwork is spatially more extensive, thus benefitting from a flat field-of-view and a high contrast (white-to-black ratio). NTSC would be the cherry on the cake, not just for fluency of screenplay, but also for the flicker-effect on intro. Having said all that, can't complain with any of your renderings. Your B&O CRT is definitely a solid performer, with GREAT contrast and decent linearity, which are key for PoP. Among the best I have seen on this forum, for sure. Enjoy! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, Faicuai said: Having said all that, can't complain with any of your renderings. Your B&O CRT is definitely a solid performer, with GREAT contrast and decent linearity, which are key for PoP. Among the best I have seen on this forum, for sure. the MX8000 is the best of the B&O line of 4:3 TVs and the last generation they built. The picture has noticeably more brightness and contrast than the MX7000s that I also have, and those aren’t half-bad either. Only Sony PVMs and such can match and probably surpass this picture quality but those cost a fortune (where I picked up B&Os for anything between nothing and 25 euros), they usually have much smaller tubes and let’s not mention sound. Because that’s another thing where the B&Os excel....the sound is simply amazing with such a full bass. As said, I’ll never use any flatscreen TV or monitor unless all my CRTs die before I do 7 minutes ago, Faicuai said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjlazer Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Just tested the SS ATR version on a 1200XL w/256k RAMBO with Happy 1050 and it locks up at the dancing lady. Tried the same disk on a 130XE with XF551 and it worked. I need to figure out how to copy the DD ATR to a disk. I assume I would need a Happy Drive or XF551 to load this right? Using Atari ALibPc to write disks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elkino Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 18 hours ago, rensoup said: New test version... UNPLAYABLE (3 versions Amax Megac DDATR) -fixes the Atarimax issues that @Mq. mentioned. -has my beautiful hack to take out the dancing girl anim out of the VBi -slightly more robust boot process (reset stack ptr just in case, write to NMIRES) the hack involves changing the RTI return address in the VBi, to redirect it to the animation code which then returns to the original RTI return address. I like this hack, it's almost like multitasking ?. Now I don't have a clue how well it works outside Altirra of course! Let me know how it goes... pop_bhack_2106017.zip 436.9 kB · 11 downloads Edit: I just realized that the hack may not actually do much since it's still going to block disk access polling... damn.... This atarimax car load and shows presentation demo. No playable. Works for me on : - NTSC 600XL expanded with 1MB and SIDE3 cart. - NTSC 130XE with 320k rambo and SIDE3 cart. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted June 17, 2021 Author Share Posted June 17, 2021 13 hours ago, Level42 said: Glad I asked about this. It triggered Rensoup to release the cartridge versions (completely omitting the need for XBIOS) and FJC to make a small fix to Side3 loader. Well not strictly true ? I'd started working on the carts a while back... It involved coding at tool to merge all the files in a valid cart format with a simple directory structure and more importantly and block copy function to copy data from ROM to RAM... That function turned out to be a gigantic pain in the butt with a bunch of nasty corner cases! Had I know how much work was involved I may have been more hesitant to do it... Ignorance is bliss! 13 hours ago, Level42 said: it works: I’m happy I'd also like to thank Rensoup and all the others for their amazing work and time in this project. It makes the A8 shine.... Thanks, that was the goal! The game is being ported in a way I wish had been possible back then... Now whenever people complain that the A8 is not a capable machine, you've got one more bullet for them ? 7 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Tested the pop_fastdancer on a real 800XL (same as before, PAL, 512k SRAM by tf_hh) and a 1050 (same as before, with Speedy upgrade) and it worked fine, no pauses, no retries - it just loaded! The older version did take 3 minutes to change from girl dancer to mouse animation, the latest one takes approx. 40 seconds and after one minute the first (black/white) title/textscreen appears. Made another boring WAV recording with the fast girl dancer and mouse animation for you... POP_DD_Fast.zip 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Hmmm... I wonder why, but "esc" doesn't work in the latest release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted June 17, 2021 Author Share Posted June 17, 2021 8 hours ago, Faicuai said: I would also agree that the game lends itself for NTSC's higher refresh-rate. 3 hours ago, Level42 said: Remember this is just a still. When the game actually runs you (naturally) notice the difference between 50 and 60Hz but also the slower animation. It feels "sticky" once you played in NTSC. debatable! You can select the minimum redraw speed in the option menu... the previous version were set to 3 for PAL and 4 for NTSC, if I remember correctly. That means the game will wait at least 3/4 frames before redrawing the next one. Which rarely happened (only in very bare rooms) 50/3 = 16.9fps 60/4 = 15fps For this release I made some changes to stabilize NTSC and somehow the game got faster ? and suddenly the PAL version was running in 3 frames a bit too often which made the game a little too speedy. So I changed it to 4. 50/4 = 12.5fps 60/4 = 15fps The game can now feel a little faster in NTSC but I encourage you to set the frame limiter to 2 and you'll see the game can be too fast in both PAL/NTSC 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted June 17, 2021 Author Share Posted June 17, 2021 14 minutes ago, emkay said: Hmmm... I wonder why, but "esc" doesn't work in the latest release. unplayable as in "all input disabled" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 1 minute ago, rensoup said: unplayable as in "all input disabled" ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted June 17, 2021 Author Share Posted June 17, 2021 15 hours ago, tmp said: this version (ATR) seems to be loading without retries (PAL 800XL, AVGCART w/ SIO cable) 26 minutes ago, CharlieChaplin said: The older version did take 3 minutes to change from girl dancer to mouse animation, the latest one takes approx. 40 seconds and after one minute the first (black/white) title/textscreen appears. Great news! And thanks to XXL for the tip 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted June 17, 2021 Author Share Posted June 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, emkay said: ok There's going to be a bugfix release ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, rensoup said: The game can now feel a little faster in NTSC but I encourage you to set the frame limiter to 2 and you'll see the game can be too fast in both PAL/NTSC Aha!!! I will definitely try it! THANKS for the extra clarity, here! I do wonder how this all work once dual NTSC / PAL support finally arrives for the A8... I think PoP will be the reference title for testing. Cheers! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted June 17, 2021 Author Share Posted June 17, 2021 3 hours ago, tjlazer said: Just tested the SS ATR version on a 1200XL w/256k RAMBO with Happy 1050 and it locks up at the dancing lady. Tried the same disk on a 130XE with XF551 and it worked. Not sure if you have to disable Happy and be in some kind compatibility mode ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 I have already shared the youtube video to some PoP groups on Facebook. Someone now needs to update the Wikipedia. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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