Unicorns season: Prince of Persia for the A8!

[+Stephen]

5 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

Whether the emulator is precise or not is not the point. The point is that it if it assumed to be precise and the importance of real hardware testing is not appreciated, you end up... well, here.

To be fair.  This is why we are testing.  This is a beta release, noted as such.  We should not be getting angry that there are bugs now.  Nobody paid Video 61 for a shitty cart with a crappy label and got a buggy game.  Testing is about finding and fixing bugs, which is happening here.

 

Comment not directed at fjc - just quoted the first post I saw about testing!

[flashjazzcat]

Just now, Stephen said:

To be fair.  This is why we are testing.  This is a beta release, noted as such.  We should not be getting angry that there are bugs now.  Nobody paid Video 61 for a shitty cart with a crappy label and got a buggy game.  Testing is about finding and fixing bugs, which is happening here.

Indeed, but let's be honest about that. 'Exotic hardware' which creates issues too often means 'not emulation'.

[Mazzspeed]

Just now, Stephen said:

To be fair.  This is why we are testing.  This is a beta release, noted as such.  We should not be getting angry that there are bugs now.  Nobody paid Video 61 for a shitty cart with a crappy label and got a buggy game.  Testing is about finding and fixing bugs, which is happening here.

I think the big problem is the fact that the use of a certain DOS replacement works really well, on hardware owned by it's author. Once you factor production timing tolerances, as well as the possibility of increased timing issues due to age...Well...As FJC stated...

 

You end up here.

[+Stephen]

Just now, Mazzspeed said:

I think the big problem is the fact that the use of a certain DOS replacement works really well, on hardware owned by it's author. Once you factor production timing tolerances, as well as the possibility of increased timing issues due to age...Well...As FJC stated...

 

You end up here.

Yeah - I would give anything at my job, to tell the other users "Tough shit - it works on my machine, you idiots need to get working hardware" any time a bug is reported.  Would make my life a lot easier.

[Mazzspeed]

Just now, Stephen said:

Yeah - I would give anything at my job, to tell the other users "Tough shit - it works on my machine, you idiots need to get working hardware" any time a bug is reported.  Would make my life a lot easier.

Not to mention the ability to mock them while they're trying to resolve a plethora of issues with no repercussions.

[Faicuai]

16 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said:

I think the big problem is the fact that the use of a certain DOS replacement works really well, on hardware owned by it's author.

Judging by how well it worked (since the pre bugs-fix release) on my 800/Incognito, 800XLs and Indus/GT, I would say the above is a false statement.

 

[Mazzspeed]

5 minutes ago, Faicuai said:

Judging by how well it worked (since the pre bugs-fix release) on my 800/Incognito, 800XLs and Indus/GT, I would say the above is a false statement.

 

Of course you would.

[xxl]

Well, whether to indulge in mediocrity, equipment whose parameters do not meet the standard should be taken into account? it's like you have broken brakes in your car and you want a technical inspection certificate. Another thing is that there are extensions on the market that have flaws and nobody wants to fix it anyway: D

[Mazzspeed]

Just now, xxl said:

Well, whether to indulge in mediocrity, equipment whose parameters do not meet the standard should be taken into account? it's like you have broken brakes in your car and you want a technical inspection certificate. Another thing is that there are extensions on the market that have flaws and nobody wants to fix it anyway: D

With that standard being your own machine. Nice.

[xxl]

3 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said:

With that standard being your own machine. Nice.

not for the first time you got confused ? and not the last one ? your standard

Edited June 25, 2021 by xxl

[rensoup]

3 hours ago, MEtalGuy66 said:

Noone insulted anyone. 

 

 

[Mazzspeed]

1 hour ago, xxl said:

not for the first time you got confused ? and not the last one ? your standard

Another back against the wall insult, lovely. How about next time you come up with a rebuttal that doesn't involve baseless insults?

[Faicuai]

17 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said:

Another back against the wall insult,

...The victim-card does not suit you well (especially after literally calling BE's owner an "idiot", in writing). 

 

I know it is a little too early for your plushy bear and warm cookies... but consider a short break, and some fresh air.

 

It will do you well, trust me.

 

Back to PoP goodness!

[Mazzspeed]

4 minutes ago, Faicuai said:

...The victim-card does not suit you well (especially after literally calling BE's owner an "idiot", in writing). 

 

I know it is a little too early for your plushy bear and warm cookies... but consider a short break, and some fresh air.

 

It will do you well, trust me.

 

Back to PoP goodness!

Not interested in pretty much most of what you say. Let's not bring comments from another thread into this one.

[rensoup]

I don't own real hardware. Apparently for all the work I'm doing, I'm supposed to be buying all the WIP extensions and Atari clones that have poped up for the past few decades ? You think I'm Microsoft ?

 

Posted November 26, 2019:

Quote

-The target is a stock Atari 130XE (128KB of RAM) on a single 128KB floppy.

 

Again, my target is stock HW and developing with Altirra is fine for that. There's no bug it hasn't caught so far. The only crashing bug I had to fix with this release is unitialized memory which was used as a display list. This would still have worked on just about every stock XL-XE machine, except some 1200XL configs.

The other issue was the dancer anim being too slow, which again would have worked on stock machines.

 

Other issues were: a bug in the Side3 .car support which prevented all 3 .car formats to run on it, user settings (XEGS jumper, SIO speed higher than 1x, badly formatted memory card,... ) which were all blamed on XBIOS.

 

There's no proof so far that there is a problem with XBIOS, could be that there is, could be my code, could be your HW driver. It's a little too easy to pass the buck when your HW isn't 100% compatible with all existing A8 software.

The only addon that seems to be 100% compatible would be the AVG ? Now if PoP didn't work with it, I'd be worried...

 

If it works with your specific HW, consider that a bonus. I'm willing to try fixing issues if I can get some debug info too.

[Mazzspeed]

46 minutes ago, rensoup said:

Other issues were: a bug in the Side3 .car support which prevented all 3 .car formats to run on it, user settings (XEGS jumper, SIO speed higher than 1x, badly formatted memory card,... ) which were all blamed on XBIOS.

With respect, CAR issues weren't blamed on xbios. Suspicion was raised due to certain replies by the author of xbios and it was asked if people should be reading more into certain childish comments as a result of the history of the author. Since then the author in question briefly changed their attitude to a more helpful one - Only to regress back to their unhelpful ways as a purist once more.

 

It was asked just why xbios cannot run at higher SIO speeds, seeing what I see now - It's obvious that's not going to happen.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Mazzspeed

[xxl]

level 1 ... passed

 

 

[Mq.]

This is a trick which works the same in other versions too, so I would keep it in Atari version as it is.

[flashjazzcat]

U1MB 600XL, everything except extended RAM disabled, stock XL/XE OS, DD ATR from first post, RespeQt with IO clamped to 1x SIO speed (hardware/software capable of running divisor 0 without errors 24/7):

 

This is just after attempting to read sector 363 three times. Got the Turbo Freezer on it, and it appears to be stuck in a loop (which appears to be part of an ISR) at $33C6:

 

 

Since #$36 EOR #$06 will never equal zero, I'm not sure how this loop is supposed to exit, but in any case, this is where it hung up. What's peculiar is that the issue is intermittent, and yet 'flaky IO' is not really an explanation which can be entertained. I also saw things progress beyond this point but black screen after the first title graphic, for reasons I have not established yet.

 

Don't know if this helps at all; hopefully it does. I can't replicate this problem in emulation.

 

EDIT: Also saw strange-looking gold-coloured crap streaming up the screen behind the mouse graphic on occasion.

Edited June 25, 2021 by flashjazzcat

[xxl]

2 hours ago, Mq. said:

This is a trick which works the same in other versions too, so I would keep it in Atari version as it is.

but that is not a complaint. it's very good that the mechanics of the game are 100% compatible with the original ?

[Nickolasgaspar]

This is how things are after a couple of  long days.

I loaded more than ~1000 program/games during a long test of my freshly  repaired and memory expanded 800xl ( by the one and only flashjazzcat ). This was part of the  feedback I wanted to send to flashjazzcat and tfhh.

 

I ended up with a list of  only 30 games/programs that did not load or run. I downloaded  and replaced those 30 files with different versions(I replaced some atrs with xexs) found at a couple of sites.

That reduced the number of  titles not running to just 2! (one game and the other a demogame).

 

1. PoP_DD_20210619_bugfix.atr / the 610   (the older versions load just fine).

2. Abyssus (an unfinished shoot'em up).

 

I also replaced the serial adapter  with a new one in one of my cables which resulted to:

a. All files now load without the need  of turning off  the extra memory or reducing the loading speed in RespeQt/AspeQt(android) for  ~20 "sensitive" file.(Maybe it was placebo and just retrying to load the file was enough!)

b. Rambrandt-Antic paint finally loads without issues or the need to load the instructions first!

C. I managed to load  PoP  5 times (1 corrupted) out of numerous attempts.(zero with the previous serial board).

 

So I think that the machine, the memory  expansion plus the cable appear to work excellent.

I don't know if an xex version of the game is possible just for testing.

 

P.S. Jon  I owe you a reply....now that I finished crash testing the Kruger board.

 

[Mclaneinc]

 

I've not read all 71 pages, but I presume the quest is to create a game that works on a basic machine with the possible exception of extra memory to cut down on load times and so forth, I know the author only has emulation and is passing around beta's to people with real hardware, so it's getting an overall test. I'm sure the bugs will be worked out with all these experts chipping in. I'm just happy its being worked on but do cringe a bit when I see arguments, sure we all have views but let's not let it get too heated.

 

Right, I'm orf, picking my daughter up from Uni, her first year complete...Home for a bit..And just in time for my birthday (soon)..

 

Looking forward to a nice fully working final of this game..Thank you to all contributing..

 

 

 

 

[xxl]

1 hour ago, flashjazzcat said:

Got the Turbo Freezer on it

remove this device and check again, the code looks like a trap for devices that can connect the memory to the DL area.

[flashjazzcat]

Just now, xxl said:

remove this device and check again, the code looks like a trap for devices that can connect the memory to the DL area.

If I remove Turbo Freezer, it hangs in the same way with the same symptoms. I only connected TF in the first place in order to offer some debugging information.

 

[xxl]

I have one more crazy idea - check if IRQ is enabled, if there is what appears in NMIST? I am 87% 88,5% convinced that this is a trap.

 

 

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Sure rensoup debug DLI?

 

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do such phenomena occur on computers that have standard RAM under ROM? not added, e.g. 600XL

 

 

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and I think we come to unpopular conclusions ... what memory expansion does this A600 XL have?

 

 

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if I am right I will have to change my panties

Edited June 25, 2021 by xxl