Level42 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 8 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said: What does it really matter? It's @rensoup's project; if this is what he chooses to do, that's up to him. That would rock. I'd spend an afternoon getting recording levels just right to see if I could get it to load from my 1010. Admittedly, I'd only do it once for the novelty value because tapes are slow, yo, but I'd have to give it at least one try. And not everyone can afford an AVG cart or SIDE3. Besides, if the game were to be released only in cartridge format, everyone who wanted a .ATR or .XEX of it would complain. There's no way to make 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. I cannot grasp that you feel a need to dictate how the game should be loaded to the person developing it. It's not your time or effort that is being put into the game, so why do you assume that you have a right to direct its creation? Also, as an end user, it's my decision as to how I spend my Atari budget, not yours. Badgering the developer for a cart-only release is pretty much a budget-linked middle finger to not just me but also other end users. It's not your place to dictate how, or on what, we spend our money. If this had been a cart-only release from the get-go, fine. But it hasn't been. Stop acting as though you're entitled to make decisions for the developer. That's an absolutely delightful statement on your behalf, given that you've been trying to move the focus over to your wants above what the game needs. Now, if you'll pardon me, I have a 1050 manual with which I need to spend some alone time in the bathroom. ? Seriously, you cannot spend 60 to 100 euros on a device for your hobby ? I feel for you my man, should we start a fund raiser ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 Just now, Level42 said: Seriously, you cannot spend 60 to 100 euros on a device for your hobby ? I feel for you my man, should we start a fund raiser ? Absolutely! Cash (or electronic fund transfers) are always gladly accepted on my end. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 I didn’t want to tell Rensoupp what to do, I’ve stated before that I’ll take whatever he throws out…. I just outed my amazement about it. It’s my opinion…. and that’s the last thing I’ll say about it here since I don’t want to pollute this thread any further….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam242 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 29 minutes ago, Level42 said: It is the year 2021.Wake up. By that logic, we shouldn't bother with any retro hardware, including the computers themselves. Sorry, this hobby is all about nostalgia and real disk drives are part of the experience. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, adam242 said: By that logic, we shouldn't bother with any retro hardware, including the computers themselves. Sorry, this hobby is all about nostalgia and real disk drives are part of the experience. Had something like the AVG Cart or SIDE3 been available in the day, I would have tossed floppies in a heartbeat. These days I can't even find reliable so called OEM new magnetic media that lasts longer than about two years. Most don't use floppies anymore as it's just not realistically viable to do so. Edited July 18, 2021 by Mazzspeed 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam242 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Mazzspeed said: Had something like the AVG Cart or SIDE3 been available in the day, I would have tossed floppies in a heartbeat. These days I can't even find reliable so called OEM new magnetic media that lasts longer than about two years. Most don't use floppies anymore as it's just not realistically viable to do so. I probably would've, too.. except it wasn't available back in the day. Disk drives are part of the retro experience. And don't get me started about CRT monitors. I love my Ultimate Cart that I use for checking out works-in-progress or to play games on my XEGS in the living room where I don't want the clutter of a disk drive on my coffee table. But the setup in the hobby room includes a 1050 and an Indus GT. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 (edited) 32 minutes ago, adam242 said: I probably would've, too.. except it wasn't available back in the day. Disk drives are part of the retro experience. And don't get me started about CRT monitors. I love my Ultimate Cart that I use for checking out works-in-progress or to play games on my XEGS in the living room where I don't want the clutter of a disk drive on my coffee table. But the setup in the hobby room includes a 1050 and an Indus GT. I don't class disk drives or magnetic media as part of the retro experience at all, the retro experience is using the retro device itself. By your reasoning, this modern port of PoP technically isn't the true retro experience as it didn't exist in the 80's on the A8 platform. The true retro experience doesn't mean we have to be stuck in the 80's, and magnetic media/devices aren't becoming more reliable as time goes on - Hence the reason such media is being archived for use on modern storage implementations. Edited July 18, 2021 by Mazzspeed 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 (edited) 48 minutes ago, adam242 said: Disk drives are part of the retro experience. @adam242 : none of the below is directed at you specifically. It's just a point that you happened to bring up that I wanted to address. Absolutely. And so were cassette drives, which generally led to upgrading to floppy drives once the slowness and lack of random access of tape became more than was worth putting up with. Floppy drives were great, too, until it was possible to speed them up and increase their storage capacity. Upgrades like the Happy and US Doubler showed that there could be improvements there, too, so people upgraded to those as well. Eventually, the upgraded floppy drives just weren't cutting it. Hard disks became the next upgrade step, and many folks went over to them for even more speed and space. Today, I get a good chunk of my 'retro experience' by way of a FujiNet. It's the next logical step from that hard disk I never had on my A8s, and I wouldn't trade it for any other form of back-in-the-day storage. We upgraded our machines and peripherals back then, and are fortunate enough to be able to keep doing so today with modern devices. That doesn't diminish the experience; it keeps it going, and it keeps going in the way that it was at the time. The retro experience and self-flagellation are two entirely different things, and when all of this was still current hardware, we did everything we could to reduce the pain of ownership. That's a part of the retro experience that is just as valuable as putting a disk in the drive and closing the door. Edited July 18, 2021 by x=usr(1536) 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 I'd love a pristine 1050 or IndusGT, the reality is that outside of the US it's a highly unlikely and most like expensive proposition. Hence part of the reason alternatives exist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 (edited) CAR was intended for commercial programs, Atari in response to the growing demand for a medium for free software added FDD so that every bedroom programmer could taste the sweetness of creating and preserving their own code. Today any program dedicated to the commercial market should avoid the FDD version. Atari wanted it that way. --- I still don't see impressions from testing the new 20% faster version.... looks like it's perfect. Edited July 18, 2021 by xxl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 (edited) CAR was intended to be a cheap, entry level solution for simplistic entry level 80's users due to the fact that FDD's at the time were very expensive. For the more advanced user, FDD's were always the intended solution, which is the reason latter home computers dumped cartridges entirely and left them to gaming consoles. Who's pulling the strings here Rensoup? Because someone's got quite a purest attitude with, ironically enough, a 130xe. Edited July 18, 2021 by Mazzspeed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 Anyway... Nowadays CAR is a better solution than game released on 4 floppies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, zbyti said: Anyway... Nowadays CAR is a better solution than game released on 4 floppies. Haven'tseen better loading times like banking in instant 4kb or 8kb... (Talking about XE gaming console carts til today's 1mbyte ones) Edited July 18, 2021 by Heaven/TQA 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 1 hour ago, zbyti said: Anyway... Nowadays CAR is a better solution than game released on 4 floppies. especially for those who are forced to buy either a frashcart or a device with which to open the cartridge image. consume anyway... 4 flopies = 1 atr 2 hours ago, xxl said: I still don't see impressions from testing the new 20% faster version.... looks like it's perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DjayBee Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 (edited) On 7/16/2021 at 1:15 AM, rensoup said: 20% improvement... not bad even though I hoped it'd be better. It also saved me 200 bytes because I was able to simplify the loading code. Here are my results measured on my 800XE PAL with U1MB and Happy 1050 or SDriveMax. Mouse = Switch from dancing princess to mouse, (C) = Copyright screen, Demo = Start of demo Version | Unhappy || Happy || SDrive | 1050 || 1050 || Max | Mouse | (C) | Demo || Mouse | (C) | Demo || Mouse | (C) | Demo ----------+-------+------+------++-------+------+------++-------+------+------ Jun, 27th | 0:36 | 1:12 | 2:22 || 0:33 | 1:08 | 2:19 || 0:29 | 0:56 | 1:59 | Jun, 27th | 0:33 | 1:07 | 2:12 || 0:30 | 1:05 | 2:10 || 0:27 | 0:54 | 1:51 optimized | by me | | Jul, 16th | 0:30 | 0:57 | 1:57 || 0:28 | 0:56 | 1:56 || 0:24 | 0:46 | 1:39 Unhappy 1050 = no track buffering, full rotational and track-stepping delays Happy 1050 = track buffering, only track-stepping delays SDrive Max = no delays I also tested the behaviour of my Syncalc testdisk for burst mode: Version | Burst | No burst ----------+-------+---------- Unhappy | 0:20 | 0:36 1050 | | Happy | 0:18 | 0:23 1050 | | SDriveMax | 0:16 | 0:21 Edited July 18, 2021 by DjayBee 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 (edited) 54 minutes ago, xxl said: especially for those who are forced to buy either a frashcart or a device with which to open the cartridge image. No one forced me to buy anything. Not my 600XL, not my U1MB and not my SIDE3. In fact I paid for the U1MB and SIDE3 in the hope that the hard working members of the community that developed them would be rewarded. The only forcing here is via the individuals with the purest attitude. One way or another, you're going to need something to open whatever image you believe is the purest delivery method possible. Unless you had hopes for a dedicated cart? Edited July 18, 2021 by Mazzspeed 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 I don't know where the idea that it's me came from? one of the viewers recorded an ATR on CAR using xBIOS for CAR ? but I can see that the mere image of my punishing hand sends shivers - as it does among women. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DjayBee Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 38 minutes ago, xxl said: I don't know where the idea that it's me came from? one of the viewers recorded an ATR on CAR using xBIOS for CAR ? but I can see that the mere image of my punishing hand sends shivers - as it does among women. I have no idea, what you are talking about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 10 minutes ago, DjayBee said: I have no idea, what you are talking about. It's simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 21 minutes ago, DjayBee said: I have no idea, what you are talking about. it was a response to a suggestion: 1 hour ago, Mazzspeed said: Unless you had hopes for a dedicated cart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youxia Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 57 minutes ago, xxl said: I can see that the mere image of my punishing hand sends shivers - as it does among women. Man, you must be really fun to be around IRL. This thread really is cursed. Perhaps a mod needs to come up armed with garlic and a bunch of silver bullets. 2 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 I lost what was going on in this thread a long time ago when the arguments started. Just trying to catch up, but what is left to do on this game @rensoup? It seems fine to me, though I haven't played it to completion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DjayBee Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, snicklin said: I lost what was going on in this thread a long time ago when the arguments started. Just trying to catch up, but what is left to do on this game @rensoup? It seems fine to me, though I haven't played it to completion. See this post and grab the last file from the very first post of this thread. Test it on hardware and give feedback. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 On 7/6/2021 at 1:08 PM, TIX said: Yeah screw AW.. for me arcade is king, A very entertaining game and challenging in regard to sprites and programming would be "Pirate Ship Higemaru": or "Son Son": or "City Connection": ...just to say. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 11 hours ago, DjayBee said: Here are my results measured on my 800XE PAL with U1MB and Happy 1050 or SDriveMax. Mouse = Switch from dancing princess to mouse, (C) = Copyright screen, Demo = Start of demo Thanks for that extensive test! So it looks like the nodir change works pretty nicely. I see your test for minimizing seeks helped as well. I guess I could do that too(although I only have half the seeks since there's no directory, so in theory I would get half the benefit, so probably about 3s ) The happy's track buffering made no difference... I guess it's not smart enough to cache the directory sectors. 11 hours ago, DjayBee said: I also tested the behaviour of my Syncalc testdisk for burst mode: Interesting! I checked the file (sc.xex) and it's 22000 byte long, so even in burst mode it's still about 1KB/s, same as XBIOS. The only thing that bugs me is how Copymate reaches 1.3KB/s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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