Heaven/TQA Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, MrFish said: Well, it's better than raw sewage. Maybe @rensoup can add a water skiing level. every modern plattformer needs a underground, underwater, desert and snow level ok. me needs to stop of going offtopic Edited August 11, 2021 by Heaven/TQA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted August 12, 2021 Author Share Posted August 12, 2021 19 hours ago, MrFish said: Well, it's better than raw sewage. Maybe @rensoup can add a water skiing level. Jokes aside, I'd consider your take on that picture if it had some form of mouse... I'd much prefer to have characters instead of just vista but the mouse is a compromise. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 (edited) Now that makes perfect sense, Having the characters in the scene... and avoiding complete bathroom tiles, some tile yes... a zillion no! just an accent is nice. The mouse is a must. Edited August 12, 2021 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said: The mouse is a must. In Mouse Trap or Alley Cat, yes ? In case of PoP it's just the detail in palace scenes, so it should stay being only a detail (if at all) on title-screen as well. In it's current form making it main character on title-screen turns it into some sort of grotesque ? Remember? PoP is Mona Lisa of classic games, not Mouse of Persia Edited August 12, 2021 by Jacques 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 This thread is real perpetuum mobile 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 14 hours ago, rensoup said: Jokes aside, I'd consider your take on that picture if it had some form of mouse... I'd much prefer to have characters instead of just vista but the mouse is a compromise. Based on running a quick and dirty conversion through RastaConverter, something along the lines of this is possible. I'd be doing the real conversion by hand in Graph2Font, though. Can you post a copy of TIX's mouse sprites? 7 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted August 12, 2021 Author Share Posted August 12, 2021 10 hours ago, Jacques said: In it's current form making it main character on title-screen turns it into some sort of grotesque ? Don't download it and go away 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted August 12, 2021 Author Share Posted August 12, 2021 5 hours ago, MrFish said: Can you post a copy of TIX's mouse sprites? Those are way too small, at about 8x4... Those Mac ones aren't too pretty either... 5 hours ago, MrFish said: Based on running a quick and dirty conversion through RastaConverter, something along the lines of this is possible. I'd be doing the real conversion by hand in Graph2Font, though. You'd have to use my piccolo tool. It doesn't support hires for the title but that could be done separately. Though I'd like to know how it would possible to make a BW title with a red background in hires (even with PMG reuse) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, rensoup said: Don't download it and go away Why do you have to act so rude? If you're entitled to call classic title-screen "terrible" and openly hate the "bathroom tiles", can't you really stand an opinion on your big mouse screen? It's nice, colourful gfx, but yes, as a title screen of "the PoP" it is a form of grotesque. The gameplay is obviously excellent both on the engine and gfx side. People say it gets toxic here, but it takes more than one side and sadly you don't help it either with answers like that, while my comment had nothing personal to it and I meant no offence. Peace. Edited August 12, 2021 by Jacques 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 1 hour ago, rensoup said: Those are way too small, at about 8x4... Those Mac ones aren't too pretty either... Here's a quick approximation of your mouse. 1 hour ago, rensoup said: You'd have to use my piccolo tool. Is there a way for your converter to maintain a black border on the left and right? I'm not too fond of the changing color bands. 1 hour ago, rensoup said: It doesn't support hires for the title but that could be done separately. Though I'd like to know how it would possible to make a BW title with a red background in hires (even with PMG reuse) If I ended up using hi-res, the logo would necessary end up being light red/pink, and there'd be no way to outline it in black; for which reason I'm leaning towards using 160 as shown so far. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zbyti Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Jacques said: Why do you have to act so rude? (...) People say it gets toxic here, but it takes more than one side and sadly you don't help it either with answers like that, while my comment had nothing personal to it and I meant no offence. Peace. Quote Return to sender Return to sender I gave a letter to the postman He put it his sack Bright early next morning He brought my letter back Return to sender, address unknown No such number, no such zone We had a quarrel, a lover's spat I write I'm sorry but my letter keeps coming back So then I dropped it in the mailbox And sent it special D Bright and early next morning It came right back to me Return to sender, address unknown No such person, no such zone This time I'm gonna take it myself and put it right in her hand And if it comes back the very next day then I'll understand Return to sender, address unknown No such number, no such zone Return to sender Return to sender Return to sender Return to sender... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted August 13, 2021 Author Share Posted August 13, 2021 3 hours ago, Jacques said: whining I already know you hate the mouse, you've been stuck in an infinite spam loop for over a year. No picture is worth wasting that much time on, yet you keep coming back like a spoiled child. This time, you're trying that new angle though: "You criticize but don't like being criticized" crap. You've been part of, or have started every dumb argument: Title pic, text screens, loading speed & XBIOS, Princess room,... So yeah I've already enjoyed a fair bit of your constructive criticism. I'm not going to quote every single of your spam because page 200 would be on the radar real quick but here's a snippet regarding the cart version not being a real cart version: On 6/15/2021 at 9:21 AM, Jacques said: Yes, there is cart version, although in this case the cart acts as a floppy disk (game still requires 128KB - no problem for me, though), the loadings are still there, wait-animations, too, although much shorter, of course. Sure the intro is suffering much less, almost not at all. Maybe these animations should be shut-off in case of cartridge, to not point out there's still some loading going on and for even better flow. Then you talk about rudeness just like you talked about stubbornness... Ignoring this project seems like the only way to break free from this loop. ByeBye, enjoy the Apple2 version! 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted August 13, 2021 Author Share Posted August 13, 2021 3 hours ago, MrFish said: Here's a quick approximation of your mouse. That'd be more appropriate (doesn't have to be a standing mouse, could be a running one or whatever would work) 3 hours ago, MrFish said: Is there a way for your converter to maintain a black border on the left and right? I'm not too fond of the changing color bands. Yes you have to lock the playfield color but it does restricts the possibilities, it's easy to play with though. 3 hours ago, MrFish said: If I ended up using hi-res, the logo would necessary end up being light red/pink, and there'd be no way to outline it in black; for which reason I'm leaning towards using 160 as shown so far. The hires version with the outline sure looked nice, I guess it's totally impossible even with PMG reuse ? it's possible to reposition 2 players per scanline for a total of 40+16 = 56 mid res pixels, so 112 hires pixels total. Perhaps some double width players ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 5 hours ago, rensoup said: Yes you have to lock the playfield color but it does restricts the possibilities, it's easy to play with though. I guess I'll have to try things out and see what can be done. What is the necessity of using your specific converter? 5 hours ago, rensoup said: The hires version with the outline sure looked nice, I guess it's totally impossible even with PMG reuse ? it's possible to reposition 2 players per scanline for a total of 40+16 = 56 mid res pixels, so 112 hires pixels total. Perhaps some double width players ? Yeah, it looked really nice; but then so did everything in that image, because it was all hi-res -- not to mention higher color count. I think the logo looks appropriate in the same resolution as the rest of the image. That doesn't mean it couldn't be enhanced, though. Some antialiasing could be added in order to give the illusion of more resolution. There are only 3 colors in the majority of the logo right now. So, there's room to toy with it. The prince logo is just too big to get PMG's involved and maintain any illusion that the whole thing is hi-res. Those types of tricks are reserved for smaller graphics. If you want to have a white, hi-res logo, the background has to be black/grey. I was probably going to do some tests with it anyway; but my instinct tells me it should remain 160 pixel mode. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, rensoup said: ByeBye, enjoy the Apple2 version! You mean the real version? The one that still looks good even today? Edited August 13, 2021 by Mazzspeed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) @Mazzspeed That's unnecessary. Atari XL/XE version will be both great and epic conversion in the world of 8-bits. And what @MrFish proposes looks great already and seems sensible compromise mouse-wise, I really appreciate it. Some previous statements I'm leaving without comment, there's rather a need to calm things down, than the opposite. Edited August 13, 2021 by Jacques 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted August 13, 2021 Author Share Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) 15 hours ago, MrFish said: What is the necessity of using your specific converter? I'd rather not start another argument... besides, the code to load the picture is already there. The converter tries to keep the most used colors for PF colors for each scanline, if you lock one of them, it will no be able to do that hence you will end up with a less optimal solution. edit: btw picture height is 216 lines Edited August 13, 2021 by rensoup 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted August 13, 2021 Author Share Posted August 13, 2021 14 hours ago, Mazzspeed said: You mean the real version? The one that still looks good even today? Mods, what's it going to take to boot this troll ? 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 It's going to take a person clicking report post as they appear in the timeline of such comments throughout all the threads to show what and how this behavior manifests itself. Most mods only have time to see a portion and don't have context across the board adding all of the comments digs and manipulations up. The person(s) that do this skate across the line from time to time and knowingly promote or instigate according to their goal at the time. Because this isn't addressed, many people get sucked in and end up typing stuff out of frustration that costs them forum friends in response. This turns people off... not to mention when going back to read all of it... one might consider banning themselves for having said whatever in those times of passion and frustration. I sometimes think I would have banned myself during a few of these protracted and pointless response fests. Best to just remove the material and the perpetrator so others don't have to deal with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, rensoup said: Mods, what's it going to take to boot this troll ? I say let him have his day on this one, the Atari has so many better games and better graphics and better sound than the Apple II, we can let him have Apple II POP has the "real" POP. Karateka on the Atari still looks as good today too, on both the Apple and Atari, there are so many other games that the Apple II didn't get or it's lack of custom processors means piss-poor games when it comes to conversions to it from the Atari or C64. Edited August 13, 2021 by Gunstar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 1 hour ago, rensoup said: Mods, what's it going to take to boot this troll ? Don't spend an iota of time there... Just carry on. We already know what the Apple's version look like, the BBC-micro persian-carnival colors, and the fisher-price look of the C64 version. This is by far the finest, best-in-class 8-bit version of PoP we have seen so far! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 1 hour ago, rensoup said: I'd rather not start another argument... besides, the code to load the picture is already there. Did I start an argument? I'm asking why the limitation of using your specific converter? Loading code is the sole reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted August 14, 2021 Author Share Posted August 14, 2021 3 hours ago, Gunstar said: I say let him have his day on this one, the Atari has so many better games and better graphics and better sound than the Apple II, we can let him have Apple II POP has the "real" POP. he just posts craps that nobody wants to read... it's worse than an ad banner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted August 14, 2021 Author Share Posted August 14, 2021 2 hours ago, MrFish said: Did I start an argument? I'm asking why the limitation of using your specific converter? Loading code is the sole reason? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 19 hours ago, Mazzspeed said: You mean the real version? The one that still looks good even today? You mean that overpixellated fake high res. with artefacting color clash? Yeah, it might have looked good back then. Wait Apple 2 1977 , PoP 1989.... 12 years? What happened back then to have the game making such a success ? Did you check the level of other computers or even the Arcade machines of 1989? The Apple 2 original might shine by the fact that all in the game had been optimized and built to fit to the hardware limits of the computer. It's somehow similar to SID music. What did happen that so much people made it the ultimate music device? From a neutral point it isn't at all. Is it somehow the name ? Since it's a chip, it should have been named Sound Interface Chip. A Device points to a complete solution appliance. Seems the name has been used to point to "SIDdartha Gautama", people might have seen some "religious" point there? I never was a fan of the game. But to have this package available on the Atari, put the advantages of the Atari in, makes it a precious piece. I wonder, if your nagging refers to the fact that this type of look never will be able on the C64? Does it interfere with your "religious" views? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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